Weekly call about Karrot development 2024

Date: 2024-06-04 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Nathalie
Participants: Butze (left early), Jay, Nathalie, Bruno, David (later)

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: started later, to the hour 11 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Jay on holidays, back in a month (8th July)
      • Butze on a train next week Tuesday, will check connection
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working - yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nathalie

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • get feedback from others on the polls mockup [Bruno]
    • got feedback in karrot group
    • enable highlights in penpot, otherwise you might not find it
    • Jay will still give feedback
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

4. Discussion points

  • membership for butze process [D]

    • checking our agreement again
    • Karrot
    • Membership policy
    • reviewed qualities for members
    • Propsal: Grant membership to Butze (Philip)
    • Reactions
      • Bruno
        • qualities checked for Butze
        • sees natural to have Butze part of the team
      • Nathalie
        • fun to review the qualities
        • good to take the time
        • still wondering what his Karrot contribution will be in the future, beyond Phd
        • had a nice contribution with the hackaton for example
        • wonders which other Karrot work interests Butze, like design, legal entity,…?
        • happy to formalize membership
      • Jay
        • agree with points mentioned
        • work as cohesive group, help out each other
        • good comprehensive list of qualities
      • Butze
        • very high values to live up to
        • aware of qualities
        • happy to become a member, process started last year in august when I met Nick in Luxembourg
        • contributions: not too many conrete tasks, needs to find my place still
        • achieve new vision and mission for myself
        • make connections between academia and karrot
        • connection and networking, working with foodsharing e.V.
    • Consent
      • Bruno and Nathalie consent!
    • Next Steps
      • add Butze to people page [Nathalie]
      • add Jay’s membership to agenda soon
        • intention to join the team
        • how to do onboarding, who is bringing this to the agenda?
        • when is the time to formalise?
        • don’t see a reason to not put this in the agenda, trust the process
        • ok that it’s not defined
        • maybe after Jay is back, but she is happy for us to discuss this beforehand
          [Butze left]
  • mini updates [R]

    • mockup for polls ongoing
    • Nick working on plugins
  • moving tuesday meeting 30min later, start on 10:00 CEST

    • decided in chat
    • changed on karrot already
    • affirmed in the meeting
  • financial host

    • Proposal - HedgeDoc
    • proposal to apply to allforclimate fiscal host
    • start a legal entity on our own or apply for fiscal host
    • issue: getting the payments from nlnet, not wanting to use private bank accounts
    • legal entity also includes questions of governance
    • went through options on last coworking with Bruno and Nick
    • All for Climate: EU-based, low fee, aligned values
    • Proposal
      • Choose Fiscal Hosting over founding our own legal entity
      • Choose Allforclimate as the fiscal host we want to apply to
    • Questions & Reactions
      • Jay
        • Q: How do legal entity and fiscal host go together? could still found legal entity later and stopü using fiscal host
        • Q: which countriy for legal entity? proposal is not to found entity now, but we considered UK but also other european countries
        • it’s economically easy to found something in France
      • David
        • good experience with them
        • everything is transparent
        • people can earn money, upload bills and money got transfered within a few days
        • income/ outcome visible on website
        • documentation available
        • create invoices, accept donations
        • a lot of work is done by the platform
        • keep getting active without worrying about bureaocratic stuff
        • we don’t have a legal entity
      • Bruno
        • Q: Use All for climate when signing a contract? [my connection broke down]
        • Q: Do we need to be Freelancers to access money? Yes! Everyone is responsible for their own taxes in their countries
      • Nathalie
        • clarification: All for Climate is a fiscal host using Open Collective which is the transparent platform
        • I do like it!
    • Consent Round
      • Choose Fiscal Hosting over founding our own legal entity
        • no objections - consent!
      • Choose Allforclimate as the fiscal host we want to apply to
        • no objections - consent!
    • Next Steps
      • Apply to Allforclimate :slight_smile: [let’s do it in coworking]
  • budget [R]

    • is there a report on the budget?
    • is it only visible for members ofthe team?
      • Bruno
        • no formal budget so far
        • 3 sources od income: nlnet, projet in gothenburg, donations
        • common pot of money
        • support contributors livelyhood
        • we had money circles, notes are public
        • we define who is getting what in these meetings
        • initally idea of providing (limited) basic income
        • shifting towards money for time/ contribution recently
        • thinking about our personal needs still
      • Jay
        • Q: do you ever pay external people (not karrot team)? we’ve done that once or twice, proposal for a person to work on a feature
      • Nathalie
        • interesting discussion about reporting
        • that will be a good thing with fiscal host
        • last meeting about money May 14th
        • currently spending EUR 1130/month
        • using Nick’s account, only 3k left
        • not really planned, but aware
        • still need to plan
        • not much security in terms of long-term savings
        • still figuring out how we relate to Karrot in terms of income
    • question answered :slight_smile:
    • no sense of urgency on this
    • although money agreement is probably due to review some time soon

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue working on the mockup for polls [Bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • add Butze to people page [Nathalie]
  • Apply to Allforclimate :slight_smile: [let’s do it in coworking]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-06-11 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes:
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 1h
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Bruno traveling for a week
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working probably
      • next week yes!
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue working on the mockup for polls [Bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • add Butze to people page [Nathalie]
  • Apply to Allforclimate :slight_smile: [let’s do it in coworking]

4. Discussion points

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-06-18 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes:
Participants: Nick, Philip, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: up to the hour 11:00 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie: FOSC SOFA: restructuring of sofa, focusing on community of practise (meeting, talking about governance, open source, sociocracy, etc.)
        • next community of practise july 15th 17:00 CEST
        • could be a nice space for karrot people to join
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working tomorrow: nick, … maybe butze, maybe not
      • meeting next week:
      • co-working next week: heads up → all for climate onboarding call
    • pick facilitator for next week: maybe Nathalie

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates?
  • start review of money agreement
    • Karrot
    • 5 min to read through
    • round to share reflections
      • Butze:

        • a good general text, easy to comprehend for people in Karrot project or used to alternative circles
        • for people not in alternative circles, maybe hard to comprehend what it actually means, e.g. “what is the money circle?”
        • says describe an agreement for each contributor, but what would it look like? amount of money, could make it more tangible
        • in second paragraph there is an explanation of how we see money, would move that into the beginning, “How do we perceive money”, so add some headings, preface, process, how we get to outcomes. with the goal to help outsiders to understand it better
      • Nathalie:

        • I like it a lot
        • saw we made a few amendments from initial draft
        • feel like it makes sense
        • like this second paragraph, feels quite honest, e.g. within our financial capacities
        • two minor points:
          • practicalities of money circle, usually takes place in the weekly meeting, not after it
          • a bit more tangible about how we do things, could mention opencollective, e.g. “all money is collected by our fiscal host and visible on our opencollective”
            • like the sense we have one collection of money, and we had some confusion before about whether to have extra agreements
            • nice sense to collect all the money from all the sources (not thinking about who brought it in), and then redistributing it
        • agree with butze, as the agreement could just be amount of money
      • Nick:

        • likes it
        • balance between dreamy vision (working from our hearts) and lived realities, we touch both parts of that
        • broadly made sense to me
        • guideline: what do we mean by this, e.g. the 3 categories for contribution, we’re open to have discussion about others
        • guideline could mean different things to different people
        • external work not reflected here, difference between core work and ‘external’ work, nothing to add here, but reflecting that not all situation are covered (where there is an overlap in projects)
        • ‘in the meeting’ could just edit that
        • tangible is good, but could be prescriptive instead of descripive
        • example section could be nice, based on previous examples
        • once we get fiscal host, we can include it in there and link it
        • not about who brings it in, support making that explicit
        • adding headings, would be happy about this: ideoligical background, what we’ll discuss, facts/ how it happens, examples - but not too motivted to work on headings myself, as it’s not a very long text
      • Butze:

        • also stumbled on the word “guideline”, not sure a good other word
        • it also says “people who use Karrot”, so users of karrot could come and ask for money?
        • also don’t see the need to structure to the text, but would be happy to
      • Nathalie:

        • also not so motivated to structure the text with headlines, as it seems not too long
        • am motivated to add a sentence here or there:
          • opencollective
          • one money pot
          • and in the weekly meeting, not after
        • openness of money circle? didn’t advocate for it to be so open, but happy with it, currently we only give money to karrot team, open to some flexibility, in reality mostly people in karrot team
      • Nick:

        • openness, just leave it, but how do people know? they would need to be aware of it and somehow active
        • we did pay travel costs to karrot users, could be worth having a section, making it clearer for other people
      • next steps

        • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?)
  • stirtoaction festival?
    • Festival Tickets 2024
      • we would all like to go, looks nice
      • maybe next year find a festival and go there together
      • happy for Nick to go and we could support financially
      • how would karrot representation look like? e.g. chatting to people, connecting projects
      • proposal: Nick can buy a ticket with Karrot money for £90 and represent Karrot as well as do his own things there
        • Butze: I consent
        • Nathalie: I consent
        • Nick: I consent

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]

Date: 2024-06-25 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Bruno, Nathalie, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: up to 11 CEST, then check
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working - onboarding with allforclimate, and maybe co-working after: nathalie, bruno, nick
      • next week meeting: nick, bruno, nathalie
    • pick facilitator for next week: bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we don’t have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]

4. Discussion points

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

also soon

  • discuss MoU 5. Security & accessibility responsibilities and add to excalidraw
  • Karrot employment

Message from APC thing

Hi Dear @karrot
I’m working at apc.org, member of NGI0 consortium.
Next Generation Internet Zero | Association for Progressive Communications
You received and NGI0 commons grant. Congratulations!

I’d like to do an interview (8 to 10 questions, written asynchronously) and publish it on the APC website.
Would you agree?
If so, who should I write to to send these questions?

Looking forward to hearing from you

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]
  • follow up with APC [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-02 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Vasilis
Participants: Vasilis, Nathalie, Bruno, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: try for the hour
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • Nathalie, Bruno, Nick, (maybe) Vasilis
    • pick facilitator for next week: Vasilator

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • sign contract with allforclimate [all(forclimate)]

4. Discussion points

Next:

  • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate!

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]
  • follow up with APC [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-09 on Karrot
Facilitator: Vasilis
Minutes: Vasilis
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Bruno, Vasilis

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 11.30 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: Jay, Vasilis, Nathalie (maybe)
    • pick facilitator for next week:Jay

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates

    • allforclimate update? + more people join Karrot - Open Collective
    • idea is that all people sign up
    • sent of the signed thing, waiting for them to respond? Sent last week, we expect sth more or less at the end of July
  • NLNet updates

    • excalidraw we added some task (updates on it)
    • Excalidraw | Hand-drawn look & feel • Collaborative • Secure
    • very aware that the role desing process should start soon
    • finish the polls we d like to bring it in a meeting before it gets to development
    • for the roles. call a meeting…follow the design process, come up with a penpot, basically similarly to the polls (hosted by Nathalie)
    • keep in mind/updated with reality
    • some can progress when we got the fiscal host (no money on the account atm)
  • when Jay is back: Jay’s membership

    • Agreements: Member policy
    • §3 Becoming a Member paragraph
    • round of reactions:
      • Bruno: met her already and feels like she’s got the qualities for becoming a member. Saw a commitment and interest in cotributing mainly with development, but also with other tasks, would be interested to hear a bit more about how she sees her contributions in the future
      • Nathalie: a little ritual, meeting in person in Siegen helped me a lot, do see a lot of commitment, contribute, design process, there is a lot of things in favor of u also joining the team, one sense, hard to articulate: concern that engaging in a self-organised env might lead to overwhelm.
      • Vas: missed meeting in person, do see a good fit, beautiful to see Jay coming to the meetings, liked that Jay was sharing ideas already, good energy, likes to see team growing!
      • Nick:(re)echo, nice to build on the ‘in person’ base, enthusiasm is quite obvious and present, general in chatting, talking + Singing!!!, lots of ideas, bright thought, idea of having more ppl to develop (increased tech team) ‘I like that’ (Nick), learning the new tech we use, knowlegde sharing, space for learning within the self-organised, lack of urgency in Karrot, we dont have this ‘urgency’, its more present or slow or whatever is fitting, hope it feels that way as well, ‘slow spaciness’ can be nice and frustrating. A space to explore my experiences in siegen relating the situation with fslux
      • Jay: sorry have to be in and out of meetings, set time not compatible with my schedule. Fslux as one of the ‘users’ of Karrot, I m OK discussing about it. Overwhelm doesnt put pressure on me, had a positive experience, in general I have a positive experience, well organised but yet not so strict to stress me out, good match, from an idelogical, I want to be part of socially. How the process feels? It feels a bit stressful. ‘It is a bit like an interview’. My job is doing enough to cover my money needs atm.
    • consent round
      • Is everybody consenting:
        • Everyone consents: Bruno, Vasilis, Nick, Nathalie, Jay!!!
    • Welcome Jay
  • Local foodsharing Forbach possible cooperation

    • there is a group forming, got in touch with them, might help them out. I contacted them, they are on Karrot
    • Karrot
  • matt dowse proposal

    • centre for sociodigital futures (post-doc). Wrote me an email, ideas of trust. Community Econonomies, fancy working with me? workshop of paper,blog or seminar, invitation to explore that further, no big rush, away till end of July
    • this one → Matt Dowse — University of Bristol
    • reactions
      • Bruno is interested and curious, willing to chat
      • Nathalie good opportunity, I m not so interested in joining atm. Still vague but nice. Would ‘nominate’ Vas or Bruno to join if they like. How do u see the money involved?
      • Vas is happy to join/participate/chat/explore
      • Jay happy to join, interesting discussion that might come up
      • Nick: reply to Matt, propose an exploratory meeting, 1h or so and see where to go from there
      • If there is 250 a day, woulld like to participate as a team, a community in that way. Simpler to include that as pooled money
  • future meeting:

    • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval
    • money agreement review
    • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate!

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer)
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
  • open collective account [Jay, Vasilis]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-16 on Karrot
Facilitator: Jay
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Butze, Vasilis, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Butze, Vasilis
    • duration: 11.30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Butze away next 2 weeks
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Jay

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer, Jay)
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
  • make an open collective account [Jay, Vasilis, Butze]

4. Discussion points

  • report back on stirtoaction festival last week [Nick]
    • new economics festival
    • wrote a mastodon thread
    • intelectualised ways, expert on the stage
    • bettter to surface the wisdom in the room
    • managed to get play, rest
    • one of the structured sessions: ABCs of the new econommy, attend an annual EGM, join a committed role, middle role: listed 7 things, e.g. learning skills, sharing connections, contribute ideas, tell stories was quite a nice one, two ppl had interesting chats with, commons booking, curcilar economy urban project e.g. have a karrot instance, the other project was a shared economy project using open-collective, would be a while before Karrot would make sense for them, made me think of Karrot as a core that is supported by plugins/extention. A community around deaf users also connected to, eg a work on a join application funding platform to work on more tailor made features. Got some good ideas overall for Karrot
    • session on investing/funding: going down and gets harder and harder, everyone seems to ‘hate’ the whole thing, models outside waiting for the funding cow are important to find.
    • community tech session didnt engage much but nice ppl to talk to
    • question/reaction
      • onboard Jay how we seek out funding
      • commons booking, what did you mean?
      • go there as team next year?
        • could be nice, worth considering, could evaluate others
        • didn’t have camping this year
      • mapping out use cases was interesting to hear, likes to continue this conversation, outreach and strategy
      • work towards Karrot strategy days
  • money agreement review
    • text with amendments: HedgeDoc - Collaborative markdown notes
    • talked about it on 2024-06-18 meeting: Weekly call about Karrot development 2024 - #25 by nicksellen
    • Review text
    • Reactions
      • like it how it is, wait until it’s true as we’re still in process with all for climate
      • Open Collective
      • get rid of ‘in the sense of redistribution’
      • not very clear what is meant by decouple income generation and receiving money
      • happy with text
      • ‘however we recognize…’ not logically coherent, conclusion that is drawn
      • common pot aplies to funding, some do more fundign oriented work that other and therefore ‘generate’ more income
      • not sure about ‘decoupling’, is it clear for outsider?
      • confused about categories of contribution, is it for Karrot members or outside contributors? Is there no fixed salary?
      • Alternative wording of redistribution sentence
      • 3 categories: paragraph above has the relevant information, doesn’t only refer to Karrot team, problem of guidelines, happy to get rid of it if it’s adding confusion, it is not a boundary, emphasis on discussion part
      • monthy or task based compensation, not categorise contributors
      • not speak about ‘3 categories’ but ‘ways of contributing’ instead of putting a number
      • don’t see myself in any category
      • process question: consent to written proposals, continue rewriting other parts, iterative approach
    • Proposal:
      • Adopt new version of agreement with a term of 1 year.
      • Bring back proposal after tomorrow’s co-working
      • Add current changes in bold
    • Consent round
      • Objection: 'we aim to distribute the money fairly ': unclear what fairly means, it is vague and doesn’t reflect what we mean
      • Proposal: Agree on everything else and leave this part (2nd paragraph) to coworking session
      • Consent!
    • Next steps
      • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
  • report from FOSC Community of Practice [Vas]
    • good meeting, 7-8 people, 3 people from SoFA, others from other projects (US, Poland)
    • skipped bureacratic parts e.g. SoFA membership to join
    • getting to know each other, some started implementing socicoracy
    • made a list of topics for the future
    • meet once a month
    • very grounded, different ideas
    • interested to think about fluctuating participation, how could sociocracy work there
    • not only focused on decision making but building relationship, sharing emotions
    • shared values implicit in open-source and sociocracy
    • bringing open-source to sociocracy and vice versa
    • notes: FOSC Community of Practice notes - Google Docs

future meetings:

  • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval [Bruno]
  • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate! [Nathalie]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer, Jay)
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
  • make an open collective account [Jay, Vasilis, Butze]
  • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-23 on Karrot
Facilitator: Jay
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Bruno, Vasilis

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: Nick, Jay, Bruno
    • pick facilitator for next week: Jay

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • done
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer, Jay)
    • Vasilis, Jay joined; Butze not yet
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
    • done
  • make an open collective account [Jay, Vasilis, Butze]
    • redundant
  • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
    • to do
  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]
    • to do

4. Discussion points

  • mini-updates
    • we got a fiscal host! :tada:
    • work on group switcher mobile
  • money topics
    • transfer last of existing money to OC
      • one time donation
      • 439,81 EUR
    • do first nlnet RFP?
      • ready to do first rfp payment, to private, then OC
    • essen fur alle regular donation
      • make a test donation and check how it works
    • think about future of opencollective usage
      • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
      • include link, or more inside Karrot?
      • deeper integration?
  • meeting with matt dowse
    • interview with Nick (Commmunuty Tech, sociodigital fututures)
    • back and forth discussions to collaborate
    • paperblog/seminar
    • trust was the central topic interested in
      • exploratory call online with Karrot-team
      • cc Martin Parker to be in the loop
    • expressed personal interest ‘out of the papers and to the hands of actual communities’
    • writing to vas and butze to ask for some references for papers for the issue of trust
    • how it connects with real-world trust
    • matt dowse initially wrote:
      • “Specifically, I’m thinking about the idea of trust and how trust is built through community technology practices and processes – both in the ways that organising in this space is constituted and broadly governed (alt models etc) and how these practices can form particular kinds of trust (and vulnerability) and what this means to how community technology might be imagined in the future as a trust making practice…… In part, this links to some of the community economies summer school work that I’ve been working on in that I think that trust has the potential to sensitize us to some of the invisible practices that make up community tech practice and which might be generative to future thinking about community tech and what it does/can could do (in opposition to some of the more damaging effects and or practices of more capitalist forms of tech practice).”
    • not much research around trust which is not transactional (reviews, star systems), different forms of trust e.g. trusting someone to hold a role, relational form of trust is build gradually, some papers on relations trust, but not much how technology can mediate this (related to HCI)
    • different faces: trust people, trust mission, trust culture, trust platform as a software, trust towards an instance admin, trust to be solid
    • needs to think more about the conection of trust, roles and selection processes, also looking at our next Dsign Process for Roles
    • is trust-building a fundamantally non-technologial process? How much can technology really do?
    • sociocracy supports trust-building and psychologival safety in circles/ small groups
    • Who is interested to join an inital call with Matt?
      • Jay, Vas, Bruno, Nick
      • how to find a date?
    • take some time beforehand and use a co-working to collect trust related topics
      • could do it or do it together with Matt
    • Proposal
      • Ask Matt if they have an agenda and plan for the meeting, propose to use co-working time (August 7th)
      • Jay, Vas, Bruno and Nick will take part
      • continue in co-working
  • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate! [Nathalie]

future meeting:

  • Open Collective account
    • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
    • include link, or more inside Karrot?
    • deeper integration?
  • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval [Bruno]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]
  • transfer over last of funds to OC [Nick]
  • do an RFP [Nick]
  • share papers on relational trust in karrot group [Vas]
  • continue conversation on meeting with Matt (trust topic) [Jay, Nick, Bruno, Vas]
  • open a topic on the forum (board) around people page link [Jay]
  • review #2733 - change_about - karrot/karrot-frontend - Codeberg.org and merge if OK [Nick]
  • replace list of ideas with ‘keep’ section [Nathalie]
  • bring to forum
    • if there are shared resources in a group = commons (e.g. a cargo bike) can this be supported by karrot. e.g. a feature for shared items? [Nathalie]
    • agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-30 on Karrot
Facilitator: Jay
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Jay, Nathalie, Bruno, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CEST or finish earlier
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie away end of August, will miss 20th/27th calls probably
      • Nick away next week Tuesday/Wednesday
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working:
      • co-working: Nick, Bruno, Nathalie, maybe Jay
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

4. Discussion Points

  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]
    • Editing Proposal
    • manifesting transactional money transfer
    • maybe rather soften it
    • add hourly payments
    • new proposal is more formal, job-like
    • “retribution” terminology confusing, could mean punishment
    • some confusion/overwhelm about all the details
    • leaning towards the option of leaving it completely
    • although can be useful to have examples of how we can make money flow, e.g. some monthly, some time based, some task based
    • would be against getting rid of it entirely, as would lose information
    • getting rid of it? in law there is an agreement and a guidance document, maybe that’s what we need here. Guidance document can be more wordy and doesn’t need to be on a level of agreement
    • how to onboard people to a new money paradigm
    • process is conversation based, this seems to be the essance
    • additional advice document could have more help with examples and link
    • Next steps
      • put proposal in forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
      • continue as slow conversation, no decision now
  • mini-updates?

  • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval [Bruno]

    • Penpot - Design Freedom for Teams
    • would definately have more questions to solve along the way
    • walk-through from Bruno
      • discussed many settings, here included
        • “Allow multiple answers”
        • “Anonymous”
        • Who can participate (by role)
      • shows up as part of the wall
      • shows the poll settings
      • a thread for discussion
      • no time bounds for now (same as discourse)
      • can see results before voting
      • can delete vote
    • review thread with feedback on Karrot group
    • forum thread (without discussion)
    • feedback/questions
      • very nice :slight_smile:
      • having a menu entry on left to show all polls in group?
        • put it in mental checklist, it evaporated
        • would be nice to have a place to share the polls, wondered about the size of the menu…
        • maybe a redesign of main menu…
        • easiest solution would be add another item
      • also likes it, straight-forward
      • there will be more requests in the future and we can keep impoving it
      • time-bounds came up quickly in feedback round e.g. useful for Warsaw group
      • adding bonus features while developing
      • core features and bonus feature list for development
      • get everything on forum thread (see outcome)
      • how does it relate to agreements, membership reviews
      • also relates to menu: governance, coordiantion, communication
      • Proposal:
        • take this as core feature for polls
      • Reactions
        • looks good as a must-have
        • nothing more to add
        • makes sense, well defined
      • no objections raised
      • plan to move forward? Bruno document and summarise on forum, could request nlnet money (Bruno) and then do bank paymet to oc, Nick could start working on it in a couple of weeks
  • co-op cloud payment

    • we agreed 60EUR/year
    • The Co-operative Cloud - Open Collective has a 108GBP predefined one
    • we could choose either amount, but I propose we do 108GBP one
    • also, looks like it’s only set up for card payment or UK direct debit payment
    • Proposal: Pay 108GBP instead 60€/year.
    • Question and Reaction
      • Q: What do we do if we run out of money?
      • feel quite opposed, it’s double the amount, and if it’s only because they don’t have the option, doesn’t seem enough reason, not sure if I actually want to object, but want to raise it, we don’t have tonnes of money, unclear, might let it pass
      • wonder why they have such a different amount?
    • Operational part of doing payments
      • think there might be another way how to do it… not sure if it is better
        • went back to allforclimate notes, could go to karrot page, submit an expense request, then could choose an organisation, then would require them to send us an invoice, not sure which way makes more sense
        • can explore it more in co-working
        • this option makes more sense, not going through personal bank accounts, would like to see money flowing through collectives and organisations
    • Proposal: Willing to pay 108GBP/year, pending the exploration of payment options.
    • Consent round
      • Bruno: Object: Request Coop-Cloud to be consistent
      • Nathalie: consent
      • Jay: consent
      • Nick: consent
    • Proposal: Willing to pay 108GBP/year, pending the exploration of payment options and request Coop-Cloud to be consistent
      • all consent :partying_face:
  • Open Collective account

    • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
    • include link, or more inside Karrot?
    • deeper integration?

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • continue conversation on meeting with Matt (trust topic) [Jay, Nick, Bruno, Vas]
  • agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software [Nathalie]
    * not yet
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
  • move/summarize the discussion on polls from the Karrot group to the forum and announce on the thread the decision [Bruno]
  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
  • exploration of payment options in opencollective re: co-op cloud [Nathalie, and others]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-08-06 on Karrot
Facilitator: Vas
Minutes: all
Participants: Vas, Bruno, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CEST or maybe finish earlier
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Bruno away next week
      • Nathalie away 19-30 August
      • Vas submitted application on gig economy
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: nathalie, bruno, vas
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nathalie

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • continue conversation on meeting with Matt (trust topic) [Jay, Nick, Bruno, Vas]
    • provisional call on the 14th of August 9am UK time
  • put on forum/ board: agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software [Nathalie]
    • not yet
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
    • not yet
  • move/summarize the discussion on polls from the Karrot group to the forum and announce on the thread the decision [Bruno]
  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • tomorrow
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
  • exploration of payment options in opencollective re: co-op cloud [Nathalie, and others]

4. Discussion Points

  • agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software

    • main point is making implicit choices more explicit
    • sth like ‘terms of agreement’, not in legal terms but more
    • sometimes groups are a bit unware of how to use features
    • bruno
      • makes sense, we ve seen group’s having confusions with karrot-trust system, I think it would be nice to have some default agreements, how it works on karrot, not trying to impose but making clear that with some aspects, the have to live with
      • try to list what these things are (e.g. membership review process, editor roles, trust karrots)
    • vas
      • default agreement or manual?
      • example of a group that bypassed the trust system and created an admin
      • people tend to use Karrot in their ways, like carrots as likes
      • tend towards making it as a list of things to make it clear, but hard to impose them to people, because they will bypass
      • makes sense to have a forum post to discuss it and have different views
      • sees the potential of getting people to use and think about agreements as a feature
    • bruno
      • having default agreements is a way to nudge, make it more visible
      • groups can then change that agreement if they want to use Karrot in another way it was intended
    • stays in the ideas section for now and we link the notes that we have started the disc already on that
  • Open Collective account

    • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
      • in the contribute section what tiers we can have
      • happy to remove the default options and leave one-time donation
    • include link, or more inside Karrot?
      • when do we make it really public?
      • make a banner?
    • deeper integration?
      • I d put that more into the future as a question [nathalie]
    • do we want to promote our open collective account?
    • question for essen fur alles for example?
      • not sure yet to contact them
      • feels like it is still an exploring phase
      • wonder if nlnet will be happy with the way the payment was handled on opencollective (nathalie)
      • I was also bit surprised (Bruno)
      • also checked opencollective today and are assuming Nick was in touch with nlnet (vas)
      • slightly dissappointment that money still needs to flow through us e.g. with the coop-cloud payment (vas)
      • how easy or unconvenient
      • ent would it be for them, seems like a good case
      • need to explore more, what are good/ bad sides
    • go ahead and use opencollective as our accounting tool, but be a bit catious and still see this as an experiment
    • also on bigger scale, for which groups does opencollective make sense?
    • being more action oriented
      • remove default options for donations
      • include link on forum
      • explore deeper integration further
        • for example groups having their own open-collective account
      • ask Essen für Alle for feedback and explore together
    • make account visible but not advocate heavily
    • stripe fees: e.g. Monthly financial contribution to Karrot · Contribution #777923 - Open Collective
      • a lot of monthly donations come with a lot of fees
      • yearly payments are better for fees
    • next step
      • work on more concrete proposal
  • karrot emails, making you aware of incoming emails

    • look into the inbox :slight_smile:
    • Bruno, Nathalie didn’t get email notifaction, they usually only receive spam

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • tomorrow
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
    • not yet
  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
    • report back next week
  • Default Agreements: stays in the ideas section for now and we link the notes that we have started the disc already on that [Natalie]
  • remove the default options on opencollective [vas]
  • check last email convo between Nick and foodsharing Warsaw [vas and the rest]
  • check opencollective and relevant discussion here and come up with a proposal and check convos on funding place on our Karrot group [vas]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-08-13
Facilitator: Vas
Minutes: vas & others
Participants: nick, jay, nathalie, butze, vas

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
      • duration: 11.30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • yesterday was open source sociocracy for all community of practise session
        • was a nice conversation with 6-7 people
        • minutes on google drive
        • selected a topic: circle structures
        • discussed about dividing into subcircles
        • conversation about how to apply in bigger engineering department
        • reflected about tech circle conversation within karrot
        • doesn’t seem we operate open source-y, with random contributors
        • … what are these open source norms? are we playing by them? or do we question them? are they sociocratic?
        • might change at some point to be sofa members to join
      • shared futures conversation carries on (interoperate with Karrot?)
      • https://kin.coop/ nudging them to build ‘on’ Karrot rather than build sth from scratch
        • met in neweconomy conf, mutual money-funding, pool their money together, could be a good fit for a karrot plugin
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: nick will try, maybe jay, vas will try but most probs late, nathalie, philip will try
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • nick sent bruno the link
    • brunos rfp not yet done
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
    • did that request
    • proposed to have a flexible contribution
    • bumped (nudged) the topic in the co-op cloud chat
  • Default Agreements: stays in the ideas section for now and we link the notes that we have started the disc already on that [Nathalie]
  • remove the default options on opencollective [vas]
    • done! just one option now, flexible one-time or recurring donation
  • check last email convo between Nick and foodsharing Warsaw [vas and the rest]
    • some people read it, and updated people at last co-working, and up for discussion today
  • check opencollective and relevant discussion here and come up with a proposal and check convos on funding place on our Karrot group [vas]
    • hopefully continue on coworking tomorrow, and explore what we might be able to do, to link opencollective with karrot a bit more

4. Discussion Points

  • mini updates
    • received first nlnet money :partying_face:
      • donate from personal to opencollective
      • needs manual process, financial admin
      • choose where u are donating from
      • select karrot org or other org
    • nlnet account on opencollective?
      • linked nlnet
      • should nlnet be aware of that?
        • know that other projects created phantom orgs for payment
        • would need to revisit emails for exact info around this
      • donation from personal account to karrot?
        • two donations chain
        • personal to karrot,
        • everyone responsible for own taxes
    • donation from personal to opencollective?
  • how to access email? [Jay]
    • we have an email integration with the forum
  • warsaw situation [nick + everyone else who read through]
    • starting thing with one person from Warsaw, years going back having chats with them, was a hectic time for me, had minimal timme to think or reflect, my sense was that harm was perpetrated in the immediate situation, someone stalking another person
    • decided to cc info@karrot.world
    • to trace the whole thing you need to expand the converstaion (3 dots)
    • block access to this guy, built in to django
    • was voted out already
    • allegation was that he was accessing private info, so there was a bit of panick about data security, gdpr,
    • I was then also accessing this situation from a technincal angle
    • there seemsm to be a bug: not meant to open ones prof if u are not in the same group
      • but this is not true
    • I suspended that user
    • decided that we cant wait around to discuss and that there was a need for more immediate action
    • they were sort of loosing trust on karrot but they were content/happy that we acted ]
    • same person started using FB afterwards where we cannot do much
    • protection mechanisms as a community and a team that can be more effective to more fixed, bureaucratic security mechanisms
    • feels a bit messy and i have a strong belief that we can put sth forward
    • round:
      • was good to take pre-cautionary action to restrict the user
      • would be interesting to investigate what triggered all that
      • previously would have argued to never exclude anyone, but after 12 years of these movements, realise limitations on resources/capacity to deal with situations in depth
      • wondering what the terms for suspending someone from an instance
      • wondering what happens if they created a new group
    • questions:
      • did it happen before to block someone from a whole instance? did we do it? group level vs instance level
        • no
      • our job is walking the tightrope between ‘it there business’ and ‘we ll do everything to heal your pain/trauma’
      • with having the technical power commes with the responsibility
      • not using the power can be as active as not using it

future meeting:

  • discuss the approach for adding nlnet money to karrot opencollective

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • nick sent bruno the link
  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • confirm 9am tomorrow morning with matt dowse [Nick]
  • invite philip to opencollective [vas]
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]
  • ensure all karrot team people are in all the admin-related groups on the forum [Nathalie]
  • reply to Karolina [nick]
  • reply to Zbigniew [jay]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-08-20 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: vas & others
Participants: nick, jay, bruno, vas, butze

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
      • duration: 11.30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • vasilis: got some money for par-courier (parcour + courier) - critique of dark side of gig economy, 1 month of research to find out The Thing, and if there is potential, 2000EUR :moneybag::moneybag::moneybag:
        • going to poke philip for it
      • nick: sharedfutures, want to exlore the relationship with Karrot
      • jay: foodsharing luxembourg Bonnevoie fridge is gone :disappointed_relieved:
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: nick, vas, jay, bruno
    • pick facilitator for next week: bruno!!

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • nick sent bruno the link
    • doing it in next co-working
  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • invite philip to opencollective [vas]
    • invite is pending
    • done!
  • confirm 9am tomorrow morning with matt dowse [Nick]
    • done, meeting had
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]
    • has done some exploration, might continue in co-working, and share next week
  • ensure all karrot team people are in all the admin-related groups on the forum [Nathalie]
    • done
  • reply to Karolina [nick]
    • done
  • reply to Zbigniew [jay]
    • done

4. Discussion Points

  • warsaw situation
    • updating Bruno on where to find the threads
    • https://community.karrot.world/t/situation-in-foodsharing-warsaw/1782
    • try and make a proper decision on how we deal with the situation
    • manual database action in the past we came up with a new agreement
    • not clear what we re doing now
    • suggestion: get a proposal to or see how it goes
    • reflections/clarifications (not specific suggestions yet maybe)
    • user profile access, #1302 - Only allow profile access via applications for pending applications - karrot/karrot-backend - Codeberg.org
    • Bruno: read emails, got some understanding, came across the forum post questioning the decision, set a boundaries between responsibilities, karrot-team vs karrot groups, where our responsibility lies?
    • Vas:
      • the way nick acted was meaningful and happy he acted this way
      • consideration is whether we should make it more legit, not just trusting individual people in groups
      • so maybe like we did before with modifying the database, do something that is more official, e.g. signed by three people, so we don’t have to reinvent the wheel every time, we need adapations
      • yes we trust individuals, but there might be the case someone comes along we don’t know in person
      • I get the question, where our responsiblities start and end? how to make separation between karrot as a platform and karrot groups… stepping in is showing solidarity to the people that got harrassed or stalked, also thinking about the conflict in solikyl, and information sharing… maybe a bigger discussion about how groups accept new members, groups are the ones to decide who is in group
      • one idea: come up with something less personalised, that doesn’t depend on knowing someone in the group we trust
      • second idea: how do we communicate with groups? e.g with lund assuming “everyone is a sweetheart” is not always true… how can we refer to cases we know of in the past, e.g. let people know there might be difficulties that come up, and that they have to take responsiblities and be proactive
    • Jay:
      • could talk about it for an hour :slight_smile:
      • mentions of sharing private information, menacing, turning up to foodsharing collection points, the person denied using private information, but did not deny turning up to uninvited events (so more likely to be true)
      • did not use information to menace information, but used it to let them know their data could be exposed, so would refrain from that accusation. claims he was the first person to mention that data was exposed.
      • agree with vas, we should document how we handle these kind of conflicts, so we can refer to it in the future, and justify our actions, so people can feel more fairly treated, accessible to everyone, and policies we are coherent with
      • brought up to many issues that would be interesting to discuss, you can find my comments in forum if you want to engage with that
      • q: person was trying to show data was exposed within group? he says thanks to him they changed a way they published data within the group, hard to understand (language reasons perhaps). someone from the trust group resigned throughout the process, perhaps because they didn’t agree with how the process unfolded (not clear though)
    • bruno q:
      • they were removed by the membership review process by the time nick acted. yes.
      • any idea why he wanted to still be a member? not clear… curious. doesn’t seem to want to let it go. purpose is not clear.
    • butze
      • really like that you people engage so much and care so much, I admit I can’t at the moment
      • was never too much interested in the individual situations, but looked at the big picture, I know not 100% cool, but ok…
      • not so engaged, do appreciate your efforts
    • nick:
      • happy to do sensemaking together
      • agree with what has been said
      • considersation of our situation within our existing agreement
      • evaluate existing agreement
      • or a new agreement to cover what we can cover with this scenario
      • wonder if we can do it effectively and prior wisdom
      • anyone wanats to take a lead on that?
    • bruno:
      • we’re not going to come up with a policy right now, also aware of time it might take
      • don’t think it’s that urgent, can start the discussion now and reflect on it
      • maybe not needed for this specific case
      • suggest we make a decision for this specific case
      • separating responsiblities of karrot responsiblity vs group responsiblity
      • consider the group sovreign, and they’ve made a decision, it might be the group is skewed and not operating well, but I don’t know, and as a team we don’t know, and don’t need to know, might be interesting to know from a design perspective in the future, to build healthier groups, but not for the merits of this case
      • for us, knowing that group has done a membership review process and the person got excluded
      • what is relevant for karrot as a team/instance is visiblity of information on profiles, we can work on that, the action taken by nick was justified so that a person that is not supposed to have access to that information does not (which might have been because of the bug).
      • group expressed a wish
      • now coming to a proposal: we excluded you from the instance on those grounds so you would not have access (due to bug), can thank them, if they want to continue using karrot without another profile that’s ok, proposal for this specific decision
      • and the rest of the topics are for the group to consider
      • probably won’t have a decision now for a policy
    • vas:
      • quite some time since I saw bruno having so much energy and clarity, happy to see it :partying_face:
      • clarifying question, what is current situation? expecting there might be more content from him, but not really open question. gave him a chance to clarify himself
      • bruno covered everything I had in mind. accepting groups have their own responsiblity.
      • good news a bug was brought up.
      • one idea: in co-working, check the agreement we have already, try and think how the way acted could fit in the agreement we have already, on which grounds can be justified, and how could we enrich the agreement we have
      • as a light proposal: would it make sense to link the agreement in the membership review process, as a hard coded thing… so there is a wider agreement in place from the karrot team/instance. leaning towards what bruno and jay implied, that this person should be allowed to write a new profile, and it’s on whichever group they join to assess the application
    • jay:
      • if nobody takes the lead, I wouldn’t mind
      • I think we should fix the data leak bug, and maybe add a profile description length limit
      • after fixing those, could contact him, and restore his current account
      • free to create own groups/communities with people that support him, don’t need to going into space of others
      • thank him for the bug
      • we can better think how our features affect power related conflicts in local communities, try our best to give good frameworks to avoid these conflicts in the future
      • only concrete action is fixing the bugs, we’ll do before writing or reactiviting account
      • hopefully that’ll be a satisfying result
    • nick:
      • like the idea to seperate what we do with the specific case with ongoing thing
      • fix the data access bug
    • proposal [consent achieved]:
      • Fix data bug
      • Fix profile length
      • Once those are done and deployed, restore his existing account
      • consent round
        • bruno: consent (hhappy to leave comms to jay)
        • vas: consent (agree with bruno)
        • jay: consent
        • nick: consent

Jay’s proposal:

Fix data bug
Fix profile leghth

Once those are done and deployed, restore his existing account.

Encourage him to move on from the group. Make clear we are not the judge of what happened between him and FS Warsaw
He can still be active and still create his own group

Thank him for
- bringing up the bug on data leaking
- the theme of power dynamics in local group and say we will commit to improve our framework to better avoid power-related conflicts in local communities

future meetings:

  • matt update
  • discuss the approach for adding nlnet money to karrot opencollective
  • nlnet milestones/pace/etc.
  • Long messages in german on community forum… what are they [jay]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-08-27 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: vas & others
Participants: nick, jay, bruno, vas, butze

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
      • duration: 11.00 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • vas not sure about tomorrow. Not there next week, will be coordinating degrowth/post-growth school
      • jay harder to be in the coworking from now on but will try to figure out
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working:
      • most probs vas, jay, bruno wont make it tomorrow 28/08
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]
    • see discussion points
  • review agreement on database interventions [vas]
    • see discussion
  • push forward with deploying profile access fix [nick]

4. Discussion Points

  • matt dowse update?
    • suggested 31st october → 1st november for meeting in Bristol
    • we didn’t fix it yet
    • fix date first and care about logistics after
    • bruno cannot be sure yet if can join, happy to fix the dates
    • jay would like to make some time and will try and make it work
    • vas will also try to cover some expenses through his uni
    • book some extra days for hanging around together
  • nlnet milestones/pace/etc.
    • Excalidraw | Hand-drawn look & feel • Collaborative • Secure
    • anxious/worried withought furthering the project, delivering stuff, balance feels more to ‘other stuff’ and not to actually making things that someone is using.
    • clearer flow of things getting in the pipeline and becoming tasks
    • Vas: was concentrated on ph.d. therefore was not really engaged. after 11th of octorber Vas can hopefully make more time available and contribute. hears Nick’s ‘fear’
    • jay: more focus on tasks, will work it out regarding co-working as Jay goes to a new office and hard to be in co-working session
    • butze:reminded of ‘to much talking little is done’ from days in community garden. Need to engage more on that. Task will be to engage more with the platfrom itself. I head what nick is saying, we need to focus more on tasks
    • bruno: will focus on roles and sanctions, will work with Nathalie on roles who is coming back next week, work on documentation for polls, one strategy would support Nick more as has a lot of tasks on his shoulders to avoid a bottleneck situation
    • nick: dont want to fall in urgency/productivity culture. avoid feeling the whip productivity, I think we are doing well so far, implementing polls I think we can move on to that. trying get more strict using co-working for development
    • jay: how the whole procedure works? excalidraw is broken down to NLnet taks, money amounts are connected with funding applications, using into the normal Karrot system, goes to the shared pot, Jay’s task doesnt need to go to the excalidraw but they go to the board (on the forum). Money agreement is indipendent to the money agreement.
    • money distribtion agreement, no money distribution by task, money goes to karrot pot, internaly when you choose whatever task, it doesnt matter, no task is connected to money
    • vasilis and jay want to get involved in the design process of both roles and sanctions (important to check with Nathalie first)
  • discuss the approach for adding nlnet money to karrot opencollective
    • mentioned that I ve seen others doing that on opencollective and they mentioned that they were not in charge of that but they implied that is not sth they are against to
    • nlnet is more transparent, second option is ingognito, 3rd the personal one which is not
    • bruno: would prefer doing the Nlnet, maybe a suggestion would be to add a disclaimer on the prof of the organisation, created by karrot-team for the sake of transprency
    • jay: Nlnet option with a disclaimer sounds reasonable
    • vas: don’t like the idea of a disclaimer. Maybe write back to Nlnet and ask if they’re ok
    • nick: asking them is a good idea, worth getting nathaliea input since nathalie raised this point
    • wait for answers until we do any further transfer of money
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]
    • keep it on the side for now?
    • wait until community support software
    • middle way - in the about/info page, add a new icon for “funding” or something, and an extra tab/section/page
      • shows us (karrot team)
      • short text explaining why we have a fiscal host and what it is
      • refer to needs-based system for money-distribution
      • link to open collective
    • make it more prominent in the future once we have a clearer community supported software model
    • Jay: is ok with what Vas suggested
    • nick: makes sense to have it to middle way is sth that can be done, makes a step towards there (CSS), for Essen Fur Alle we decided to keep the wise account for now
    • bruno: trying to visualise how we ll have sth in place in the about page, woudnt seem to accesisive to add sth more, pull sth together to have a more comprehensive page, how its funded, who is behind it, a donate button?, as simple as that? lead to the opencollective page, where we can add some explanation on how funding works, more simple solution
    • important to make it visible how we work regarding money and funding
    • reminder that we don’t add loads of text because of translation. What should be translated?
    • could be possible to use the description on Open Collective to describe how it works on Karrot, and connect that to Karrot
    • to be continued…
  • Long messages in german on community forum… what are they [jay]
    • it’s spam
    • we could set up a spam protection
    • let’s help each other out deleting it

next week:

  • money circle
    • clarity about our agreement
    • payments now that we changed accounts
  • database interventions [vas]
    • checking agreement we already have about removing people from groups, and see how it relates to last situation
  • Butze’s proposed time change for co-working (Jay is also interested)
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance)

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • check Wise account to receive Nlnet’s money [Bruno]
  • push forward with deploying profile access fix [nick]
  • confirm dates with Matt [Vas]
  • coordinate with Nathalie about design processes [Bruno]
  • check with nathalie about NLnet opencollective [vas]
  • write to NLnet about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-09-03 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: bruno et al.
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: up to 11:30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • nick: had a chat with Peter from Shared Futures. Nick might have a consultant role. Been arguing to turn the codebase to Karrot.
      • bruno: starting research assistant position next week on wednesday (probably, not quite defined yet, but won’t be there next wednesday)
        • research is for a project called “circular grassroots”, in different cities, and working on the part in gothenburg, looking at grassroots initiatives here, collecting data - about value created by these initiatives, using qualatatatatative and quantitatatatatative approaches
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working:
      • co-working wednesday: nick, nathalie, bruno
      • next week meeting: nick, …
    • pick facilitator for next week: bruno (backup…)

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • check Wise account to receive Nlnet’s money [Bruno]
    • done
    • extra check, money is in account (personal)
    • transfer money?
  • push forward with deploying profile access fix [nick]
    • nope
  • confirm dates with Matt [Vas]
    • nope
  • coordinate with Nathalie about design processes [Bruno]
    • wrote message, on discussion points for today
  • check with nathalie about NLnet opencollective [vas]
    • nope
    • put on agenda for today…
  • write to NLnet about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]
    • nope

4. Discussion Points

  • mini updates
    • deployment of profile viewing
    • ongoing options work…
    • profile length limit?
  • money circle
    • clarity about our agreement
    • payments now that we changed accounts
    • round to get clarity on what we’re doing right now
      • bruno:
        • nice to settle into a new routine / way of operating
        • personally have to figure out payment logistics, e.g. freelance business
        • no pressing need right now, so chill :sunglasses:, happy to hear from people if current flow of holding payments works
        • could discuss amounts
      • nathalie:
        • situation hasn’t changed, no other income source, karrot, SoFa, and potential self-employment sources, also in social support system
        • increasing earnings, reduces social support, excluding a threshold
        • more secure/at ease earning some money
        • had an assumption we stopped doing payments, but agreement is still valid, is it true? do we re-negotiate from new? how do we count for previous months
        • agrement was 200/month, if it’s still valid but no payments, balance of 800, but seems a lot, do we pay? or new agreement? (losing a bit in the middle)
        • could agree today on some number, and do some payments, doing it in september would be nice
        • doing 6 month period forecasts, so wondering how to deal with it
        • don’t have strong feelings to holding of payments to combine them, easy enough when one person does it, but could get complicated
        • personal responsiblity to managing money, so maybe keeping track of build-up
      • nick:
        • getting clarity and whatever new/old agreement is
        • operational questions towards money flow
        • agreement what we distribute
        • add-up payments in between? but not have that money
        • do I feel justified to take higher amount?
        • have a negotiation about the last period
        • do the calculations
        • one-off decision for past bits, decide on amounts going forward
        • only 3 of us here, Vas receiving money in the past
        • proposal to get back to the next meeting
    • check OC balance + calculate missing months
      • OC: 1,934.41 (+ 1,500 on its way)
        • 3434.41
      • not including September
      • Bruno from April onwards (to August = 1000EUR)
      • Nathalie May to August (4 months): 200EUR * 4 = 800€
      • Nick: July & August missing 500€ * 2 = 1000€
      • Vas: July & August missing 230€ * 2 = 460€
      • 3260€ total - we have all the money, once bruno transfers
    • decide on whether payments have been building up and how to manage them
      • bruno:
        • would be right to assume payments have been building up, no change in the agreement itself, don’t recall any change, so logical to assume they have been building up
        • also nice opportunity to check and make it clear, is it a nice way to operate, do we want it? could make confusion
        • no suggestions for the future
      • nathalie:
        • assumption it was building up, … didn’t think about it a lot
        • when starting thinking, it wasn’t that clear…
        • is it a mode of operating we enjoy
        • if we didn’t have money coming, assumption might have been payment stops because we have no money… but we do have a source
        • how do we make sure there is a source?
        • did notice, I’d like that money, feeling low, feels appropriate amount, would like that
      • nick:
        • notice it was unclear
        • appreciate that Karrot does not shut down when money stops, the maleability of the project
        • I’d really value receiving money. Boat’s expensive!
        • only income for now
        • didn’t change the agreement so we continue with it
        • I’d be happy havnig less money but that’s for one month of less work only
      • proposal: keep to agreement and money did accrue
        • passed by nick, bruno, and nathalie :partying_face:
    • decide on operational part
      • review last weeks discussion
        • Weekly call about Karrot development 2024 - #34 by Vasilis_Ntouros
        • nathalie:
          • looks a bit suspicious nlnet having the logo, etc. but not being nlnet, and bruno/vas agreed with that sense
          • like both approaches, talking to nlnet, making sure it’s ok
          • curious why vas wasn’t in favour of the disclaimer
          • could name it “nlnet to karrot”, or write something in the description
          • understand how it’s nicer on our profile to show it’s from nlnet
          • neither personal or incognito is exactly right
          • wondering if you can change the name of a money “subject” - always says “financial contribution to” (or whatever), can’t change it really probably - rather than “transferring money x”
          • happy to wait for reply from nlnet, depends how quickly we want it transfered
        • bruno:
          • still in agreement with that way of proceed, hoping nlnet will give us an OK, and we can go ahead like that
        • nick:
          • useful with Nathalie’s input
          • do the homework and get Nlnet’s reply (expecting an ok, giving their previous rection)
      • putting money in
        • check with Nlnet and proceed based on that
        • add others as admin of the nlnet account!
        • bank transfer, manually
      • taking it out
        • (support something so that Nathalie can send an invoice already)
        • nathalie:
          • technical level, clear, have business, can do invoices
          • some co-ordination, can I do 800EUR? means either nick or vasilis waits, or do less and wait? propose: I do the whole amount
        • bruno:
          • not clear how I will do it technically, cannot currently make invoices, have to figure it out
          • whatever nathalie does, will not affect me
        • nick:
          • also clear on technical part
          • would agree Nathalie takes out whole amount
          • will wait
          • might be useful to let Vas do his as well
          • no need for immediate money
          • hold off
      • shortcut money flow (get nlnet money, transfer money to oc)
        • nathalie:
          • pro side: saving fees, keeping some flows simpler
          • con side: less transparency, harder to live money agreement if we do these kind of shortcuts
          • would be nicer to get things in the common pool of money, so we really separate the flows
          • do we need to feel the agreements - shortcuts are “advanced mode”, are we ready for them?
          • also thinking about a shared money group project… having real common account/pot feels better
        • bruno:
          • I thought we were settled on doing it all through opencollective, no shortcuts
          • … but can see it makes sense on the practical side
          • shortcuts gives accountabiltiy problem, what is then visible to whom, is nicer to show everything on OC page
          • no strong opinions, more practically leaning towards shortcut, but also like the feeling of keeping things correct, through the accounts
          • benefit is visiblity of flow of money
        • nick:
          • one additional benefit of doing it through OC: reducing confusion
          • doing shortcuts adds complexity to the conceptual part of in and outs
          • is there a feature on OC to add manually there’s been an incoming payment?
          • would advocate doing everything through OC for the conceptual part and having OC as the accounting/recording part, to more easily track our parts
          • can see the weirdness in the operational part
          • if we do shortcuts, would advocate for a collective sheet for accounting
          • metapoint: financial system is built on shortcuts (e.g. credit clearance)
        • proposal: always put money through OpenCollective account
          • passed! consent from Nathalie, Bruno, Nick

next time:

  • new money amounts
  • UK meeting
  • plan upcoming design processes
  • database interventions [vas]
    • checking agreement we already have about removing people from groups, and see how it relates to last situation
  • Change time for co-working?
    • Jay and Butze interested
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • transfer NlNet money from personal account to OpenCollective [Bruno]
  • push forward with deploying profile access fix [nick]
  • confirm dates with Matt [nick]
  • write to NLnet about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-09-10 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Bruno, Nathalie, Jay, Nick, Dave

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • “This afternoon and tonight, we will celebrate 5 years of Foodsharing Luxembourg! :partying_face: This would have been a lot harder without using Karrot! Thank you and the whole Karrot team for your work and and support over all these years. I really appreciate it. :blush:” - from Daniel @ Foodsharing Luxembourg
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working:
      • co-working: Nick, Nathalie
      • meeting: Bruno, Nick, …
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • write to NLnet about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]
    • no reply still
  • transfer NlNet money from personal account to OpenCollective (depending on the above) [Bruno]
  • transfer money from OpenCollective to personal account [Nathalie]
  • push forward with deploying profile access fix [nick]
  • confirm dates with Matt [nick]
    • 31st Oct and 1 Nov

4. Discussion Points

  • Let’s talk about NGI0. An interview with you? (After Mastodon Messages)

  • mission organiser guide + presentation of an initiative [Dave]

    • if dave is unavailable, nothing happens, so announced “holiday” for the project
    • so now planning a mission organiser training guide for people
      • step by step guide
      • cooking co-operation, 4-5 events per month, needs organising
    • present guide…
      • “mission organiser” term, more than just events…
      • created activities for “request”, e.g. an email coming in that they want food for30 people
        • copy/paste the request into the activity description
        • activity type is a “request activity”
        • someone can sign up to say they will organise it
      • then you need to create a “mission plan”
        • whether you need cargo riders, cooks, etc
        • they have to then create an activity with all the roles - using participant types
      • have a lot of repeated missions, so make it as easy as possible, so created a “mission format” place type with many places with documentation you can copy and paste in the activity description + anywhere else to share it (e.g. chat groups)
      • then make a graphic for the event, using canva templates
      • then “role mobilizing” step, most effective to call people by phone - most effective way to mobilize people - so made lists of people who are interested in doing things e.g. cooking - list of names and numbers (using a place description), and a whatsapp mission group - can create “activities” in whatsapp group
      • templates for announcements (again in place description, markdown formatting in formatted blocks)
      • still a bit overwhelming for newcomers to do it, but maybe can get one or two people to do it
      • sometimes it’s quite simple, e.g. call a cargo rider to move some food
      • for the requests, instead of copying requests from email, could have a public button on public page to make requests, with a little form
      • also what would help is public sign up for activities
      • don’t use karrot so much for missions, but public activities would help people sign up for missions
    • reactions
      • nathalie
        • sounds really nice :slight_smile:
        • we do have an idea to implement some version of roles, and starting design process too
        • they have a place called rolle, but maybe it can something more specific for roles
        • sounds like core problem is being the main active person, and how to get people to step up
        • perhaps having more pre-defined roles could help
        • I had the experience that getting people in, saying “yeah it’s self-organised”, it’s quite overwhelming, so having structures makes that easier, and can change the roles over time
        • feels like you hacked karrot a lot :slight_smile: like a wiki, overengineered with walls and activities if it’s just a text box?
        • wondering how the plugins are, so maybe can just create pages… maybe needing blank pages you can write on
        • didn’t quite get what the “requests” are for the software
        • really nice to get an insight, sharing information, learnt about the group, nice!
        • biggest takeaway, invite dave to the role design process
      • nick
        • really happy looking at it, love seeing real live activities
        • make karrot work for you, make it your own
        • active people vs people in the periphery: core topic for karrot, comes up accross groups
        • resources: images, text etc, also came up in other project
        • wish for a bigger design process on this topic, but not something for the near future
        • one possible feature: add way how to contact groups (like apply button)
        • many karrot features could be developped to stream-line process
      • jay
        • really liked how you hacked the system to make it work for you
        • don’t have much to add
        • roles are something we’ve been looking into, sounds interesting, having ways to further organise associations
        • you’re welcome to join the design sessions to bring some user experience perspective to the design process
      • bruno
        • nice to be the last one :slight_smile:
        • most of my thoughts and reactions have been said already
        • good syncronicity with what people think, see, and observe, and about what we’ve discussed
        • nice to see the way you use places, became flexible enough to be used, so for future features to make sure to make them flexible
        • brings me back to a lot of ideas for groups, inbox for group, email or through karrot messaging, for interacting with outside of group (on breaking the silo sessions)
        • nick mentioned “shared futures”, some correlation in the idea of having a mission/goal orientated thing that takes you through the steps to organise something
        • related to the idea of task management, e.g. a board thing, trello/kanban style, to separate specific tasks within a bigger project/mission, clear connection to roles there
        • how to fit all the things together? well, missing capacity…
        • how do we pick the most useful bits that require the least amount of effort to bring the most out of it, to have the greatest impact
        • for the near future, the roles design process
      • dave
        • see a lot of nice stuff in karrot, can use activity type of tasks
        • so some adjustments on the user interface
        • karrot is nice platform as it’s really flexible for movements
        • being focused, and small improvements, is there room for this?
        • heard about the design sessions, maybe can join them
        • where is the room for having this focused chat on small improvements
    • discussion on possible outcomes
      • bring this into roles design
      • bring back another “community cafe” where Karrot groups join and share experiences
      • more co-working times
      • experiment with different ways of prioritizing work on Karrot
      • Dave will contact people from other groups to get together
      • report back to Karrot team
  • Change time for co-working?

    • Jay and Butze interested
    • adding more?
    • would anybody enjoying working on more than 1 co-working?
    • Jay
      • interested in a dev co-working
      • afternoon/ evening co-working
      • after 1600h CEST
      • or after dinner
    • Nick
      • unclear for now how to add another co-working, life a bit chaotic for now
      • would enjoy additional development focused co-working
      • usually better working in the morning, but not fixed on that
    • Nathalie
      • prefers mornings
      • a time where people get together
    • Bruno
      • evenings are not good
      • during the day, morning or afternoon (between 9am-3pm)
      • alternatives: Mondays and Thursdays
    • hard to find an alternative now. We keep the current time, but can continue the discussion
  • UK meeting

  • plan upcoming design processes [R]

  • new money amounts

  • database interventions [vas]

    • checking agreement we already have about removing people from groups, and see how it relates to last situation
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • check NLnet reply about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]
  • transfer NlNet money from personal account to OpenCollective (depending on the above) [Bruno]
  • push forward with deploying profile access fix [nick]
  • check with Butze and Vas about his times for co-working [Bruno]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-09-17 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: Vas
Participants: Nick, Philip, Vasilis, Bruno, Nathalie, Jay

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 10:30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • ? nothing! :partying_face:
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working:
      • co-working: Nick, Jay, Matt (?), Bruno, Nathalie
      • meeting
    • pick facilitator for next week: Vas?

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • transfer NlNet money from personal account to OpenCollective (depending on the above) [Bruno]
  • push forward with deploying profile access fix [nick]
    • I did it :tada::balloon:
  • check NLnet reply about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]
  • check with Butze and Vas about their times for co-working [Bruno]
    • had a little thread on it in general place, no conclusion yet

4. Discussion Points

  • UK meeting

    • mention matt dowse co-working

      • needs a follow-up
    • other organising

      • Nick:
        • needs to get my head around this, boat might not be the place to stay? Worth making a standby plan, suggest renting an apt in Bristol. For once I dont have travel logistics! Make a collaborative map https://facilmap.org/1XikMTJATp3Ja47l: its like a pad but on a maphtt
      • Butze: got a plan to come to the UK, need to organise, ready to book, still some open question,
      • Vas:
        • excited! 1 issue, lots of travel plans, and causing lots of emissions, because of phd viva
        • try and get the university to cover travel expenses
        • super easy with accomodation, if we can stay on boat, good, or rent airbnb, all good
        • 7th oct flying to newcastle
        • 16th oct flying back to greece
        • then fly back from greece to UK (london or bristol)
      • Bruno:
        • leaning towards not going, needs at least 24h to bus/train, dont feel like taking the plane, at least not in person
      • Nathalie:
        • I m also ready to book, still prefer to take the train, DB only to london and then local train. talked accomodation, 2 days earlier, one full day to settle, then workshop, some karrot (bonding and an extra sessio), maybe have access to a uni room to do some karrot co-working after
        • bit worried about staying on the boat if that is the case
      • Jay:
        • plane is the cheapest option
        • whether it would help someone to get the van, anyone interested? Ppl let me know on that
      • Nick:
        • cheap options with buses as well, NExpress, Megabus
        • will be nearby Bristol, be nearby one of the train station
        • there is a housing coop in Bristol, there is a benefit though to be nearby the uni, bristol is a big place
    • Quick round on what we need to book:

      • Nick:
        • predicted boat station
        • location
        • things to stay near the boat
      • Butze:
        • SE of Austria, might fly, need to know when the first day and the last day when I can sleep somewhere
        • and if we book an airbnb for longer time
      • vas:
        • would be easier to fly to germany, and could join in van, only thing is logistics, which day, how much time driving, etc…
        • accomodation-wise easy
      • nathalie:
        • basically have the same question as butze,
        • would prefer to know accomodation is booked first, before travel
      • jay:
        • bringing van is nice for me as accomodation comes with me
        • but if we have accomodation all together, then van less interesting
        • idea to make a calender to put the dates we would/could travel
        • check plans
        • van can be done in one day (10h drive)
      • nathalie:
        • question about the budget, would be willing to spend the budget on the trip, and even add more from karrot funds
        • not worry too much about high travel costs
      • pad → karrot bristol trip - HedgeDoc
  • updates

    • new opencollective contributor :dancing_women:
      • RFood started donating to Karrot
    • new deployment :partying_face: (+ followup warsaw)
      • follow up can now proceed, contact the person, unblock, write to Karolina
    • upcoming design processes
  • new money amounts

    • dig up the current amounts
      • nick 500
        • always aware, more than double, still feel consious of that, do feel a bit of guilt there, its also not a lot of money, still hold quite a lot of responsibility, have the intention to keep working, really useful having some income, would like to keep it the same, be open to ppl saying u should have a bit less, curious about ppl’s feelings, would welcome input, otherwise I just leave it htere
      • vas 230
        • haven’t been doing anything for the last months, but my only income at the moment, open to people saying “you shouldn’t have this money from karrot”, so happy to discuss that
        • keep postponing, final date for viva coming up, hoping to get my hands more on karrot, still active/inactive
        • be happy to keep amount coming in
        • expected to get some money for parkcourier thing, but not going to do that
      • bruno 200
        • not sure how active I ve been with Karrot, done the design thing on polls, keeping up minimun level of commitment, will continue with that, not in a tight situation financially, could go down if we ll need to dispose, would be happy to keep it as it is, open to objections
      • nathalie 200
        • happy with this amount for now, look back to my time-tracking Karrot history, I have more hours accumulated than the amount, dont know what it means, personally, asking at which point I should prioritise paid work, today is not the day I start being strict about it, one additional thing…coding work still in learning, feeling like I am doing an apprentiship so wondering if I should take these hours in consideration when it comes to Karrot money
      • jay
        • very surprised, thought its on how much you need and not really on how much you do, parts of the philosophy is that we are support part of the Karrot-team, atm I am happy since I have a job that pays me enough, scary to think, if I left my job, get some money from Karrot? just to be able to exist, someotimes I think about it, atm I ll keep my job and 0 from Karrot
      • butze 0
        • not present, but has always indicated he does not want to receive money from karrot
      • reflections
        • Nick: paying for what you need, embodied reality of having this feeling of guilt, so conditioned with that thing, its more complicated dialogue basesd thing, share thoughts, feelings, I absolutely like that karrot its some safety money, challenge Nathalie to put up the money up. Being paid to learn is normal and can be there

        • vas: reflection on what jay said, second what nick said, reality is way more convoluted, so nice to share our senses of guilt about not doing much, actually being supported for being part of karrot team, even though not doing much. fair to feel guilty though given we’re indoctrinated by the culture. useful comment to see how theory of money distribution meets reality in our conversations. considering the amounts, no objections for anyone.

        • bruno: working protestant moral ethics, try to challenge, it could also be that morals of reciprocity, at least for me I can allow myself to think of long term commitment and long-term reciprocity, if there is the need to get more money, if we dont burn the whole budget in the next month, we should allow that, fine with the current amounts, happy if ppl would like to go up

        • nathalie: feel some resistancee to some terms dropped today, i have a cynical voice today, but still feel like I dont know and we dont know how ‘to solve money’. Doesnt feel like really a solution. Happy to keep the amounts

        • jay: sorry if I sounded a bit critical, its fine to feel guilt, contributions might not be always possible to count in money, not dissapointed, obviously is ‘natural’ to think this way, happy if Nathalie to increase, really appreciate the fact that Nick mentioned Karrot money as a safety net.

        • Consent round:keep the amounts and re-evaluating amounts:

        • CONSENT (all)

        • add a new activity [Nick]

Next week:

  • new application from a month ago

    • should we have an official approval process?
  • database interventions [vas]

    • checking agreement we already have about removing people from groups, and see how it relates to last situation
  • check opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • remind matt about chatting tomorrow about bristol plans [Nick]
  • transfer NlNet money from personal account to OpenCollective (depending on the above) [Bruno]
  • [follow-up] check NLnet reply about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]
  • share with nathalie which profiles to check [Nick]
  • unblock the persons account [Nick]
  • write to Karolina [Bruno]
    • and write about the sactions design process
  • write to The Person [Jay]
  • write on the wall: Open Call: Join the Open Social Incubator | Media Economies Design Lab | University of Colorado Boulder [vas]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-09-24 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: Nathalie/ Nick
Participants: Nathalie, Nick, Bruno, Butze, Eszter, Eszter’s cat

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CEST, Butze and Eszter leaving early (11:00 CEST)
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meetings:
      • design meeting: tonight 19:00 UK time/ 20:00 CEST, Nick, + others, alreayd signed up
      • co-working: Nick, Bruno, Nathalie, maybe others
      • weekly meeting: some people
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nathalie

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • remind matt about chatting tomorrow about bristol plans [Nick]
    • done, and we chatted
  • transfer NlNet money from personal account to OpenCollective (depending on the above) [Bruno]
  • [follow-up] check NLnet reply about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]
    • followed up, but still no reply
  • share with nathalie which profiles to check [Nick]
    • did, and all good
  • unblock the persons account [Nick]
    • done, and I told Jay too
  • write to Karolina [Bruno]
    • and write about the sactions design process
    • yes
  • write to The Person [Jay]
    • yes, done
    • … also a reply, not sure on follow up
  • write on the wall: Open Call: Join the Open Social Incubator | Media Economies Design Lab | University of Colorado Boulder [vas]
    • he did…

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
    • banner: Community Announcements - #14 by nathalie
      • appreciation :slight_smile:
      • clicked on banner, but wasn’t sure what happened
      • the banner is the blue thing :slight_smile:
    • Design session this evening 20:00 CEST
    • contacted Karolina FSW for design session on sanctions
      • informed her about bugfix and invite her to sanctions design session
      • suggested a time 2pm, any day monday → friday, so trying to set a date now to talk to her, and maybe invite Tomek too, book it, then try and get more people on board, could also try working separately with groups if they don’t come to the same session, exploratory stage for now
      • more planning in co-working tomorrow :slight_smile:
  • chat with Eszter
    • intro
      • Nick: working together on shared futures platform, designer - developer pair, was very nice, get into development more, use this as a space to do so
      • Eszter: would like to contribute to karrot, succesful and complex platform, UX and design oriented work, very experienced, wanting to be moe serious about development, hasn’t happened yet, want it to be useful for karrot
    • round
      • Nathalie: sounds all very nice, take some time to get orientated, then can choose from the bouqut of things
      • butze: have no idea where to make a contribution, pass on :slight_smile:
      • Bruno: having a professional designer contributing would be great! been using penpot. Have been trying design process based on Google sprint. Easy going way of working, you’ll need to find your place
      • Nick: Two interested things, desing and dev. Don’t want to make it a second job. Work against urgency culture. A lot to say about how we work, how we distribute money among us, how we do desing process etc.
      • Eszter: happy to come over to Bristol, London based, makes sense that I need to figure things out. Will nicely align with coop work. Time is limited, anamorph coop as ful-time engangement. Interested to work on something that is alive and existing. Start on something small. Come to meetings and see! Love the video chat!
  • bristol plans
    • 2 days workshop 31.10 and 01.11 in Bristol with Matt Dowse
    • 2000 pounds from Bristol uni to fund us
    • rent an apparment in Bristol Tuesday to Saturday (4 nights) and boat after
    • planning pad karrot bristol trip - HedgeDoc
    • booking accomendation
      • Butze: booked travels for 29th already, stay until 4th/5th, indicated preference about apartment in chat, come grom Graz
      • Nathalie: airbnb has quite good cancellation policy, and prices going up now… maybe just pick the cheapest one, might be some shared beds, but ok with that, not sure how long I’ll stay, but 29th is fixed, so could book that, have to think about it
      • Eszter: if you want to stop by in London, can have a visit, lots of co-ops in a space, and can put someone up in living room, slightly tight, but living room ok, office has space informally, might be able to stay there if they want, can come for one day, it’s not far
      • Nick: stay after call and do the booking, electrics sorted, looked at stove, try to have it fitted, get toilet seat, could get campervan from my dad and park it nearby, has chemical toilet
      • butze: will go into the literature for community and trust
      • bruno: please share the literature!

next time:

  • new application from a month ago [jay?]
    • should we have an official approval process?
  • database interventions [vas]
    • checking agreement we already have about removing people from groups, and see how it relates to last situation
  • check opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • check with Jay about follow up to The Person reply [Nick]
  • book airbnb in bristol [nick and nathalie?]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-10-01 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Bruno, Philip, Nathalie, Eszter, Nick, Jay

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: until 11 CEST, then check… 11:30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meetings:
      • co-working: nick, nathalie, some people
      • weekly meeting:
      • community cafe: today 18:00 CEST
      • design process: second meeting on roles next tuesday 20:00 CEST
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • transfer NlNet money from personal account to OpenCollective (depending on the above) [Bruno]
    • done! \o/
  • check with Jay about follow up to Zbigniew reply [Nick]
    • nick and jay chatted about it
    • nick will reply
    • also offered space to chat about it with jay if useful/needed
  • book airbnb in bristol [nick and nathalie]
    • done! \o/ 4 nights, tuesday arrival, saturday departure
    • people coming have been emailed the details
    • costs added to the pad
    • karrot bristol trip - HedgeDoc
  • [follow-up] check NLnet reply about using their name/logo on opencollective [Nick]

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
  • new application from a month ago [jay]
    • noticed someone who had been trying to join Karrot Team & Feedback group for a month
    • wondered why we hadn’t accepted them, then just accepted them eventually
    • should we have an official approval process? am I allowed? should we discuss each time? was confused!
    • reactions:
      • Vas: can’t say much, pass
      • Bruno:
        • for this particular case, did read it, reaction was he might be a bit confused what he is applying to, might have not ended up where he expected, maybe worth clarifying what they are trying to do. imagined others had similar reactions, and didn’t put time/effort to answer properly.
        • more generally, don’t remember if we had any particular process, don’t think so, quite open, when we denied access it was on the basis of misunderstanding, checking with them whether it’s where they really want to apply, sometimes no answer came, so deny application
      • Nathalie:
        • remembering having the same question, aha moment came that there wasn’t a big risk of accepting them, as if they’re inactive, they’ll get auto-removed over time, and we can trust our own software and use the membership review process if needed, even if it’s a bit unclear or they’re not at the right place
        • sometimes I denied when there was a message and a reply from us, then nothing for a long time
        • also agree sometimes they sit there for a long time, can’t tell why I didn’t act on it, maybe just slips my mind, and not such a clear case
        • seems maybe too much to add process around this, I’d be fine having it as a group responsibility, although maybe worth having more formal process around it
      • Nick:
        • confusion case, in the last case, might be the korean buying-selling platform, not a big risk of accepting, leaving it as a group responsibility
      • Butze:
        • nothing to add, agree with what Nathalie and Nick said, good that you replied
      • Eszter:
        • if there’s no problem with accepting, better to err on the side of being overly broad than narrow
      • Jay:
        • clarify what “group responsibility” means → anyone can individually decide to accept
        • confusion here might have been they thought we organise the foodsaving, rather than supporting groups to organise themselves
        • happy to accept/reply if there is a huge confusion
        • had wondered if I did the right thing, and maybe there was a process
      • summary: conversation helped jay to feel empowered to act, and everyone in group who is editor can accept people in, and we’re tend on the side to accept people
  • database interventions [vas]
    • checking agreement we already have about removing people from groups, and see how it relates to last situation
    • we have our agreement in place for how to handle situations where we modify the database, did a few edits in a pad
    • general feeling was it kind of works as it is with some minimal changes
    • some questions to add in about what’s been happening in the last few weeks
    • will look for the pad for the edits with a few suggestions
    • why did we start looking ta this agreement again?
      • because we had case in fsw
      • nick acted, and we wanted to check whether to follow the formal process as we did with fslux
      • one of us would go back to the group and share the information
      • was not followed on this occasion, do we need another agreement that fits in the case

Next:

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • reply to Zbigniew [Nick]
  • find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-10-08 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Nathalie
Participants: Bruno, Jay, Nathalie, Nick

1. Opening

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • reply to Zbigniew [Nick]
    • still on the list
  • find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
  • removing Foodsharing Lux group
    • request from Foodsharing Lux https://community.karrot.world/t/request-to-remove-a-group-from-karrot-world/1880
    • reactions
      • Nathalie:
        • seems fine, still 20 members in though
      • Nick:
        • we don’t usually delete things, they are just hidden
        • start deleting in database. might lead to errors (e.g. references)
        • prefer a way to mark it as over
        • or redirect to new instance
        • what satisfies their needs?
        • remove all members and mark as inactive
      • Jay:
        • propose solutions and ask their opinion
        • why do they want it deleted?
        • marking as inactive seems fine solution
        • Q: how do users find LUX when they have their own instance?
          • A: there is no connection between instances, you don’t see the LUX groups on karrot.world. They do their own advertising. Maybe something in the future
      • Bruno:
        • wasn’t aware of complexity in deleting, alternative sounds fine
        • one of their reasons: reduce confusion
        • make sure users in that group know what’s happening, give time before implementation
    • proposal: give Nick mandate to find best solution
      • Nick:
        • they want to keep the main group, it’s the secondary group they want deleted
        • same things apply
    • consent round
      • Nathalie: consent
      • Nick: consent
      • Jay: consent
      • Bruno: consent
  • smaller opencollective tasks [Nathalie]
    • payment to coop cloud (Nathalie could reach out to allforclimate)
      • still haven’t done the payment?
      • wants to see if there’s a way to make a direct payment between collectives
    • Essen für Alle donation
      • still going to Wise account
      • Nathalie would be happy to ask them to use OC
    • Nick
      • got message from coop cloud about tiers, it’s on their mind
    • no big feelings here
    • assigned action items to Nathalie
    • Bruno
      • email from allforclimate with newsletter
      • having upcoming events, keep eyes open
  • publishing minutes [Jay]
    • having everything out in the open
    • lack of private spaces
    • particular thinking about conflict resolution
    • interested in brainstroming about this
    • do you also feel this need?
    • reactions
      • Bruno
        • find good balance between transparancy and more personal spaces
        • not having names was one way in the past
        • in favor of keeping public notes
        • being aware when it might be sensitive, make it clear when not to take notes
      • Nick
        • see limitations with our communication tools
        • not writing everything in the minutes
        • conflict resolution is also quite a public discussion in a karrot group - something that was pointed out before
        • transparency by default supports accountability
        • coming from early project days
        • doesn’t have to be the two extremes
        • evolving the features of karrot to support all groups and us
      • Nathalie
        • share need for more private space
        • use discourse forum for that and some other tools
        • not everything has to be written, can keep off the protocol
        • also surprised when coming to Karrot and having name there
        • likes talking about transparency
      • Jay
        • agrees with transpareny first policy
        • anonymise names, thinking about someones reputation
        • we were giving our opinions and being biased
        • propose to move confidental minutes to another pad
      • Nick
        • taking minutes in a private thread as a new idea
      • Bruno
        • seems like something we’ve been doing, being more conscious now, sounds reasonable
      • Nathalie
        • urge to go back to minutes to see if we reedit things, might be worth to check
        • appreciate to check our biases
    • proposal: move confidental minutes to another private place
      • Nick
        • this was always an option, good reminder, good reflections
      • Bruno
        • moment of evaluation
      • all agree
  • application in playground group
    • Nicks needs more trust!
    • Jay added to playground
    • new french group

Next:

  • check opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • reply to Zbigniew [Nick]
  • find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]
  • reply to armor coalition and re-activate group [Nick]
  • communicate with LUX group about deleting one karrot group and take action based on mandate [Nick]
  • ask Babette about payments between collectives [Nathalie]
  • chat to Essen für Alle about switching to opencollective [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-10-15 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: Bruno
Participants: Nathalie, Bruno, Nick, Butze

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • butze: will be in graz next week, might not make it to calls while travelling
      • next meetings:
        • tonight: community cafe at 18:00 CEST
        • tonight: design process on roles/permissions 20:00 CEST
        • tomorrow co-working: nathalie, nick, bruno, others? maybe matt dowse
        • next week meeting: bruno faciliate
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno backup

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • reply to Zbigniew [Nick]
  • find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]
  • reply to armor coalition and re-activate group [Nick]
    • did that
  • communicate with LUX group about deleting one karrot group and take action based on mandate [Nick]
  • ask Babette about payments between collectives [Nathalie]
  • chat to Essen für Alle about switching to opencollective [Nathalie]

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
    • updated certificates on yuca
  • message from person about commons etc.
    • https://community.karrot.world/t/karrot-supporting-commons-economy/1907
    • came to bruno via his university address
    • comes from a foundation for human technologies in krakow
    • had some trouble signing up to the forum
    • info on self-host at the docs
    • bruno will reply
    • nice suite of tools he mentioned
    • nathalie met them in SoFa community of practise, had an email chat
    • maybe they’re not clear already if they were aware nathalie is also in karrot
    • could open the idea for having a call
  • intersection of design processes (roles and sanctions)
    • on first sanctions call, we had karolina, joachim, and karrot team peeps
    • became clear that it’s hard to perform the role of conflict mediation
    • and working out who will be deciding on the sanctions
    • so relates to roles a lot, circles, groups, etc…
    • bruno working on map as the next step
    • two ways going forward
      • integrate with the roles
      • or very minimal version (e.g. whoever has editing permissions can apply the sanctions)
    • could discuss this evening if there is space…
    • comments
      • we also have membership voting process, not just editor roles doing things
      • see the connection, but not a fan of merging, as it complicates things, hard to deal with
      • roles would need to be more developed to plug in the sanctions, and not clear sense of what will come out of the roles
      • keep updating each other with how things are going, but trying to keep them independent for now, and merge coming later
      • thinking about what happens in the groups, features get very related
      • takeaway from sanctions is the key difficulty of getting people into ther role of mediators
        • selection process in FSW
        • what if it does not work out?
      • more important is how it can represent what the group does
      • less important having the very detailed technical features
      • we do have the problem of who gets to configure things in the group? who has authority to act?
      • history feature helped with that
      • see the design process as simplifying the complexity
      • having the editor do the sanction is a default, then later we can see how a different role can be created
      • in sanction design process, brought up a clear use case for a different role, or for sanctions work fallback on default of editor role
      • use case of how to groups choose the people who can make decisions
      • capturing the idea that we might want to review what a person sees when they get editor access, maybe can link that to more information, and the agreements, etc. at the moment you get an email and a notification, but could make people more aware of what you can do → trying to understand what would be the benefit of splitting up editor rights, trying to align what people do with things they have a mandate to do, including the roles
      • useful to have updates/recap during these sessions since not everyone is present in all of them

Next:

  • check opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • reply to Zbigniew [Nick]
  • find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]
  • communicate with LUX group about deleting one karrot group and take action based on mandate [Nick]
  • ask Babette about payments between collectives [Nathalie]
  • chat to Essen für Alle about switching to opencollective [Nathalie]
  • reply to commons person [Bruno]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout