Weekly call about Karrot development 2024

Date: 2024-04-02 on Karrot
Facilitator: Vas
Minutes: all
Participants: Nathalie, Nick, Vasilis

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 11 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie less available next week
    • next meeting: 03/04/2024: Vas, Nick, Nathalie
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

4. Discussion points

  • updates Vasilis PhD chapter on Karrot (management, dev, governance)
    • 3 big topics/themes
        1. unnamed as yet
        • a lonely programmer (nick) having a silent partner (tilmann)
        • safeguarding mechanisms, multiple doors to get into Karrot, having to knock the door, removed some of the more public information, reflecting experiences of people joining calls without connection, so more onboarding
        • accordian structure of team, making it a bit more official, roles of faciliator, giving space, collecting consent
        • selective growth, removing from up-for-grabs, not on maintstream social media, mastodon account, gender imbalances
        1. karrot team and karrot users collaboration, hits, misses, and challenges
        • karrot team & feedback group, and how this played out
        • navigating superadmin-like requests, e.g. fs lux
        • potential of having higher level administrators, with self-hosting
        • design negotiations, majority of features come with conversations from groups, but karrot team also has own agenda, e.g. logging in with social media accounts, middle ground of public activities
        • breaking the silo, community cafe and karrot days
        1. cultivating a counter-culture
        • checkins/checkouts as community rituals
        • beyond capitalist norms and startup culture, karrot vs startup values
        • language, job titles, funding fatigue, accountability
        • equity-driven distribution of karrot funds, not time shifts, money distribution calls
        • towards opensourcefullness, open source being hollow/abused, how karrot is positioning itself within opensource ecosystem, critique towards hollow open source
    • will share document :slight_smile:
  • tech updates
  • hackweekend prep call next week? e.g. tuesday evening
    • space to share things about hackweekend
    • a good idea to have a call
    • good to do it this week
  • co-ordinate siegen hackathon [Nathalie]
    • every potential cantidate replied, Dan mentioned to have a planning call
    • there is an activity on Karrot on the 19th of April for the actual event
    • Nat not sure how much time I can spare, decomitted a bit atm
  • gender imbalances on Karrot
    • more like: feminist take on karrot

      • breaking cis-male culture
        • not secret that tech is male dominated
        • usually dont notice so much but more when ppl join who are also male
        • selective ‘growth’ interesting
        • we do have measures to prevent more toxic-masculinity, mansplaining
        • had little uplesant moments
        • comments or jokes
        • someone draws a penis, these jokes was more frequent in the last months
      • centering care
        • we do that already to some extent, focus on emotional health, we can improve
      • gender diversity, welcoming queerness
        • in the team
          • as a team
        • in the software?
          • as a software
      • who is doing what?
        • gender roles
        • stereotypical female roles but having quotas
        • breaking roles
        • a project more focused on fem ideas and queerness
        • I dont look karrot being the queer project I m imagining of
        • no clear plan on how to go forward
    • I really welcome the discussion

    • there is a realm of theory of books and podcasts, when it comes to a living practice, there might be a gap on how
      to incoporate these values, dialogue rather than conclusions

    • wondering if we can do sth like a book club to build on that

    • centering care is a lot in my life atm, getting it bigger than numeric imbalances, what does it mean to bring in some feminist practices, tick we got some women in the team, we can still have dominated culture, with queer to me there is a whole range of definitions with sexuality and more broad challenging conventions

    • diversity becomes broader as well, whiteness, neurodevisty, disability, fit into care and feminist practices

    • i m happy with the input

    • idea forming: a workshop that do things with this topic, engaging sth more practical, leipzig has a huge queer community, maybe I will look around

  • co-op cloud federation

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • ask overwhelmed secretary about funding for Karrot people [Butze]
  • epxlore engagements with queer literature, people, resource [Nathalie, Vasilis, Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-04-09 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: all
Participants: Nick, Vas, Butze

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: vas leave sharp at 10:30 CEST, 11 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting:
    • pick facilitator for next week:

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • ask overwhelmed secretary about funding for Karrot people [Butze]
    • will ask her today
  • explore engagements with queer literature, people, resource [Nathalie, Vasilis, Nick]
    • vas: shared link on karrot “Theory Club”
      • queer HCI → Home
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
    • not yet

4. Discussion points

  • what are we doing? re-orientate Bruno
    • gender issues? balance on Karrot
      • spent quite some time chatting about it last week
      • mostly men attending calls, including call visitors who drop in
      • also a few things noted about male-ish behaviours on calls
      • chatting on personal level about gender
      • could find ways within design to not reinforce stereotypes
      • how to make karrot more queer-friendly
      • we talked about the tokenist version as well, having quotas, gender diversity but all the women are doing sevice roles and men eng work,
      • we don’t look into ethnicity topics, neurodiverisity
      • connect with an org to do a workshop to explore the topic deeper
      • Butze: is worth exploring
      • Bruno: interested in propositions, what can be done
    • NLnet updates
      • everything is sorted, a bit to check
      • got an email saying that it is all signed
    • Nick’s work (Karrot’s haircut and more)
      • obv doing a lot of work atm, would like karrot to be the only soft project I do, in my morals makes sense to work on Karrot, only one put that amount of time, work on a team, doing work on the detail, calls and work outside, I m mostly pushing through requests on my own, I d like that in Karrot, we have nice disucssion philosophy layer, higher level topics is nice exchange, material work gots a gap in there, for me I enjoy doing work, get stuff done.
  • redesign
    • should it be an experiment or go forward with it?
    • proposal: go forward
    • reactions:
      • it’s pretty!
      • like it too
      • like it, consent!
      • official consent round:
        • check in with Nathalie
    • would like some beta-testing to see if it’s working, it affects a bit functionality
  • michigan student joining
    • no-one had replied to their application, wrote on the forum during the call, reached to Butze as well,
    • Nick has no capacity to give assistance at this moment unfortunately. There’s also a bad past experiene with university students looking to engage and disappearing later and not delivering anything
    • change policy:
      • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students
      • review it next week
  • siegen prep
    • Nick communicating to Elisa and making her feel welcome
    • what are our intentions?
    • Nick: see what others are into and start a design task for NlNet
    • Butze: would like to know when Elisa is coming and get a room for her
      • Bruno, Daniel and Nick would get Butze’s flat, Nathalie at Leoni’s and find a place for Elisa
    • Daniel stated what his intentions are
    • defining with foodsharing team what they want to work on and doing a more fixed schedule
    • there is space for open discussions, communal events, so it doesn’t feel like Karrot and FS are working totally separate
    • have a pre-hackaton call with Karrot people
    • brunso intentions
      • spend time together bonding
      • do some nlnet related tasks
      • have a nice collective sense of plan, orientation for Karrot
      • connect with foodsharing people, getting to know each other, maybe something more solid might come out of it

Next meeting:

  • co-op cloud federation
  • policy/rules/agreement library
    • chatting with ntnsndr (Nathan Schneider)

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • put the fully signed MoU somewhere [Nick]
  • check in with Nathalie on Karrot’s new design [Nick]
  • tell student we can’t take anyone on for now [Butze]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [?]
  • organise a pre-hackathon karrot-focused pre-prep meeting [?]

Date: 2024-04-16 on Karrot
Facilitator: Vasilitator
Minutes: all
Participants: Nathalie, Bruno, Jay, Butze, Nick, Vasilis

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 11 CEST, Nick, Jay and Butze leave at 10:30
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno (tentative)

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
    • did not work on that. I would like to involve the fs ppl so added that to the hackweekend schedule. free slot sat aftenoon, 45mins. finish the draft
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • put the fully signed MoU somewhere [Nick]
    • put it in the discourse chat randomly, it is somewhere
    • prev made a public post
  • check in with Nathalie on Karrot’s new design [Nick]
    • try some co-working on it during the siegen, work in progress
  • tell student we can’t take anyone on for now [Butze]
    • sent a message
    • 2 questions from Nathalie:
      • open application on the KTaF group we should do sth with
      • refered to a task assigend to me, shortcuts task and got a bit unsure how much they ve started to work on that
      • I dont remember chatting, not very responsive to communication [nick], created more confusion, havent seen any code, indication of ‘progress’, nothing we can do atm, if there is some com u can ask [butze] if they started working on anything
      • look at it in Siegen :slight_smile:
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contruvutiosn but HCIish things yes

4. Discussion points

  • Siegen hackathon last questions
    • what to bring
      • refers to sleeping bags, sleeping mats
      • arrive and then allocate
        • try to make things as flexible as possible,
        • everyone can stay in Butzer’s apt and the fablab works
        • flexible with multigen house
        • Nathalie can also stay at the multigen house to avoid cat allergy
    • time schedule
      • thursday nothing scheduled yet. Do we wanna do something?
      • Vas prefers morning sessions. Quite flexible except Friday 1pm
      • Jay works in the morning and a couple of hours after lunch (Thu, Fri, Mon)
      • thursday as an arriving day
      • nick will get some tech things to make vas present more convinient :D! thanks nick!
      • karrot ritual? initiate the congregation
  • co-op cloud federation
    • latest decision:
      • Large Decision 022: Budget 10: Abra integration suite automation - 2024-04-04
      • Deadline for votes is Thursday, 18th April – let me know if you need more time to vote than that.
    • we joined, we ll pay the money, participate in the votes, all disc, negotiations on a matrix chanel, if anyone wants to be another person from Karrot (except for Nick).
      • how are we deciding and voting?
      • there is a specific vote
      • incomprehensible tech things mostly
      • suggestion would be: everytime there is a vote I put on the Karrot group
      • nick as a delegate on the coop cloud fed [Nathalie].
      • not much to add [bruno], agree with Nick’s proposal
      • check in after a few months
      • have an overaching summary of what coop-cloud is and
  • policy/rules/agreement library
    • a disc on the main wall, down down scroll scroll,
    • discussion with Nathan Schneider
    • on the topic of governance,
    • policy rules with an open API, for example we got the agreements feature which we want t furhter develop, with Katie
    • now interconnecting projects, and platforms, library of some kind
    • templates, existing agremeents, projects, adapt, prefilled forms
    • examples of libraries mentioned on the thread
    • what’s interesting about it?
      • making groups aware of their governance
    • probably a lot of governance structures and decision-making processes would be at odds with how Karrot works
    • a lot of topics and wonder how to continue with this, needs to take a better look at it
    • keep the connection open and see where this can lead
    • which models do we apply to Karrot?

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-04-23 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: all
Participants: Bruno, Nathalie, Butze, Jay joined later

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 1h from now (10:40 CEST)
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie moving places next week!
      • Butze to Hawai next week
      • bonfire talking about CSS: Bonfire
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • Nathalie and Bruno will be there for co-working
      • Nathalie talking to Nick about redesign
    • pick facilitator for next week: to be decided

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • tell student we can’t take anyone on for now [Butze]
    • message sent
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • review redesign [Nick, Nathalie]
    • tomorrow on co-working

4. Discussion points

  • membership request on the group
    • we’re not sure about the person’s motivation
    • perhaps invite to a meeting
    • proposal: accept
    • we accept, no big requirements to join our group
    • trust the karrot features to do their work, if necessary
    • not clear what to do about the pull requests, wait for Nick’s feedback in this
  • follow up from hackweekend
    • put notes on forum?
    • add action items to list above? (e.g. tasks on vision docs)
      • also Nathalie together with first task
    • reimbursement transparancy and who is doing the payment
      • Daniel: 68,15€ (Nathalie will do payment)
      • Nathalie: 106,30€ (self)
      • Bruno: ~250€ + 113,80€ (self) - potential refund due to delay
      • Nick: let us know for the record :slight_smile: (self)
      • Jay (100€) (Nick can do payment)
        • was going to be 50€ but accidently bought 2 months, if people don’t consent to 100€, then 50€ is ok, I would consent to the 100€
        • 100€ is ok
      • we already agreed to pay travel costs and consent again to the above numbers
      • Nick can also do the transfer for himself and give us the numbers later
    • responsibilities for design process
      • polls: Bruno
      • CSS: Nathalie
        • do a next session continuing the process
        • can do the facilitation, check with Vas
      • Jay offers help to the tasks
        • next meeting
  • Jay’s contribution
    • what’s the first task
    • interested in improving accessibility
      • improve onboarding process
      • something structured to track the onboarding
      • increase inclusion and diversity
      • also motivated on other technical tasks, would find it satisfied on implementing features
    • finshing set up on her computer
    • Bruno will show Feedback and Ideas on forum, board ec to add own ideas or look for tasks

Next time

  • review money amounts
    • check notes what we said last time
  • membership Butze?

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • review redesign [Nick, Nathalie]
  • summarize design session on polls [Bruno]
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • check vision pad with the draft for a vision [Bruno]
  • let us know about travel costs [Nick]
  • Feedback & Ideas process and board on forum, look at agreement [Jay, Bruno]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-04-30 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: all
Participants: Nick, Butze, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 10:45 CEST, extend if needed
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie is moving :truck:
      • Butze to Hawaii :palm_tree::beach_umbrella:
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • coworking: 1st may is holiday for some, nick will co-work
      • meeting: nick and bruno
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno as backup

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • review redesign [Nick, Nathalie]
    • we did it!
  • summarize design session on polls [Bruno]
    • not done yet
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • check vision pad with the draft for a vision [Bruno]
    • checked! started writing another draft
  • let us know about travel costs [Nick]
    • 280EUR I think, need to do payments
  • Feedback & Ideas process and board on forum, look at agreement [Jay, Bruno]
    • done during co-working

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates:
  • membership Butze?
    • a round!
    • butze:
      • nice nathalie keeps track of it
      • feel like a member, but maybe we should formalize it
      • suggest to do it after back from hawaii :partying_face: :tada: :wine_glass:
    • bruno:
      • guess intention was to formalize, why not now?
      • can still have party afterwards
    • nick:
      • given there’s only two members it makes senses to do the formal consent when others are present
      • still not enterily clear what the criteria is
      • suggest to put on the agenda for when Butze is back
    • jay:
      • can do it whenever, and also understand not such a big deal, as also in practise also a member
      • seems could do it now, but also could wait for more members to come back
    • butze:
      • would also like Nathalie and Vasilis to be present if possible
  • Butze and Leonie did and will do interview sessions
    • to inform everyone, esp. vasilis who doesn’t know yet, everyone else knows
    • summary is:
      • how do you join karrot
      • what motivates you
      • what demotivates you
      • connections between local communities and karrot team
      • how did you like the hackathon
    • also doing similar interviews with foodsharing developers
    • question: is it possible to delete the video version of the interview once the audio version is confirmed as good
      • can delete after transcription
      • or delete the audio from the video
  • Jay’s contribution
    • managed to make dev environment work on linux machine
    • waiting for first task
    • for vision and mission, Nathalie was going to put notes on Karrot
    • was talking about where to get started with development
      • had own ideas, also would like to know what are priorities
      • went through the feedback forum section and how to choose something
      • using own motivation to choose something
      • have a little process for choosing development tasks in the weekly meetings
      • previously nick went through tasks, then based on some criteria would choose something
      • maybe it would make sense to do that process, or is there something in mind already? or focus on nlnet tasks
      • proposition:
        • my tasks can have two sources
          • nick assigns to jay that seems relevant
          • I come up with idea and talk to developer team (aka nick) to make sure it makes sense
      • reflections on the process (how to assign tasks to development team):
        • bruno:
          • from governance perspective and also design and values
          • where are the boundaries of deciding on tasks and assigning compared to others outside the development team
          • some things are clearly questions for developers, e.g. updates, without direct repercussion on usability and how users experience it
          • on the other end of spectrum, developing a whole new feature, need to work through with community, maybe a design process, and weekly meeting discussion
          • we had criteria, all took a look at the board, not just for development, but other kinds of tasks, good to keep the process and the clarity
          • maybe thinking in sociocractic ways, teams/circles, a certain mandate for a circle/working group/subteam, etc. important for them to keep that autonomy, and some things might be a bigger scope involving others
          • been a long standing topic, how to organise karrot, and governance system, would be nice to define for other people contributing in non-development tasks
        • nick:
          • also thinking about the sociocratic circle, a clear mandate to the dev circle, and what is to the general circle
          • fine defining a task for Jay now
          • also liked the process to define the tasks
          • we’ve also got the NlNet tasks ahead, so maybe no need to do that process now
        • jay:
          • not much to add
          • everything said sounds good :+1:
        • butze:
          • seems to be summarized well, thanks for bruno for bringing it up
  • Nick’s contribution
    • one epiphany is that need to activate burnout avoidance mode
    • works a bit frenetically some times
    • needs to spend a bit less time, but more focused time
    • be a bit more clear on what needs to do
    • what are his responsibilities? maybe a process for everyone
      • for example taking care of the server or responding to e-mails
    • ongoing responsibilities and tasks, loads of them!
    • could use board on forum for the tasks, but also codeberg, where it could be more detailed
    • more focus on the “Ready for development”
    • round:
      • bruno:
        • thinking :thinking::thinking::thinking:
        • would create some more structure, maybe it’s needed
        • gives a bit more support and focus for all of us
        • up for trying that
        • not sure on details or how to proceed
        • could look at codeberg
        • board on discourse is quite full and could do with some organising
        • maybe codeberg is useful for more development detail
        • could be once moving tasks into ready for development could go to codeberg?
      • butze:
        • very good to come to this ephipany, honest and vulnerable, have to take care of self
        • have to figure out how to support you in this, and get some of the tasks more distributed
        • see some more capacities for myself coming up, end of june onwards after thesis is submitted, then need new tasks!
      • jay:
        • really good idea to keep track of the tasks that are currently being developed and who is working on them, esp. if wanting to expand team of developers
      • nick:
        • likes to recognize the limitations in capacities
        • would like solve everyone’s problems but also needs to say no
        • looking at codeberg features
        • currently github for operational things
        • maybe a working session to figure it out
        • also to make clear for others whether we want to prioritize something
        • could work more during co-working…
        • started time tracking karrot work
        • want to only work when on a specific/assigned task
  • What to do with github repo?
    • was wondering what’s up with that? Do we keep pull requests? Usefullness in keeping it? Any thoughts?
    • Nick can give some useful info/context: everything is migrated to Codeberg, mirrored with Codeberg to update, turned off the issues, but all the links broke, got links all around the forum (important context), makes the project look active atm, you can archive the project on Git, was thinking to replace/have a message saying that “move to codeberg”. Sometmes ppl say dont’ open issues here but on Codeberg. Asked to chat with some prof to ask to take us out of their student assignments list.
    • Proposal: stop mirroring, replace it with a msg saying its migrated to Codeberg
    • bruno:
      • yes, also brought it up as I was away when the move to codeberg happened
      • doesn’t look like it makes much sense to keep the GitHub repo
      • see the history point
      • consent to the proposal
      • confusing to have both, just have one official one
    • vasilis:
      • hear what nick is saying, record of issues, and removing it leads to broken links
      • did issues migrate? yes issues in codeberg, but still lots of links to github
      • accept proposal, maybe also archive it
      • if we add a note on readme page? maybe worth writing a line explaining the reasons we move, that is to some extent a political decision
    • butze:
      • all fine :person_in_lotus_position:
    • jay:
      • agree to archiving, better to have it all in one place, easier to find
    • nick:
      • stop mirroring, put warning messages, and archive the repo on Github
    • vasilis:
      • would love to manually replace the github links to codeberg links, and look through the issues too in the process :slight_smile:

next time:

  • review money amounts
    • check notes what we said last time

for when butze is back from hawaii:

  • membership for butze process

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • summarize design session on polls [Bruno]
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • continue working on draft for a vision [Bruno]
  • do mine and Jays travel cost payments [Nick]
  • start evaluation of task/board system, maybe adding other topics/tasks [Nick, maybe Jay]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-05-07 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: all
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Vasilis, Jay, David

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 11 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working: yes
      • next week: yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Vasilitator

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • summarize design session on polls [Bruno]
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • continue working on draft for a vision [Bruno]
  • short Mission/Vision/Values [Jay]
  • do mine and Jays travel cost payments [Nick]
  • start evaluation of task/board system, maybe adding other topics/tasks [Nick, maybe Jay]
    • detailed tasks on Codeberg’s projects

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates?
  • metagov funding!
    • RFP: Interoperable Deliberative Tools | interop
    • Mina foundation: some blockchain thing
    • slightly confused on what the whole things was about
    • is there an overlap in the interest of Karrot and this funding call?
    • maybe if someone wants to develop something with Karrot, there can be a potential
    • not clear what real life use cases are there
    • interoperability has been intersting for us
    • is the idea to connect local governments with citizen assemblies? sounds interesting
    • positive to further explore that. How?
    • Vas could check with Nathan
  • vision draft for long Mission/Vision/Values
  • short Mission/Vision/Values (Done. Where do I paste it?)
  • daves figma designs
    • 3 use cases
    • public signup for activity
      • singup with name, e-mail, phone number, role
      • a way to choose to keep data private
    • how it looks for editors of the public event
      • make it public toggle
      • use public signups toggle and number of slots
      • not sure about public participant type
    • how is the data of the person who signed up displayed
      • the same as shown within the group
      • profile shows it’s a guest account
    • reactions
      • amazing you worked on that
      • that’s the ideal, people making mockups, contributing, etc-
      • makes sense in the context of your group, and could see it in other groups as well
      • discussions about being able to register through social media account
      • did not get the last bit about editors getting the data
      • likes the idea it goes on Karrot to the group
      • likes that the outsider can choose on data to be private or not
      • appreciates the effort and going into the details
      • always a challenge to keep something simple and usable
      • for mass mobilization events people want to keep the data
      • useful as a starting point to engage an audience
      • likes feature that will gets used immediately
      • wondering about the participant type, did not thing in detail how it would work
      • on discord it uses staged users, could be an approach. e-mail address is kept if person signs up
      • data could also be deleted after the event
      • roles make sense, asking people what they want to do
      • nice to have the description field (or just leave the types out, using free form text)
      • for communication: activity chats. Not there, so how to communicate then?
      • if necessary to integrate into communication features, use staged model
      • how to fit this into our process on how to decide what to work on
    • what makes it challenging for people to organize?
      • there being a lot of burden and responsibility for them
      • Karrot makes it easier
      • Robin Food has 3-4 regular events. It would be revolutionizing for them
    • how to contact the group feature
      • there needs to be a direct link between e-mail and group
      • organizers need a good overview: all in one space
    • how to proceed?
      • need to get organized and fit this idea into a plan/roadmap
      • proposal: put it in the board, a technical description, make a plan on upcoming meetings and see where/when this idea fits
      • keep an eye open for funding pots to specific things
      • idea: offer payment to develop certain things
      • let the creativity flow
      • thought about the staged user as a kind of progressive usership/membership
        • pulling people out of social media
      • we’ve got people we trust to do the implementation
    • Proposal
      • put on the board (Bruno)
      • technical design on Codeberg (Nick)
      • planning session next week (all)
      • Dave could do some co-working once a month

next week:

  • Vision/mission/values
  • planning
  • review money amounts
    • check notes what we said last time

for when butze is back from hawaii:

  • membership for butze process

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • summarize design session on polls [Bruno]
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • start evaluation of task/board system, maybe adding other topics/tasks [Nick, maybe Jay]
  • Check with Nathan on his ideas [Vas, Nick]
  • read draft vision/mission/values for next meeting [all]
  • Signup public activities
    • put on the board [Bruno]
    • technical design on Codeberg [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-05-14 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: all
Participants: Bruno, Nathalie, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: until 11 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: yes, both!
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Jay]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • summarize design session on polls [Bruno]
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • start evaluation of task/board system, maybe adding other topics/tasks [Nick, maybe Jay]
  • Check with Nathan on his ideas [Vas, Nick]
  • read draft vision/mission/values for next meeting [all]
  • Signup public activities
    • put on the board [Bruno]
    • technical design on Codeberg [Nick]

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates?
    • nothing to report
  • Vision/mission/values
    • hackweek karrot vision - HedgeDoc
    • Nathalie
      • not a lot of synthesizing was done
      • Bruno’s text has a new take, didn’t expect the part of crises
      • strong statements
      • more aligned with Jay
      • values is maybe out of scope, did not talk about it
      • the one from Marie is very descriptive
      • would go back to the extended notes and back
      • doesn’t see the synthesis, needs to explore more
    • Nick
      • term manifesto popped into my head when reading Bruno’s draft
      • into wider societal background
      • mission and vision can be more specific, than writing a manifesto to expand on them as part of storytelling
      • still something about mission and vision that feels corporate
      • word “fosters” triggered in a way, not having political depth
      • would be happy to just put it somewhere on a site and continue
      • get a “good enough” vibe
      • on values are tricky because it’s not clear what they mean, how they are implemented, includee or not
      • care is something that could be there, which is somehow present in the description of other values
      • slightly lost the sense of why we’re formulating these things
      • having a clear outcome might help
      • what we’re doing as a team and communicating to others
      • clear what we’re doing, lack a strategy and storytelling
    • Bruno
      • hard to work on a text together, esp. with such big topics
      • have it as a living document somewhere, question idea of having one page
      • don’t need a final version?
      • story telling for others is missing
      • how to present this to others? are there alternatives?
      • document this conversation, have different voices in it
      • afraid to get stuck in the process
      • thinking about work on landing page, it’s really nice in the end but also took a bit of effort
      • need more time to think about what to present where, the format
      • corporate vibe when formulating mission and vision
      • like the think in terms of a manifesto
    • How to go forward?
    • Nathalie
      • like the idea to think about the format
      • like shorter statements
      • would suggest to focus on the shorter vision and mission as a group
      • there could be another way, like an article, so it doesn’t need consent of the group
      • would be motivated to go through previous notes and do shorter statements
      • wonders about the idea of a word cloud, if it makes sense
      • make the scope smaller, vision and especially mission
    • Nick
      • getting more complicated at the moment
      • where do we put things, what is it for
      • internally most interesting is a strategy, which is close to mission, and goals
      • externally positioning us, giving context
      • reviving the blog in some form
      • blog posts provide snapshots of the moment, not carved in stone
      • simple version of mission and vision, try to find space for broader communication
    • Bruno
      • unsure about how to proceed
      • let it sit for a while
      • useful to communicate something, but doesn’t need to be the condensed vision and mission
      • idea of blog is interesting, a way of telling the story
    • proposal for an action?
      • Nathalie works on the short ones, mission and vision
      • start a blog?
  • talk in london
    • https://www.tickettailor.com/events/cada1/1198455
    • Nick offered to talk about karrot
    • they accepted
    • 25min, happening end of the month
    • chance to practise story telling part
    • wider context of needing a self-organised community approach to manage society, space for community to solve things
    • learn how to do community organising, tools to do so
    • quick reactions
      • Bruno
        • trying to make sense of the organisers?
          • answer: CADA network, work with STEM students, and The World Transformed are collaborting, more history there
        • checking out the websites
      • Nathalie
        • everyting sounds nice
        • more of us could do these kind of things
      • Nick
        • trying to make sense of the organisations
        • had call with one of the persons
        • diffuse attempt to tell the story
        • things come out of random connections
        • still needs to decide whether to do it
        • template of presentation slides could be nice, alos when more people want to start doing presenations
  • review money amounts
    • last time from December 2023 meeting
    • previous
      • consent! but didn’t set the term
      • term: check in January 2024, to see how vas’s situation is, and decide
      • Vas: 230€
      • Nathalie: 200€
      • Bruno: 200€
      • Nick: 500€
      • Butze: 0€
      • Total: 1130€/month
    • wise account (08.05.2024) 2945,81€
      • travel costs pending and potentially other payments
    • any changes?
    • we might need to do a review of the money agreement as well soon, which is bigger
    • questions
      • are we changing money amounts now?
      • where to pay the nlnet money into?
      • which payments are still due?
        • Bruno’s payment and travel expense
        • big payout happening soon
      • How do we get an overview of our financial situation?
    • Proposal: keep them the same, review before July
      • consent
      • note on activity for June 18th
      • work on questions
    • Proposal: decide on where to pay nlnet money by June 4th
      • have a clear proposal before, with time to reflect on it
      • not a super hard deadline
      • consent

for when butze is back from hawaii:

  • membership for butze process

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Jay]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • start evaluation of task/board system, maybe adding other topics/tasks [Nick, maybe Jay]
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-05-21 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: all
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Jay

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: could go up to hour, but shorter maybe possible, and pending connection issues
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working tomorrow: vas, brunobruno,
      • weekly meeting: Nick
    • pick facilitator for next week: ?

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Jay]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • start evaluation of task/board system, maybe adding other topics/tasks [Nick, maybe Jay]
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates?
    • prepare release and deploy
      • new design + updated livekit lib
  • insight from how wall is (not) used
    • people not aware of communication happening in the group, that was posted on group wall
    • not working very well as it should be
    • some people turned off notifications as it became too much
    • with bigger group becomes problematic
    • could get rid of wall? rethink communication paradigm, announcements idea?
    • other apps have started adding announcements sections, e.g. WhatsApp
    • round:
      • makes sense announcement
      • wall used for that mostly
      • not for daily communication
      • simplest version: rename it as announements
      • could have it like slack with a default #general channel (as a place)
      • back to question of what is on landing page
      • making it clearer when writing announcements how it is going to be distributed to the users
    • we don’t make this into a new outcome, just raise awareness, and keep it in mind

for when butze is back from hawaii:

  • membership for butze process

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Jay]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • write to gerben and ask about follow-on eu funding potentials [Nick]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • start evaluation of task/board system, maybe adding other topics/tasks [Nick, maybe Jay]
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • discuss starting the meeting half an hour later next time, or on karrot [anyone]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-05-28 on Karrot
Facilitator: all
Minutes: all
Participants: Bruno, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: (took us 1h to get to this point…) half an hour more, 11:10 or so
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working: nick and bruno
      • meeting: nick…
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Jay]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • discuss starting the meeting half an hour later next time, or on karrot [anyone]
    • discuss on karrot group

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates?

    • new look released
      • noticing mixed reaction in warsaw group 50/50 :slight_smile:
    • plugins nearly ready
      • doing frontend only is documented on docs
      • frontend env setup and plugin env setup
      • more docs to be written
      • plugin also in the backend, need to update recipe on coop-cloud
      • no docs for it yet
      • plan: instance configuration UI
      • examples of what a frontend plugin could do
        • adding new pages and menu entries
        • slots that put content in specific places (like a component on the wall, on top or below)
  • Polls design:

    • Penpot - Design Freedom for Teams
    • starting polls from group walls and place walls
      • but what about in the middle of a thread? probably not
    • added a “choose by role” option, of who can participate
    • no time limits
    • things left to work out
      • notifications
      • “poll has been created!”
        • bell notifications
        • push notifications
        • email notifications
        • notification configuration
      • list polls in their own section too?
      • who can start a poll?
        • whether it’s configurable?
        • anyone
        • can a newcomer create a poll only open for editors?
        • only editors should have the role selector
    • what does it look like in Loomio?
      • Top-level thing is Decisions
        • proposals, polls, meeting
        • a number of different things for how to do each of those, like templates

for when butze is back from hawaii:

  • membership for butze process

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • get feedback from others on the polls mockup [Bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-06-04 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Nathalie
Participants: Butze (left early), Jay, Nathalie, Bruno, David (later)

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: started later, to the hour 11 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Jay on holidays, back in a month (8th July)
      • Butze on a train next week Tuesday, will check connection
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working - yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nathalie

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • get feedback from others on the polls mockup [Bruno]
    • got feedback in karrot group
    • enable highlights in penpot, otherwise you might not find it
    • Jay will still give feedback
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • notes and actions items from Siegen on the forum [Nathalie]
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

4. Discussion points

  • membership for butze process [D]

    • checking our agreement again
    • Karrot
    • Membership policy
    • reviewed qualities for members
    • Propsal: Grant membership to Butze (Philip)
    • Reactions
      • Bruno
        • qualities checked for Butze
        • sees natural to have Butze part of the team
      • Nathalie
        • fun to review the qualities
        • good to take the time
        • still wondering what his Karrot contribution will be in the future, beyond Phd
        • had a nice contribution with the hackaton for example
        • wonders which other Karrot work interests Butze, like design, legal entity,…?
        • happy to formalize membership
      • Jay
        • agree with points mentioned
        • work as cohesive group, help out each other
        • good comprehensive list of qualities
      • Butze
        • very high values to live up to
        • aware of qualities
        • happy to become a member, process started last year in august when I met Nick in Luxembourg
        • contributions: not too many conrete tasks, needs to find my place still
        • achieve new vision and mission for myself
        • make connections between academia and karrot
        • connection and networking, working with foodsharing e.V.
    • Consent
      • Bruno and Nathalie consent!
    • Next Steps
      • add Butze to people page [Nathalie]
      • add Jay’s membership to agenda soon
        • intention to join the team
        • how to do onboarding, who is bringing this to the agenda?
        • when is the time to formalise?
        • don’t see a reason to not put this in the agenda, trust the process
        • ok that it’s not defined
        • maybe after Jay is back, but she is happy for us to discuss this beforehand
          [Butze left]
  • mini updates [R]

    • mockup for polls ongoing
    • Nick working on plugins
  • moving tuesday meeting 30min later, start on 10:00 CEST

    • decided in chat
    • changed on karrot already
    • affirmed in the meeting
  • financial host

    • Proposal - HedgeDoc
    • proposal to apply to allforclimate fiscal host
    • start a legal entity on our own or apply for fiscal host
    • issue: getting the payments from nlnet, not wanting to use private bank accounts
    • legal entity also includes questions of governance
    • went through options on last coworking with Bruno and Nick
    • All for Climate: EU-based, low fee, aligned values
    • Proposal
      • Choose Fiscal Hosting over founding our own legal entity
      • Choose Allforclimate as the fiscal host we want to apply to
    • Questions & Reactions
      • Jay
        • Q: How do legal entity and fiscal host go together? could still found legal entity later and stopü using fiscal host
        • Q: which countriy for legal entity? proposal is not to found entity now, but we considered UK but also other european countries
        • it’s economically easy to found something in France
      • David
        • good experience with them
        • everything is transparent
        • people can earn money, upload bills and money got transfered within a few days
        • income/ outcome visible on website
        • documentation available
        • create invoices, accept donations
        • a lot of work is done by the platform
        • keep getting active without worrying about bureaocratic stuff
        • we don’t have a legal entity
      • Bruno
        • Q: Use All for climate when signing a contract? [my connection broke down]
        • Q: Do we need to be Freelancers to access money? Yes! Everyone is responsible for their own taxes in their countries
      • Nathalie
        • clarification: All for Climate is a fiscal host using Open Collective which is the transparent platform
        • I do like it!
    • Consent Round
      • Choose Fiscal Hosting over founding our own legal entity
        • no objections - consent!
      • Choose Allforclimate as the fiscal host we want to apply to
        • no objections - consent!
    • Next Steps
      • Apply to Allforclimate :slight_smile: [let’s do it in coworking]
  • budget [R]

    • is there a report on the budget?
    • is it only visible for members ofthe team?
      • Bruno
        • no formal budget so far
        • 3 sources od income: nlnet, projet in gothenburg, donations
        • common pot of money
        • support contributors livelyhood
        • we had money circles, notes are public
        • we define who is getting what in these meetings
        • initally idea of providing (limited) basic income
        • shifting towards money for time/ contribution recently
        • thinking about our personal needs still
      • Jay
        • Q: do you ever pay external people (not karrot team)? we’ve done that once or twice, proposal for a person to work on a feature
      • Nathalie
        • interesting discussion about reporting
        • that will be a good thing with fiscal host
        • last meeting about money May 14th
        • currently spending EUR 1130/month
        • using Nick’s account, only 3k left
        • not really planned, but aware
        • still need to plan
        • not much security in terms of long-term savings
        • still figuring out how we relate to Karrot in terms of income
    • question answered :slight_smile:
    • no sense of urgency on this
    • although money agreement is probably due to review some time soon

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • continue working on the mockup for polls [Bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • add Butze to people page [Nathalie]
  • Apply to Allforclimate :slight_smile: [let’s do it in coworking]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-06-11 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes:
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 1h
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Bruno traveling for a week
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working probably
      • next week yes!
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • continue working on the mockup for polls [Bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • add Butze to people page [Nathalie]
  • Apply to Allforclimate :slight_smile: [let’s do it in coworking]

4. Discussion points

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-06-18 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes:
Participants: Nick, Philip, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: up to the hour 11:00 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie: FOSC SOFA: restructuring of sofa, focusing on community of practise (meeting, talking about governance, open source, sociocracy, etc.)
        • next community of practise july 15th 17:00 CEST
        • could be a nice space for karrot people to join
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working tomorrow: nick, … maybe butze, maybe not
      • meeting next week:
      • co-working next week: heads up → all for climate onboarding call
    • pick facilitator for next week: maybe Nathalie

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • membership payment coop-cloud [Nick]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates?
  • start review of money agreement
    • Karrot
    • 5 min to read through
    • round to share reflections
      • Butze:

        • a good general text, easy to comprehend for people in Karrot project or used to alternative circles
        • for people not in alternative circles, maybe hard to comprehend what it actually means, e.g. “what is the money circle?”
        • says describe an agreement for each contributor, but what would it look like? amount of money, could make it more tangible
        • in second paragraph there is an explanation of how we see money, would move that into the beginning, “How do we perceive money”, so add some headings, preface, process, how we get to outcomes. with the goal to help outsiders to understand it better
      • Nathalie:

        • I like it a lot
        • saw we made a few amendments from initial draft
        • feel like it makes sense
        • like this second paragraph, feels quite honest, e.g. within our financial capacities
        • two minor points:
          • practicalities of money circle, usually takes place in the weekly meeting, not after it
          • a bit more tangible about how we do things, could mention opencollective, e.g. “all money is collected by our fiscal host and visible on our opencollective”
            • like the sense we have one collection of money, and we had some confusion before about whether to have extra agreements
            • nice sense to collect all the money from all the sources (not thinking about who brought it in), and then redistributing it
        • agree with butze, as the agreement could just be amount of money
      • Nick:

        • likes it
        • balance between dreamy vision (working from our hearts) and lived realities, we touch both parts of that
        • broadly made sense to me
        • guideline: what do we mean by this, e.g. the 3 categories for contribution, we’re open to have discussion about others
        • guideline could mean different things to different people
        • external work not reflected here, difference between core work and ‘external’ work, nothing to add here, but reflecting that not all situation are covered (where there is an overlap in projects)
        • ‘in the meeting’ could just edit that
        • tangible is good, but could be prescriptive instead of descripive
        • example section could be nice, based on previous examples
        • once we get fiscal host, we can include it in there and link it
        • not about who brings it in, support making that explicit
        • adding headings, would be happy about this: ideoligical background, what we’ll discuss, facts/ how it happens, examples - but not too motivted to work on headings myself, as it’s not a very long text
      • Butze:

        • also stumbled on the word “guideline”, not sure a good other word
        • it also says “people who use Karrot”, so users of karrot could come and ask for money?
        • also don’t see the need to structure to the text, but would be happy to
      • Nathalie:

        • also not so motivated to structure the text with headlines, as it seems not too long
        • am motivated to add a sentence here or there:
          • opencollective
          • one money pot
          • and in the weekly meeting, not after
        • openness of money circle? didn’t advocate for it to be so open, but happy with it, currently we only give money to karrot team, open to some flexibility, in reality mostly people in karrot team
      • Nick:

        • openness, just leave it, but how do people know? they would need to be aware of it and somehow active
        • we did pay travel costs to karrot users, could be worth having a section, making it clearer for other people
      • next steps

        • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?)
  • stirtoaction festival?
    • Festival Tickets 2024
      • we would all like to go, looks nice
      • maybe next year find a festival and go there together
      • happy for Nick to go and we could support financially
      • how would karrot representation look like? e.g. chatting to people, connecting projects
      • proposal: Nick can buy a ticket with Karrot money for £90 and represent Karrot as well as do his own things there
        • Butze: I consent
        • Nathalie: I consent
        • Nick: I consent

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]

Date: 2024-06-25 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Bruno, Nathalie, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: up to 11 CEST, then check
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • co-working - onboarding with allforclimate, and maybe co-working after: nathalie, bruno, nick
      • next week meeting: nick, bruno, nathalie
    • pick facilitator for next week: bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we don’t have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]

4. Discussion points

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

also soon

  • discuss MoU 5. Security & accessibility responsibilities and add to excalidraw
  • Karrot employment

Message from APC thing

Hi Dear @karrot
I’m working at apc.org, member of NGI0 consortium.
Next Generation Internet Zero | Association for Progressive Communications
You received and NGI0 commons grant. Congratulations!

I’d like to do an interview (8 to 10 questions, written asynchronously) and publish it on the APC website.
Would you agree?
If so, who should I write to to send these questions?

Looking forward to hearing from you

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]
  • follow up with APC [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-02 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Vasilis
Participants: Vasilis, Nathalie, Bruno, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: try for the hour
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working
      • Nathalie, Bruno, Nick, (maybe) Vasilis
    • pick facilitator for next week: Vasilator

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • sign contract with allforclimate [all(forclimate)]

4. Discussion points

Next:

  • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate!

when Jay is back

  • Jay’s membership

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes
  • technical design of signup public activities on Codeberg [Nick]
  • bring back a new version of text to a meeting (maybe after fiscal host?) [Nathalie, nick happy to co-work on it]
  • follow up with APC [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-09 on Karrot
Facilitator: Vasilis
Minutes: Vasilis
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Bruno, Vasilis

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 11.30 CEST
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: Jay, Vasilis, Nathalie (maybe)
    • pick facilitator for next week:Jay

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

4. Discussion points

  • mini updates

    • allforclimate update? + more people join Karrot - Open Collective
    • idea is that all people sign up
    • sent of the signed thing, waiting for them to respond? Sent last week, we expect sth more or less at the end of July
  • NLNet updates

    • excalidraw we added some task (updates on it)
    • Excalidraw | Hand-drawn look & feel • Collaborative • Secure
    • very aware that the role desing process should start soon
    • finish the polls we d like to bring it in a meeting before it gets to development
    • for the roles. call a meeting…follow the design process, come up with a penpot, basically similarly to the polls (hosted by Nathalie)
    • keep in mind/updated with reality
    • some can progress when we got the fiscal host (no money on the account atm)
  • when Jay is back: Jay’s membership

    • Agreements: Member policy
    • §3 Becoming a Member paragraph
    • round of reactions:
      • Bruno: met her already and feels like she’s got the qualities for becoming a member. Saw a commitment and interest in cotributing mainly with development, but also with other tasks, would be interested to hear a bit more about how she sees her contributions in the future
      • Nathalie: a little ritual, meeting in person in Siegen helped me a lot, do see a lot of commitment, contribute, design process, there is a lot of things in favor of u also joining the team, one sense, hard to articulate: concern that engaging in a self-organised env might lead to overwhelm.
      • Vas: missed meeting in person, do see a good fit, beautiful to see Jay coming to the meetings, liked that Jay was sharing ideas already, good energy, likes to see team growing!
      • Nick:(re)echo, nice to build on the ‘in person’ base, enthusiasm is quite obvious and present, general in chatting, talking + Singing!!!, lots of ideas, bright thought, idea of having more ppl to develop (increased tech team) ‘I like that’ (Nick), learning the new tech we use, knowlegde sharing, space for learning within the self-organised, lack of urgency in Karrot, we dont have this ‘urgency’, its more present or slow or whatever is fitting, hope it feels that way as well, ‘slow spaciness’ can be nice and frustrating. A space to explore my experiences in siegen relating the situation with fslux
      • Jay: sorry have to be in and out of meetings, set time not compatible with my schedule. Fslux as one of the ‘users’ of Karrot, I m OK discussing about it. Overwhelm doesnt put pressure on me, had a positive experience, in general I have a positive experience, well organised but yet not so strict to stress me out, good match, from an idelogical, I want to be part of socially. How the process feels? It feels a bit stressful. ‘It is a bit like an interview’. My job is doing enough to cover my money needs atm.
    • consent round
      • Is everybody consenting:
        • Everyone consents: Bruno, Vasilis, Nick, Nathalie, Jay!!!
    • Welcome Jay
  • Local foodsharing Forbach possible cooperation

    • there is a group forming, got in touch with them, might help them out. I contacted them, they are on Karrot
    • Karrot
  • matt dowse proposal

    • centre for sociodigital futures (post-doc). Wrote me an email, ideas of trust. Community Econonomies, fancy working with me? workshop of paper,blog or seminar, invitation to explore that further, no big rush, away till end of July
    • this one → Matt Dowse — University of Bristol
    • reactions
      • Bruno is interested and curious, willing to chat
      • Nathalie good opportunity, I m not so interested in joining atm. Still vague but nice. Would ‘nominate’ Vas or Bruno to join if they like. How do u see the money involved?
      • Vas is happy to join/participate/chat/explore
      • Jay happy to join, interesting discussion that might come up
      • Nick: reply to Matt, propose an exploratory meeting, 1h or so and see where to go from there
      • If there is 250 a day, woulld like to participate as a team, a community in that way. Simpler to include that as pooled money
  • future meeting:

    • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval
    • money agreement review
    • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate!

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer)
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
  • open collective account [Jay, Vasilis]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-16 on Karrot
Facilitator: Jay
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Butze, Vasilis, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Butze, Vasilis
    • duration: 11.30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Butze away next 2 weeks
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Jay

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer, Jay)
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
  • make an open collective account [Jay, Vasilis, Butze]

4. Discussion points

  • report back on stirtoaction festival last week [Nick]
    • new economics festival
    • wrote a mastodon thread
    • intelectualised ways, expert on the stage
    • bettter to surface the wisdom in the room
    • managed to get play, rest
    • one of the structured sessions: ABCs of the new econommy, attend an annual EGM, join a committed role, middle role: listed 7 things, e.g. learning skills, sharing connections, contribute ideas, tell stories was quite a nice one, two ppl had interesting chats with, commons booking, curcilar economy urban project e.g. have a karrot instance, the other project was a shared economy project using open-collective, would be a while before Karrot would make sense for them, made me think of Karrot as a core that is supported by plugins/extention. A community around deaf users also connected to, eg a work on a join application funding platform to work on more tailor made features. Got some good ideas overall for Karrot
    • session on investing/funding: going down and gets harder and harder, everyone seems to ‘hate’ the whole thing, models outside waiting for the funding cow are important to find.
    • community tech session didnt engage much but nice ppl to talk to
    • question/reaction
      • onboard Jay how we seek out funding
      • commons booking, what did you mean?
      • go there as team next year?
        • could be nice, worth considering, could evaluate others
        • didn’t have camping this year
      • mapping out use cases was interesting to hear, likes to continue this conversation, outreach and strategy
      • work towards Karrot strategy days
  • money agreement review
    • text with amendments: HedgeDoc - Collaborative markdown notes
    • talked about it on 2024-06-18 meeting: Weekly call about Karrot development 2024 - #25 by nicksellen
    • Review text
    • Reactions
      • like it how it is, wait until it’s true as we’re still in process with all for climate
      • Open Collective
      • get rid of ‘in the sense of redistribution’
      • not very clear what is meant by decouple income generation and receiving money
      • happy with text
      • ‘however we recognize…’ not logically coherent, conclusion that is drawn
      • common pot aplies to funding, some do more fundign oriented work that other and therefore ‘generate’ more income
      • not sure about ‘decoupling’, is it clear for outsider?
      • confused about categories of contribution, is it for Karrot members or outside contributors? Is there no fixed salary?
      • Alternative wording of redistribution sentence
      • 3 categories: paragraph above has the relevant information, doesn’t only refer to Karrot team, problem of guidelines, happy to get rid of it if it’s adding confusion, it is not a boundary, emphasis on discussion part
      • monthy or task based compensation, not categorise contributors
      • not speak about ‘3 categories’ but ‘ways of contributing’ instead of putting a number
      • don’t see myself in any category
      • process question: consent to written proposals, continue rewriting other parts, iterative approach
    • Proposal:
      • Adopt new version of agreement with a term of 1 year.
      • Bring back proposal after tomorrow’s co-working
      • Add current changes in bold
    • Consent round
      • Objection: 'we aim to distribute the money fairly ': unclear what fairly means, it is vague and doesn’t reflect what we mean
      • Proposal: Agree on everything else and leave this part (2nd paragraph) to coworking session
      • Consent!
    • Next steps
      • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
  • report from FOSC Community of Practice [Vas]
    • good meeting, 7-8 people, 3 people from SoFA, others from other projects (US, Poland)
    • skipped bureacratic parts e.g. SoFA membership to join
    • getting to know each other, some started implementing socicoracy
    • made a list of topics for the future
    • meet once a month
    • very grounded, different ideas
    • interested to think about fluctuating participation, how could sociocracy work there
    • not only focused on decision making but building relationship, sharing emotions
    • shared values implicit in open-source and sociocracy
    • bringing open-source to sociocracy and vice versa
    • notes: FOSC Community of Practice notes - Google Docs

future meetings:

  • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval [Bruno]
  • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate! [Nathalie]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer, Jay)
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
  • make an open collective account [Jay, Vasilis, Butze]
  • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-23 on Karrot
Facilitator: Jay
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Jay, Bruno, Vasilis

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: Nick, Jay, Bruno
    • pick facilitator for next week: Jay

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • change getting started guide to give the right message for undergrad students [Vasilis]
    • done
    • summary is that we dont have capacity for dev contributions but HCIish things yes (co-working)
  • join Karrot - Open Collective (Vasilis, Butzer, Jay)
    • Vasilis, Jay joined; Butze not yet
  • include Jay in the Karrot people (quick/short bio)
    • done
  • make an open collective account [Jay, Vasilis, Butze]
    • redundant
  • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
    • to do
  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]
    • to do

4. Discussion points

  • mini-updates
    • we got a fiscal host! :tada:
    • work on group switcher mobile
  • money topics
    • transfer last of existing money to OC
      • one time donation
      • 439,81 EUR
    • do first nlnet RFP?
      • ready to do first rfp payment, to private, then OC
    • essen fur alle regular donation
      • make a test donation and check how it works
    • think about future of opencollective usage
      • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
      • include link, or more inside Karrot?
      • deeper integration?
  • meeting with matt dowse
    • interview with Nick (Commmunuty Tech, sociodigital fututures)
    • back and forth discussions to collaborate
    • paperblog/seminar
    • trust was the central topic interested in
      • exploratory call online with Karrot-team
      • cc Martin Parker to be in the loop
    • expressed personal interest ‘out of the papers and to the hands of actual communities’
    • writing to vas and butze to ask for some references for papers for the issue of trust
    • how it connects with real-world trust
    • matt dowse initially wrote:
      • “Specifically, I’m thinking about the idea of trust and how trust is built through community technology practices and processes – both in the ways that organising in this space is constituted and broadly governed (alt models etc) and how these practices can form particular kinds of trust (and vulnerability) and what this means to how community technology might be imagined in the future as a trust making practice…… In part, this links to some of the community economies summer school work that I’ve been working on in that I think that trust has the potential to sensitize us to some of the invisible practices that make up community tech practice and which might be generative to future thinking about community tech and what it does/can could do (in opposition to some of the more damaging effects and or practices of more capitalist forms of tech practice).”
    • not much research around trust which is not transactional (reviews, star systems), different forms of trust e.g. trusting someone to hold a role, relational form of trust is build gradually, some papers on relations trust, but not much how technology can mediate this (related to HCI)
    • different faces: trust people, trust mission, trust culture, trust platform as a software, trust towards an instance admin, trust to be solid
    • needs to think more about the conection of trust, roles and selection processes, also looking at our next Dsign Process for Roles
    • is trust-building a fundamantally non-technologial process? How much can technology really do?
    • sociocracy supports trust-building and psychologival safety in circles/ small groups
    • Who is interested to join an inital call with Matt?
      • Jay, Vas, Bruno, Nick
      • how to find a date?
    • take some time beforehand and use a co-working to collect trust related topics
      • could do it or do it together with Matt
    • Proposal
      • Ask Matt if they have an agenda and plan for the meeting, propose to use co-working time (August 7th)
      • Jay, Vas, Bruno and Nick will take part
      • continue in co-working
  • review List of ideas at the bottom of this page, remove items that magically happened and celebrate! [Nathalie]

future meeting:

  • Open Collective account
    • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
    • include link, or more inside Karrot?
    • deeper integration?
  • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval [Bruno]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • update agreement on forum and karrot group [Nathalie]
  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]
  • transfer over last of funds to OC [Nick]
  • do an RFP [Nick]
  • share papers on relational trust in karrot group [Vas]
  • continue conversation on meeting with Matt (trust topic) [Jay, Nick, Bruno, Vas]
  • open a topic on the forum (board) around people page link [Jay]
  • review #2733 - change_about - karrot/karrot-frontend - Codeberg.org and merge if OK [Nick]
  • replace list of ideas with ‘keep’ section [Nathalie]
  • bring to forum
    • if there are shared resources in a group = commons (e.g. a cargo bike) can this be supported by karrot. e.g. a feature for shared items? [Nathalie]
    • agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-07-30 on Karrot
Facilitator: Jay
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Jay, Nathalie, Bruno, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CEST or finish earlier
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie away end of August, will miss 20th/27th calls probably
      • Nick away next week Tuesday/Wednesday
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working:
      • co-working: Nick, Bruno, Nathalie, maybe Jay
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

4. Discussion Points

  • rephrase money agreement [Jay]
    • Editing Proposal
    • manifesting transactional money transfer
    • maybe rather soften it
    • add hourly payments
    • new proposal is more formal, job-like
    • “retribution” terminology confusing, could mean punishment
    • some confusion/overwhelm about all the details
    • leaning towards the option of leaving it completely
    • although can be useful to have examples of how we can make money flow, e.g. some monthly, some time based, some task based
    • would be against getting rid of it entirely, as would lose information
    • getting rid of it? in law there is an agreement and a guidance document, maybe that’s what we need here. Guidance document can be more wordy and doesn’t need to be on a level of agreement
    • how to onboard people to a new money paradigm
    • process is conversation based, this seems to be the essance
    • additional advice document could have more help with examples and link
    • Next steps
      • put proposal in forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
      • continue as slow conversation, no decision now
  • mini-updates?

  • bring polls design into meeting for discussion/approval [Bruno]

    • Penpot - Design Freedom for Teams
    • would definately have more questions to solve along the way
    • walk-through from Bruno
      • discussed many settings, here included
        • “Allow multiple answers”
        • “Anonymous”
        • Who can participate (by role)
      • shows up as part of the wall
      • shows the poll settings
      • a thread for discussion
      • no time bounds for now (same as discourse)
      • can see results before voting
      • can delete vote
    • review thread with feedback on Karrot group
    • forum thread (without discussion)
    • feedback/questions
      • very nice :slight_smile:
      • having a menu entry on left to show all polls in group?
        • put it in mental checklist, it evaporated
        • would be nice to have a place to share the polls, wondered about the size of the menu…
        • maybe a redesign of main menu…
        • easiest solution would be add another item
      • also likes it, straight-forward
      • there will be more requests in the future and we can keep impoving it
      • time-bounds came up quickly in feedback round e.g. useful for Warsaw group
      • adding bonus features while developing
      • core features and bonus feature list for development
      • get everything on forum thread (see outcome)
      • how does it relate to agreements, membership reviews
      • also relates to menu: governance, coordiantion, communication
      • Proposal:
        • take this as core feature for polls
      • Reactions
        • looks good as a must-have
        • nothing more to add
        • makes sense, well defined
      • no objections raised
      • plan to move forward? Bruno document and summarise on forum, could request nlnet money (Bruno) and then do bank paymet to oc, Nick could start working on it in a couple of weeks
  • co-op cloud payment

    • we agreed 60EUR/year
    • The Co-operative Cloud - Open Collective has a 108GBP predefined one
    • we could choose either amount, but I propose we do 108GBP one
    • also, looks like it’s only set up for card payment or UK direct debit payment
    • Proposal: Pay 108GBP instead 60€/year.
    • Question and Reaction
      • Q: What do we do if we run out of money?
      • feel quite opposed, it’s double the amount, and if it’s only because they don’t have the option, doesn’t seem enough reason, not sure if I actually want to object, but want to raise it, we don’t have tonnes of money, unclear, might let it pass
      • wonder why they have such a different amount?
    • Operational part of doing payments
      • think there might be another way how to do it… not sure if it is better
        • went back to allforclimate notes, could go to karrot page, submit an expense request, then could choose an organisation, then would require them to send us an invoice, not sure which way makes more sense
        • can explore it more in co-working
        • this option makes more sense, not going through personal bank accounts, would like to see money flowing through collectives and organisations
    • Proposal: Willing to pay 108GBP/year, pending the exploration of payment options.
    • Consent round
      • Bruno: Object: Request Coop-Cloud to be consistent
      • Nathalie: consent
      • Jay: consent
      • Nick: consent
    • Proposal: Willing to pay 108GBP/year, pending the exploration of payment options and request Coop-Cloud to be consistent
      • all consent :partying_face:
  • Open Collective account

    • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
    • include link, or more inside Karrot?
    • deeper integration?

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • continue conversation on meeting with Matt (trust topic) [Jay, Nick, Bruno, Vas]
  • agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software [Nathalie]
    * not yet
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
  • move/summarize the discussion on polls from the Karrot group to the forum and announce on the thread the decision [Bruno]
  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
  • exploration of payment options in opencollective re: co-op cloud [Nathalie, and others]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-08-06 on Karrot
Facilitator: Vas
Minutes: all
Participants: Vas, Bruno, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CEST or maybe finish earlier
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Bruno away next week
      • Nathalie away 19-30 August
      • Vas submitted application on gig economy
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: nathalie, bruno, vas
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nathalie

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • continue conversation on meeting with Matt (trust topic) [Jay, Nick, Bruno, Vas]
    • provisional call on the 14th of August 9am UK time
  • put on forum/ board: agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software [Nathalie]
    • not yet
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
    • not yet
  • move/summarize the discussion on polls from the Karrot group to the forum and announce on the thread the decision [Bruno]
  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • tomorrow
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
  • exploration of payment options in opencollective re: co-op cloud [Nathalie, and others]

4. Discussion Points

  • agreement feature and group governance, have a default agreement coming with the software

    • main point is making implicit choices more explicit
    • sth like ‘terms of agreement’, not in legal terms but more
    • sometimes groups are a bit unware of how to use features
    • bruno
      • makes sense, we ve seen group’s having confusions with karrot-trust system, I think it would be nice to have some default agreements, how it works on karrot, not trying to impose but making clear that with some aspects, the have to live with
      • try to list what these things are (e.g. membership review process, editor roles, trust karrots)
    • vas
      • default agreement or manual?
      • example of a group that bypassed the trust system and created an admin
      • people tend to use Karrot in their ways, like carrots as likes
      • tend towards making it as a list of things to make it clear, but hard to impose them to people, because they will bypass
      • makes sense to have a forum post to discuss it and have different views
      • sees the potential of getting people to use and think about agreements as a feature
    • bruno
      • having default agreements is a way to nudge, make it more visible
      • groups can then change that agreement if they want to use Karrot in another way it was intended
    • stays in the ideas section for now and we link the notes that we have started the disc already on that
  • Open Collective account

    • set up contribution levels with descriptions?
      • in the contribute section what tiers we can have
      • happy to remove the default options and leave one-time donation
    • include link, or more inside Karrot?
      • when do we make it really public?
      • make a banner?
    • deeper integration?
      • I d put that more into the future as a question [nathalie]
    • do we want to promote our open collective account?
    • question for essen fur alles for example?
      • not sure yet to contact them
      • feels like it is still an exploring phase
      • wonder if nlnet will be happy with the way the payment was handled on opencollective (nathalie)
      • I was also bit surprised (Bruno)
      • also checked opencollective today and are assuming Nick was in touch with nlnet (vas)
      • slightly dissappointment that money still needs to flow through us e.g. with the coop-cloud payment (vas)
      • how easy or unconvenient
      • ent would it be for them, seems like a good case
      • need to explore more, what are good/ bad sides
    • go ahead and use opencollective as our accounting tool, but be a bit catious and still see this as an experiment
    • also on bigger scale, for which groups does opencollective make sense?
    • being more action oriented
      • remove default options for donations
      • include link on forum
      • explore deeper integration further
        • for example groups having their own open-collective account
      • ask Essen für Alle for feedback and explore together
    • make account visible but not advocate heavily
    • stripe fees: e.g. Monthly financial contribution to Karrot · Contribution #777923 - Open Collective
      • a lot of monthly donations come with a lot of fees
      • yearly payments are better for fees
    • next step
      • work on more concrete proposal
  • karrot emails, making you aware of incoming emails

    • look into the inbox :slight_smile:
    • Bruno, Nathalie didn’t get email notifaction, they usually only receive spam

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • tomorrow
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
    • not yet
  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
    • report back next week
  • Default Agreements: stays in the ideas section for now and we link the notes that we have started the disc already on that [Natalie]
  • remove the default options on opencollective [vas]
  • check last email convo between Nick and foodsharing Warsaw [vas and the rest]
  • check opencollective and relevant discussion here and come up with a proposal and check convos on funding place on our Karrot group [vas]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2024-08-13
Facilitator: Vas
Minutes: vas & others
Participants: nick, jay, nathalie, butze, vas

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
      • duration: 11.30 CEST
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • yesterday was open source sociocracy for all community of practise session
        • was a nice conversation with 6-7 people
        • minutes on google drive
        • selected a topic: circle structures
        • discussed about dividing into subcircles
        • conversation about how to apply in bigger engineering department
        • reflected about tech circle conversation within karrot
        • doesn’t seem we operate open source-y, with random contributors
        • … what are these open source norms? are we playing by them? or do we question them? are they sociocratic?
        • might change at some point to be sofa members to join
      • shared futures conversation carries on (interoperate with Karrot?)
      • https://kin.coop/ nudging them to build ‘on’ Karrot rather than build sth from scratch
        • met in neweconomy conf, mutual money-funding, pool their money together, could be a good fit for a karrot plugin
    • next meeting: weekly meeting and co-working: nick will try, maybe jay, vas will try but most probs late, nathalie, philip will try
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • nick sent bruno the link
    • brunos rfp not yet done
  • put proposal about money agreement to forum and continue conversation there [Jay]
  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • request Coop-Cloud to be consistent [Nick]
    • did that request
    • proposed to have a flexible contribution
    • bumped (nudged) the topic in the co-op cloud chat
  • Default Agreements: stays in the ideas section for now and we link the notes that we have started the disc already on that [Nathalie]
  • remove the default options on opencollective [vas]
    • done! just one option now, flexible one-time or recurring donation
  • check last email convo between Nick and foodsharing Warsaw [vas and the rest]
    • some people read it, and updated people at last co-working, and up for discussion today
  • check opencollective and relevant discussion here and come up with a proposal and check convos on funding place on our Karrot group [vas]
    • hopefully continue on coworking tomorrow, and explore what we might be able to do, to link opencollective with karrot a bit more

4. Discussion Points

  • mini updates
    • received first nlnet money :partying_face:
      • donate from personal to opencollective
      • needs manual process, financial admin
      • choose where u are donating from
      • select karrot org or other org
    • nlnet account on opencollective?
      • linked nlnet
      • should nlnet be aware of that?
        • know that other projects created phantom orgs for payment
        • would need to revisit emails for exact info around this
      • donation from personal account to karrot?
        • two donations chain
        • personal to karrot,
        • everyone responsible for own taxes
    • donation from personal to opencollective?
  • how to access email? [Jay]
    • we have an email integration with the forum
  • warsaw situation [nick + everyone else who read through]
    • starting thing with one person from Warsaw, years going back having chats with them, was a hectic time for me, had minimal timme to think or reflect, my sense was that harm was perpetrated in the immediate situation, someone stalking another person
    • decided to cc info@karrot.world
    • to trace the whole thing you need to expand the converstaion (3 dots)
    • block access to this guy, built in to django
    • was voted out already
    • allegation was that he was accessing private info, so there was a bit of panick about data security, gdpr,
    • I was then also accessing this situation from a technincal angle
    • there seemsm to be a bug: not meant to open ones prof if u are not in the same group
      • but this is not true
    • I suspended that user
    • decided that we cant wait around to discuss and that there was a need for more immediate action
    • they were sort of loosing trust on karrot but they were content/happy that we acted ]
    • same person started using FB afterwards where we cannot do much
    • protection mechanisms as a community and a team that can be more effective to more fixed, bureaucratic security mechanisms
    • feels a bit messy and i have a strong belief that we can put sth forward
    • round:
      • was good to take pre-cautionary action to restrict the user
      • would be interesting to investigate what triggered all that
      • previously would have argued to never exclude anyone, but after 12 years of these movements, realise limitations on resources/capacity to deal with situations in depth
      • wondering what the terms for suspending someone from an instance
      • wondering what happens if they created a new group
    • questions:
      • did it happen before to block someone from a whole instance? did we do it? group level vs instance level
        • no
      • our job is walking the tightrope between ‘it there business’ and ‘we ll do everything to heal your pain/trauma’
      • with having the technical power commes with the responsibility
      • not using the power can be as active as not using it

future meeting:

  • discuss the approach for adding nlnet money to karrot opencollective

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • do rfp after the above is done [Bruno]
    • nick sent bruno the link
  • join Karrot - Open Collective [Butze]
  • confirm 9am tomorrow morning with matt dowse [Nick]
  • invite philip to opencollective [vas]
  • check opencollective (regarding linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]
  • ensure all karrot team people are in all the admin-related groups on the forum [Nathalie]
  • reply to Karolina [nick]
  • reply to Zbigniew [jay]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout