comes from a foundation for human technologies in krakow
had some trouble signing up to the forum
info on self-host at the docs
bruno will reply
nice suite of tools he mentioned
nathalie met them in SoFa community of practise, had an email chat
maybe they’re not clear already if they were aware nathalie is also in karrot
could open the idea for having a call
intersection of design processes (roles and sanctions)
on first sanctions call, we had karolina, joachim, and karrot team peeps
became clear that it’s hard to perform the role of conflict mediation
and working out who will be deciding on the sanctions
so relates to roles a lot, circles, groups, etc…
bruno working on map as the next step
two ways going forward
integrate with the roles
or very minimal version (e.g. whoever has editing permissions can apply the sanctions)
could discuss this evening if there is space…
comments
we also have membership voting process, not just editor roles doing things
see the connection, but not a fan of merging, as it complicates things, hard to deal with
roles would need to be more developed to plug in the sanctions, and not clear sense of what will come out of the roles
keep updating each other with how things are going, but trying to keep them independent for now, and merge coming later
thinking about what happens in the groups, features get very related
takeaway from sanctions is the key difficulty of getting people into ther role of mediators
selection process in FSW
what if it does not work out?
more important is how it can represent what the group does
less important having the very detailed technical features
we do have the problem of who gets to configure things in the group? who has authority to act?
history feature helped with that
see the design process as simplifying the complexity
having the editor do the sanction is a default, then later we can see how a different role can be created
in sanction design process, brought up a clear use case for a different role, or for sanctions work fallback on default of editor role
use case of how to groups choose the people who can make decisions
capturing the idea that we might want to review what a person sees when they get editor access, maybe can link that to more information, and the agreements, etc. at the moment you get an email and a notification, but could make people more aware of what you can do → trying to understand what would be the benefit of splitting up editor rights, trying to align what people do with things they have a mandate to do, including the roles
useful to have updates/recap during these sessions since not everyone is present in all of them
Next:
check opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]
5. Actions and Outcomes
reply to Zbigniew [Nick]
find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]
communicate with LUX group about deleting one karrot group and take action based on mandate [Nick]
ask Babette about payments between collectives [Nathalie]
chat to Essen für Alle about switching to opencollective [Nathalie]
citizen engagement that came out of Spanish social movements ‘indignados’, for participatory budgeting, referendum, voting, participatory kind of stuff
might be worth getting some inspiration
karrot sessions during UK time
matt joined last co-working
Vas:
more networking/“lobbying” activity
it’s worth having a session between us before the events
first time we have proper collaboration with uni. what do we want of this?
reverse the consent form in the relationship between uni and [object of study] Karrot
happy to have roles design session
Nick:
place bristol goes Karrot,
Matt shared lots of thoughts, connecting with other initiatives
1-5-10 thing last year, nice opportunity to bring some of that in
curious spaces and speculative fiction, do some excersise about that, look/remember/explore big motivations behind working with Karrot
other things using Karrot as a base, use Karrot as a foundation, which now includes working with us quite a lot, ‘advertise’/outreach opportunity
would like it if enough money is running into Karrot, so K becomes a main thing, what would that look like?
do more planning/ scheduling Wednesday early evening when everyone arrives
Matt will provide frame for Thursday/ Friday days
could Matt hook us up with some nice local initiatives and doing some field visits in Bristol?
forum/wiki idea
search on Karrot wall
would search be possible?
have same credentials to log in with Karrot and a forum/wiki
Bruno: case is not clear enough, so maybe ask more, can relate to my own group where we use discourse forum where we use pads and stuff, wiki might not be nessecary for our case, investigate further
Nick: Sth that comes up all the time, Karrot is not suf to put all things on what our forum offers, seems that its another design process to understand what we are talking here, information storage and retrieval, acknowledge that we might not have capacity atm, single sign-on approach, looked into that before, i feel that is less designy process but more technical, ‘what is ur approach?’ might be asking to share/discuss our approach
search suggestion, use a place to store and retrieve/search information, search feels that is missing on Karrot but now comes up, no searchability atm
searching is complicated, language specific requirements that makes things more complicated, esp when things can be multilanguage, makes it more tricky (stemming stuff)
Vas: makes sense, as building an archive. thinking about data portability and how to export it, in case something bad happens. we lack info on what they want to search
Nathalie: ask for more examples/cases, what sort of info should be retrievable?, do not get what it is envisioned here, knowlegde sharing, accessibility question? who is editing? could just be a link to tools that we find useful, if u are looking for this or that…this is what we use
Next meeting:
opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]
5. Actions and Outcomes
find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]
co-working on Wdsday 23/Oct
enact the lux group cleanup [Nick]
ask Babette about payments between collectives [Nathalie]
chat to Essen für Alle about switching to opencollective [Nathalie]
check karrot goes bristol [Vas]
reach out to Karolina and ask for more details/examples [Bruno]
Date: 2024-11-12 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Bruno, Butze
1. Opening
10 min Check in
5 min ADMIN
attendance
duration: up to the hour (11 CET), then see
information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
vasilis and co-ordinator of local siegen fablab have met and how they can co-ordinate/co-operate
proposal, rural makerspaces, connecting two maker spaces, comparisons, sharing knowledge/experiences
also testing how karrot could work in makerspaces
how to connect food scene and maker scene, community fridge (maybe with sensors, etc), karrot
anton, foodsharing dev, joined research team, talked about coming to a karrot call, and is interested, maybe joining next week
next meetings:
co-working: bruno, nick, maybe others later
weekly: nick, nathalie, butze, maybe bruno
groups cafe 18:00 CET tuesday: dave
pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: nick
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes
find the pad with edits for agreement related to data interventions [vas]
co-working on Wdsday 23/Oct
enact the lux group cleanup [Nick]
slipped my task list
ask Babette about payments between collectives [Nathalie]
not yet
chat to Essen für Alle about switching to opencollective [Nathalie]
not yet
check karrot goes bristol [Vas]
reach out to Karolina and ask for more details/examples [Bruno]
regarding wiki/forum idea
email sent, maybe check for a reply
4. Discussion Points
updates
Marcus (gbg) showed interest in contributing
person that came to community kitchen project
already thought about writing a PR to improve invitation process to group
chatting on Wednesday about it \o/
hope to get someone active
bug from bruno
display of profile, see development place
post-bristol admin/receipts/money/etc…
agree on process what we do
which receipts do we accept?
curious about the total amount
money from bristol uni, how to account
do we need a spreadsheet or similar?
round
Bruno:
which receipts? dunno, leave it to your discretion, maybe hard to draw specific line, not very big amounts though, so fine
still tricky process, thought opencollective would help more, back to receiving money in personal accounts, maybe worth doing an evaluation of using opencollective and see how much it’s really facilitated our processes, or consider something else
spreadsheet/accounting thing could be useful if we didn’t have opencollective
maybe the outstanding things is what is prompting us to think more
haven’t been so much involved though
Nathalie:
don’t know where to draw the line, maybe just see it all as karrot money, also had the sense of more private vacation in the end, but maybe it’s ok, but also a bit mixed as we get money from karrot
would be fine to put everything into karrot
thought we could do our own little bit of accounting, factoring in the money from Bristol, seeing if that money covers it, or need to claim more, or donate something back
have to show bank details to social office, need to think about how to do bureaucracy
claiming with opencollective means handing in all the receipts, would be nice to avoid
Butze:
technically should have written an invoice, have a way of doing the bureaucracy/business part
one-off earning things in Germany don’t imply tax
don’t like accounting at all
event was a celebration, and very important in the whole process, and even if it felt like a holiday trip, see it as a celebratory task, no problems to see this as classic karrot expenses, even including the beer with nick and vasilis
will do own accounting and see what is left, estimate 100EUR left to give to fund
Nick:
include everything from the Bristol/ Bath trip in expenses
each do our own accounting to compare that to the 400 GBP
pay/ claim money to/ from karrot collective
comment about opencollective: don’t confuse the platform with the fiscal host
last 2 times we couldn’t really use the setup
accounting free model in a group with high trust e.g. have one shared bank account all together
Proposal:
include everything from the Bristol/ Bath trip in expenses
each do our own accounting to compare that to the 400 GBP
pay/ claim money to/ from karrot collective
consent!
design sessions updates. What’s next?
need to plan/co-ordinate session/process on sanctions, should set a date
would like to create a prototype
another meeting, to decide, then prototype after
also would like to see how the process on roles is, as they intersect a lot
roles:
roles is where it was 2-3 weeks ago
thinking of doing a glossary of terms (participant types, etc…) getting clear
thinking of where to attach roles to, groupwise, per place, etc.
have enough information/input for now, and need to review and come up with some solutions and very basic prototype, and present it
maybe wait on sanctions for more clarity on roles?
on development part, not like nick is twiddling thumbs waiting for something to do
a lot of backlog on development tasks, how to get into more productivity
regular slot on doing development, more focused than the coworking we have, pick another slot
is there help Nick can get? prioritise tasks on the board for example
not sure what I want, bringing it to our attention
prompt to engage with CSS idea
wasn’t explicit topic in Bristol, but mentioned at the end, vasilis not wanting to lead on it
nathalie had committed to follow-up, do people expect something?
we did consent to this proposal in siegen:
“We explore how to meet the needs of the Karrot project through the concept of Community Supported Software. This includes both the implementation within Karrot and the wider model.”
maybe schedule another design process for it? do we follow up with official process
Nick
would like to follow up on the idea, it’s necessary and promising
access to Vas’ paper?
seems to be a wider topic for other projects too
bring it to something that we can enact in karrot, rather than working on abstract stuff
interest in implementation
design process is quite good
who leads on that? coordination design process, tricky with other processes in place
invitation to do it
Nathalie:
good to hear the design process seems useful
question does seem down to “who’s leading it”
not completely not interested myself, but would rather finish current processes, don’t want to open a third thing
either someone has motivation/time for it now, or it waits for longer
we had a nice session on it, and the proposal is nice, and nicely documented
nick asked about CSS paper / chapter in thesis from vasilis, trying to understand the access around this, is it public?
spam emails in inbox [Nathalie]
something on discourse level? does it make sense to mute?
can we mute the email addresses/accounts that sent spam?
some semi-manual work to prevent the same ones coming in
silencing the user can work, doesn’t hurt to do it
