Date: 2022-05-03 12:00 (UTC+2)
Where: Jitsi Meet
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Nick, Vas, Nathalie
1. Opening
10 min Check in
motivational speech “Simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures. Simple in actions and thoughts, you return to the source of being. Patient with both friends and enemies, you accord with the way things are. Compassionate toward yourself, you reconcile all beings in the world.”
(Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching)
next meeting: General 2022-05-10 12:00 CEST, Design Process 2022-05-03 20:00 CEST
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes
5 min
fill the yaffp with our respective commitment to Nlnet milestones (nathalie, vas)
Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
Nick hosted nice person from Poland who might get involved with self organised style tech stuff and with the Foodsharing Warszawa group, would be nice!
money agreement nearly ready, yay!
4. Discussion points
4 min nlnet Jos [R, E?]
Hello Nick,
Good to see that you have clear assignment of the tasks on your
Discourse instance. We’re looking forward to finished milestones.
It’s best that you work in they way you’re comfortable. We measure
progress primarily by submitted requests for payment. So when there are
non of those yet, we do wonder about the progress.
What is your expectation on the finishing of the milestones?
Best regards,
Jos
nick felt a bit overwhelmed opening it, and a bit of pressure, or uncertainity
nathalie
reasonable what they are saying
feels like some things in the list can be finished quite soon
e.g. roles thing, and a little writeup, and a celebration! would be motivational
not very far away now
aim to identify what can be done, and focus on that for the next email to them
vas
what do they mean about the finishing of milestones?
which ones we think we might not finish, and they can reallocate money to other projects
need to priorities which milestones we aim at finishing
when is deadline?
end of october? should check it out
talk about nlnet priorities next week
20 min Money distribution in karrot [D]
open questions
where to post it?
a post on the forum and in the karrot team karrot group
maybe a short post on karrot, then linked to forum post
need to announce it somehow? maybe on the general wall
and also write in the activity description that it’s a money call (or rather, has one on the end)
proposal: assign vasiliator for the money call next week, who can then work out where to post/announce stuff - check!
5 - 10 min karrot days [E]
status quo, gathering ideas
motivation to drive it a little forward, get feeling from the group
should push forward karrot days, make it happen!
one idea do it before July so we still have people not on vacation
looking at the nlnet milestones, maybe a couple of things we could work on, ones that are a bit more exploratory
e.g. have a breaking the silo workshop, come up with scenarios with what we’ve done so far, then mess around on a miro board
maybe a 2 day event, meeting, chatting, and some hands-on exploratory work together
karrot days got postponed, echo off that
how does it fit in personal life
great idea still
hands on stuff connected to the milestones, not addition to milestones
maybe some coding
monthly community cafe is a nice idea, cross over with karrot days
looking forward to the karrot days, a nice situation to join
seemed to hang in the air for some time, not much info about the postponment
would look forward to some fun and evening things
a more intense focused time 2-3 days with schedule (compared to scattered around a week)
already some ideas around for what it could do
so maybe task is to find a date that works for people
if motivation is high, then maybe it could work
before July also…
from discussions in groups (in our breaking the silo stuff), most of the information about karrot days hasn’t made it to the groups, but when chatting with the groups they’re up for it, chatting to other group, etc
so question is how to reach people, beyond just a forum post
interest of group to chat to other groups? e.g. about conflict resolution
spaces to talk about topics “how to…” onboard/ found a group
5 min questionaire for groups [R]
Vas is working on it, not done yet
optional: 10 min reflection in Nathalies faciliation [E]
next time
5. Actions/Outcomes
ask what is needed to fill in responsiblities doc [Nathalie, Vas?]
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
start working on a reply now, check later with Nick
what are we able to fulfill until end of october
Improve developer experience
Nick & Tilmann need to decide, seems to go forward, almost done?
time scope?
→ (reply to Jos) we will do it! getting there
Roles feature
first iteration is ready to implement, how does the coding go?
Put name down as responsible even if there are no coding skills? “Taking the lead”, making sure it will happen, is also good. More like a manager. Motivational aspect.
Nathalie will put here name there!
write-up and documentation still a bit open. Write a forum post. Make it accessible. Nathalie will feel responsible too
→ (reply to Jos) we will do it! getting there
Design and develop feature toward ‘breaking the silo’ among groups on Karrot and the wider public outside Karrot
Bruno proposes to finish “Conduct and publish writeup of design process” by July/ August
see how it can fit with karrot days to get some feedback
karrot days in June/July would be cool
→ we can deliver something until October!
Agreements feature
Nathalie and Bruno want to see this feature and are therefore motivated
Nathalie will put her name down and Bruno will be really supportive, working starts in 1-2 months (for “Writeup process and documentation for agreements feature”)
check with Nick about the implementation part (or other devs in a supportive position?)
→ (reply to Jos) holding on to it
Refining places and activities feature
Bruno could come up with first sketch at some point, start the process, work on design
Vas motivated to help, hopes for input from karrot days
lower priority for now?
could come up with minimal version later
check with technical stuff
places and activites seem to work fine in karrot now
task would need to start from the beginning
→ (reply to Jos) a bit unsure (we need to check it in x months? <–would this work?)
Connect and engage with the communities using Karrot
Vas is the steward
“Document participatory processes (for other projects)” can be combined with phd maybe, a bit vague at this point
a blog post on the topics could be nice
an extra website maybe
Conduct and publish writeup into how Karrot is being used until June/ July with data from interviews, inside stories
Guide for participants on how to contribute
extended list of ways into karrot
e.g. fo students
how can you do it
co-working session at some point
it’s not a big issue, just needs to be done
→ (reply to Jos) 2 of 3 will be done for sure, the 3. one a bit more optional
Improvement of the existing conflict resolution feature
complicated topic
think about next iteration and test it
conduct design process even in fewer sessions than breaking the Silo
start the latest end june, make it topic for karrot days
start right after Breaking the Silo, maybe a bit overlapping
have it in august/september
is this too late for implementation?
→ (reply to Jos) there is motivation to work on it, implementation could be time-critical
Facilitate self-hosting of Karrot
→ (reply to Jos) Nick & Tilmann should say something about that point
optional: 10 min reflection in Nathalie’s faciliation [E]
another time
there will be the written feedback
move on to money circle!
start today but continue next time
how much do we want to write down in the minutes?
personal preference
check again what is written and if you want it published after the meeting
round reflection on categories and questions
which category you 'd place yourself in
Vas: volunteer contributor (but committed), income from uni, funded and doing research in karrot, no additional money from karrot, one wish would be to keep a small amount of money aside e.g. for a karrot meeting. Receives 1200£ as a stipend, some months 2 rents in athens and uk, not stuff member so not in a pension scheme, unemployed in greece meaning has to pay for health expenses, a loan of 10,000 euros to renovate a countryside house inherited by grandma, shares resources with partner that her job is going shit, most money spent on food, gardening and side-projects
Bruno: commited contributor, would be nice if karrot would help to cover expenses, expenses around food and rent, basic bills, travels, not a must, contribution flowing up and down depending on the week, focus on long-term contribution, feels very much commitment, reflection about privileges, living in a welfare state, family has been able to help and has the option to do climbing courses or do swedish courses
Nathalie: ocassional contributor, shared economy with 4 others → savings got lower over time, questions of how to achieve a sustainable financial situation, future changes require a new orientation, move out from kanthaus where rent and food are not a cost → health insurance as ongoing cost, get some money out of sociocracy possibly, be happy to get a little bit of money, need to find my karrot projects so this middle thing is quite fitting
what’s the current balance, how long would it last
how we organize ‘money contributions’
5. Actions/Outcomes
Vas will reorganize the karrot days pad (Vas)
Ask Nick if he wants to share some input? (Vas)
E-mail to Jos after chatting with Nick (Vas)
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week: Bruno!
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
1 b) c) and Optional: Nick started looked at this, seems achievable, good idea to talk to Tilmann, support each other
→ we are holding on to this
→ optional ones depend on nlnet also, putting those lower priority
→ get on with one of it now, others can be ongoing, nice independend tasks
Roles feature
Nathalie and Nick will have a chat on that topic
→ seems good from Nicks perspective
Design Breaking the silo
→ seems good from Nicks perspective
Agreements feature
implementation part? highest chance for outside devs as there already is the prototype
maybe break it down to smaller parts
new devs would still need Nicks help (what he offers)
→ holding on to it, check-in in a few weeks
Refining places and activities feature
come up with ideas for design part
→ agreement to what was said last time, evaluate in a few months
Improvement of the existing conflict resolution feature
a) in high priority
b) holding on, evaluate in a few months
depends on our flow of work, there is potential for a lot of productivity
Connect and engage with the communities using Karrot
→ agreement to what was said last time
→ put b) as “maybe”
Facilitate self-hosting of Karrot
self contained tasks
feel good about those
→ we’re doing it!
in reply: have different categories for the topics
- high priority
- holding on, evaluate in a few months
be transparent in our communication, check-in with nlnet regular
other thoughts: what are the conditions to allow work and motivation? what can we do to suport that layer? → talk about it more in the next call
translation requests: korean (just now), and indonesian (october last year)
check again what is written and if you want it published after the meeting
round reflection on categories and questions
what’s the current balance, how long would it last
how we organize ‘money contributions’
current balance: 6276,38 €
Nick: commited contributor, short-term: savings going down, long-term: achieve indepented financial situtation, context of whole economy, using holistic concept of value, difficult in capitalist surroundings, aiming for local income too at some point
Reflections:
tension between spending karrot money too fast and supporting people long-term
critical about always seeking for money
finding the right balance
karrot is growing up a bit, plug more into the flow of our lived lives, keep coherent and consistend within that
money forces a certain way of operating
idea from last money calls: distribute money in a way, so it would last 3 years
with complete nlnet funding it would be around 730€/month total
maybe rather take 2 years as a reference
enough time to look for another source of money
include this guideline in money policy?
current bank balance for 2 years: 260€/month
current bank balance + nlnet funding (complete): 1095€/month
current bank balance + nlnet funding (1/2): 678€/month
long-term strategy for karrot: a discussion for the future!
a bit of talk about funding and/or crowdfunding, hybrid model, keeping things independent
how do we come to a proposal with numbers?
go with monthly reference
karrot itself wanting some money (collective expense)
reserve amount for future contributors?
shorten terms for money calls
have the next money call in 3 months, even before if there is the need (e.g. for Tilmann to join)
talk about it next time and come up with numbers!
agreed on each others level of contribution
5. Actions/Outcomes
Nick will talk to Tilmann about task 1 (improve developer experience) for Nlnet
Nathalie and Nick (maybe Bruno and Vas too) will chat about roles feature
Bruno checks with Vas and they write the reply to Jos
Topic for next call: what are the condidtions to allow work and motivation? what can we do to suport that layer?
update description on transifex [Bruno]
write reply to application in spanish [Bruno]
talk about numbers next time [all]
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week: leave it open for now
starting in the morning on first day is not really for working people
liked suggestions
how much can we do? that’s the core of the program
finding dates: we decide in the meeting here, or give 3-4 options most for the forum
dates: we define the 2-3 days, only some people visit the forum
sceptical about duration of the days, too long in general
likes “inspire, focus, reflect”
remains tricky how to communicate to groups, different ways to communicate
before august
idea: have it week-end only, don’t make it too long
one weekend in july!
have date by next meeting
have it 2 days, not 2 1/2
breaking the silo design process
not happening this evening, maybe another day this week
continue talking about what are the conditions to allow work and motivation? what can we do to support that layer?
co-working as an idea to get things going
co-working, when?
5. Actions/Outcomes
invite Nathalie to the Wise account (Bruno)
working on a draft to Jos (Bruno)
finally replying to Jos! (Vas)
check with Nick and maybe Tilmann about which dates would work for the karrot days (Nathalie)
send out a message to find a day of the week for co-working (Nathalie)
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week: Nathalie
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
Nick: one morning, one afternoon, more options to work in pairs, could add a bunch of options over the week and people check-in at the beginning of week which slots they will join
Vas: nice to get motivation that we’re all working on the same project, prefer morning times, would prefer long session (6 hours!), maybe sounds long, but also take a nap… knowing there is someone else there, idea of “karrot day” nice
Bruno: need to talk to Madde to co-ordinate with kids, mornings/lunchtimes generally better, at least 1h, at most 2h, nice to have a more fixed time for karrot work, end of month frans will start school so more time available, try a few weeks and re-evaluate
Nathalie: maybe we can go for wednesday now! 2h “core” slot where everyone is there would be nice, then flexibility elsewhere
Proposal:
10-12 CEST wednesday, core co-working slot
optionally have more karrot work on wednesdays too
agreed!
Next steps
starting this week?
yes, although not everyone can make it
meet in jit.si room at the starting time?
do we want an activity for this?
of course! which place?
karrot days dates [D]
16/17 july
agreed!
should do a “save the date” announcement somewhere, can organise that in co-working tomorrow
should we keep the same forum topic, or have a fresh one
can be decided in the co-working thing
also can revives daves designs, they are shared somewhere in karrot, and with the link to the design tool
feedback on a ongoing conflict resolution
still strong reactions to everybody being involved in it
blame directed towards person who created the issue in karrot
one suggestion: send out only the initial notification when conflict starts, no notifications to everybody about messages
only subscribe the initiator and “target” to the conversation
big improvement in terms of effort/impact
is there a risk for it being confined to the two people involved in it only
knowledge about it goes around, so other people would join
seems enough if everybody at least gets the notification
maybe only subscribe the editors
confusion about messages (e-mail notifications)
people confuse notifications with messages to them
we found out we don’t particularly know how it works
questions:
what does the “new conflict resolution process” notification setting do?
what is the default option for that notification is?
who is notified when the issue is created?
who is added to the conversation when an issue is created?
who can vote?
is there a notification before the end?
current scenario
how we would like it to be
maybe also add another notification when it’s near the end (1 day to go)
we also have scheduled a design process for improving the conflict resolution feature
do we include this as input to that, or go ahead with a small change that we seem to have loose consensus on it
ask community on forum about it
good idea to not open up the whole topic in that moment, knowing we have our design process and karrot days coming up to explore the wider topic
including brunos experience that people will find out about the conflict within the group
open minded that it might work diferently in other groups
summary:
we should get to know our own tools
we probably shouldn’t add people into the conversation automatically, other than the two people
there could be a notification a day (for example) before it ends
answer the conflict resolution questions (nick/others?)
consult with karrot community on forum about proposed small changes (bruno)
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week: Nick
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
we like the second one, with the little things on it
should we specify more where online?
community.karrot.world as a banner and/or pinned post
make the link underlined, and not the sentence below
where is it going to be shared?
to different Karrot groups along with a short invitation
get the image on full resolution
feedback on schedule
included on the pad below the schedule table
Nathalie will do some changes
think about who will facilitate the sessions
karrot days next steps?
invite ppl for the lightning talks
prepare the invitation and the list of “guest” on the co-working
organize/plan workshops
plan tools to be used (jitsi or BBB? excalidraw?)
do we manage to decide on schedule next week and start inviting people?
a banner on Karrot?
let’s create a Karrot group, both to organize sessions and to play with!
feedback from Nick about hacktioncamp event [R]
hacklab started in the 90s and activist oriented
rooted in alternative news media/indie media
haven’t done anything in 5 years and got together again with a mix of old and new people
about 14 people joined the Karrot playground group for this occasion
one person active in the Transition Movement, Karrot might be interesting to transition groups (he set up humhub for some groups)
XR and transition movement set up a nice suite of tools, but local groups usually do not use them. National networks might be a bit centralizing in this sense
a reflection (connected to breaking the silo): more important that groups connect and communicate among themselves rather than the national organization
Nick got motivated to present tech tools for community organizing, together with people from other towns
People from radar.squat.net travel around and do work on the project on site. That’s a nice idea for Karrot as well
Some questions concerning GDPR, data protection and the legal form of the project were raised
Conflict resolution and trust were interesting for people, quite unique
Two parts session: one presentation (background, values etc.) and one interactive testing Karrot in a group
some reflections on how to do outreach for Karrot…
should people register and if not, how much do we want to encourage them? Round:
strenghen the need to register
not make it mandatory, but explain why it’s good to join the Karrot group. Suggestion: add more info about the Karrot days group
make it clear that it’s not mandatory, to make it feel more open
agrees not mandatory and to make it more persuasive to join the group
Agreed upon: “We encourage you to join Karrot days 2022 group where we will co-ordinate the event and hang out, but you can also just show up to a session”
share the image! In the banner at the forum? Yes!
Karrot banner: merged on dev.karrot.world
gets it from a post on a forum thread
it will get deployed soon, together with the Quasar update, which might bring some issues
get the forum thread ready and then publish
ability to post limited to Karrot contributors only
manual, write-up, documentation [E]
thoughts, ideas, how can this look like?
what needs to be done to fulfill NLnet tasks (roles, agreement feature)
different types of documents
documentation for users not in NLnet
screen casts were started
documentation of e.g. agreemetns feature is different than manual
for roles feature there is a lot in the forum
what’s the audience?
where should it be published? form? tone?
e.g. how does the trust system work - no place to look it up
more clarity
key audience: karrot contributors
wider discource, make connection with other projects
manual different than documentation
doc: how do we design the feature, how did we do that…
worth sharing
manual: keeping up what Tais started doing, could be videos
NLnet only asks for documentation, not creating a manual
user manual/ guidance
would be nice to have
lot of basic things
‘how to get to the wall’
guide needs to be inside karrot
not only in english
interactive type guide
topic based
video in it
NLnet things could be changed, fit it in
align with own motivation
there is already a help section on the trust system
expore more maybe in co-working
discuss/decide improvement notifications conflict resolution for next weekly call [E → D?]
add another sub-item: automatically add me to the conversations in new conflict resolution proces
default: “New conflict resolution process checked”, but sub-item not checked
Bruno proposes to have the option in the conflict resolution chat
a bit of trying out in the karrot feedback team
we found out that we cannot opt out entirely of the conversation
not sure it should be off by default, especially in cases one is involved or would like to participate
would you get automatically subscribed if you write on the conversation? (default behavior on Karrot now is yes)
conflict resolution in general is an important part of Karrot
likes the idea of not everyone getting subscribed, especially if the group is big
confusion between subscribing and actually participating in the conversation
what about when there is a group of people responsible for conflict and mediation?
also a feeling of being overwhelmed by the number of people in the discussion (the little faces on it)
keep the proposal of leaving it off by default and consistent with Karrot’s notification system
new proposal from forum
we agreed to that!
review of BBB for karrot days [E]
try it out for this evening’s session?
NLnet updates?
ask for money
5. Actions/Outcomes
Vasilis will prod Dave to see what the editing messages point is about (Vasilis)
Request $ Nlnet (Nick)
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week: The Vasilitator
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
journal paper: stock foodsharing group sumbitted as a paper…governance things there, balance of structure → governance models paper, 4th paper, the smart fridge, run a workshop on that ‘smart’ style fridge, conceptualize a smart fridge, multidisciplinary workshop,
community organising with various levels of participation, human write-up ← casual article/blogspost. It can be a summary of it, scaling out rather than up, breaking the silo and Katie’s paper/work.
consented to bbb, technical intro in co-working session tomorrow
nathalie will check with chandi/matthias as we plan to use the living utopia server
planning sessions
nick & vas meet tonight and talk about breaking the silo session
bruno will be informed
slow tuesday next week again
invitations to non-karrot ppl?
fediverse?
adjacent communities we know and are connected to?
nathalie will see where to advertise it within foodsharing
updates from the invitation sent around
banner?
forum post
karrot ← needs some work
update info in karrot days group
money flow
a round in which one of us express how it felt to get the money contribution
nlnet milestones follow-up
general follow up. where we at? after the karrot days
editing wars, trust issues and group splitting
5. Actions/Outcomes
update karrot post and add the link to the meeting bbb room (Nathalie)
announce Karrot Days on the fediverse (Bruno)
reach B. from the brussels group (Nick)
write to Efa (Nathalie)
work on the banner for karrot (Nick will try, no promises though)
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week:
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
what happens to the conflict resolution when someone leaves?
it stops when you’re the subject
information about it on the vote tab
it continues when you’ve been the person starting it
no limit in parallel conflict resolution processes
knowing who is in another group?
not being in both groups after a split-up
actually you can see it on the members profil
let’s you see common groups and other groups
it shouldn’t be so visible
it is useful sometimes in ‘networks’
more options in user’s profile in the future?
culture of silence, people not speaking up
power positions in group
approving conflict resolution feature having this in mind
the more people speak up, the more comes to the surface
sensitive issues
empower people to raise a flag
problems need to be addressed, they come out sonner or later
building trust to avoid conflicts <–> dealing with conflicts when they happen (because they will)
‘how did we get so far on this’
how to identify conflicts in a group
supporting groups for good governance, e.g. agreements feature
cases when it’s a distaster, abuses - ‘toxic bomb’ in a group
Karrot team mostly separated from groups
makes it easier to talk about this critical topics
only Bruno is involved in very active local group which uses Karrot
more people with their own experiences would be great
psychological effects of self-organising
would be an interesting study
so important to (re)learn a loving way of organising (!!!) <3
‘what if’ scenarios
we could talk through them
what are the scenarios?
‘pick facilitator for next week’ move from Closing section to Opening? [Nathalie]
in the opening? yes
we try it out
Karrot Days
updating activity descriptions with full text?
proposal: faciliators do it for their session
Nicks apple sounds good, the proposal too
invitations to be sent out?
fediverse post uselful
invite bonfire
neighbs app (vas)
l200 zurich (vas)
‘every seed of connection is nice’
we did some already
add some teasers for the sessions on the Karrot group?
- ‘momentum building’
- post on karrot group?
- msg on the Karrot group wall @mentions
5. Actions/Outcomes
Share fosstodon @karrot account details with Bruno [Nick]
add BBB link to activities on Karrot days group [Nathalie]
write to Efa about karrot days [Nathalie]
invitations to groups/communities [all]
teasers Karrot days 2022 (co-working session)
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week: Bruno then! but…I am travelling i cannot do it…so…Nick it is!
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
Nathalie away next week until wednesday (away from 21th to 27th)
next meeting: next week tuesday as usual
slow tuesday, no nick, but vas checks with bruno
coworking tomorrow
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes
5 min
Share fosstodon @karrot account details with Bruno [Nick]
add BBB link to activities on Karrot days group [Nathalie]
write to Efa about karrot days [Nathalie]
invitations to groups/communities [all]
teasers Karrot days 2022 (co-working session)
4. Discussion points
how to evaluate karrot days [E]
maybe a bit of meta reflection + evaluation of karrot days itself
vas:
avoiding giving a number out of 10
it was great! didn’t expect having 10 people in a session for example, exceeded expectations, people who joined seemed very into it
a bit of disappointment that more people from the lightning talks didn’t participate in later sessions
maybe some people just wanted to jump in to give presentation then leave, hoped for more participation
would be nice to write something, like a blog post, or article, if somebody has the motivation, could go beyond a forum post, e.g. a news article, something can share with other alternative media, to report on process, a bit beyond karrot days, how we did it, how it was. also connected with the nlnet milestones, how different groups on karrot are using karrot, bringing it together. can share it with people and with nlnet.
“pestering people to come”, not very joyful/intuitive, but also worth doing it, being a prick for a while… maybe just because it’s the first time?
overlapping circles, karrot team, and groups that use karrot. not just us that have to reach out, just us accountable to them, but also both ways around. have to build the relationship, maybe pestering is worth doing. maybe should be more shared “responsibility”, not just karrot team. giving more responsibility to people who use software.
maybe rather than responsibility, it’s a sense of interdependence, from garden/CSA metaphor, have some people doing the gardening, since we’re enjoy beauty of garden, nice to help out once in a while
nathalie:
also had it in mind to write up a summary, was thinking of a forum post, other ideas are nice, but also bigger
forum post can include screenshots/pictures, to give a feeling, and link the pads with notes
also for us to have all information in one place, evaluation slides, etc. a place to find all the information
also being aware that karrot days group will be gone at some point unless we keep it alive (ok if we let it compost over time)! would be nice to have a closing post on there, can be casual
a bit confused on how to evaluate, don’t see so much follow-up evaluation, no ideas for a bigger evaluation process
was a really nice way to engage with the community, gave a sense of belonging, that they are connected through karrot, as have felt that it’s something that karrot is not providing, compared to foodsharing.de (which has an organisation), so cool to not be part of an organisation but see the connections and build on this, some groups more than others want to belong to karrot (as a community)
it’s quite some work, prompting people, etc. thinking wouldn’t personally just turn up to event from clicking on a link. personal invites make a huge difference. doesn’t Just Happen.
wondering about level of work compared to the number of people coming, put quite a lot of working into session, maybe too much for number of people attending, and maybe too stressed/professional, and couldn’t meet own expectations, wondering if too much for a small friendly group
felt very nice overall!
prompted a lot of thoughts and re-read some sociocracy stuff, some lingering questions around volunteers, and culture of allowing (fine for people to just use the software), emerging thoughts, not clear yet. would like to explore further with sociocracy people. don’t see every group taking responsibility, would be nice for more spaces where people from groups can be involved. could have a karrot group circle, and different models to ensure links.
also wondering why more people from the lightning talks stay, hard to make a session very appealing that is basically about connecting without a clear structure
wondering about open space session, maybe something clearer would help people to come, how much facilitation is needed? how to engage more with people?
thinking about future scenarios, do we want to repeat this kind of karrot days? different topic? more coding oriented? different style? in person?
nick:
how to evaluate (meta question), structured evaluation of previous things. A little bit of a structure (e.g. rose thorn, buds, open questions for the future), positive stuff + critical reflections. From unity days…cluster the two together → focus on future work. A more diffuse way might work as well
Direct evaluation: energy resourcing, felt motivated and energised afterwards, felt grounded, tanglible, rooted in experiences, there was a lot of alignment in general e.g. breaking the silo → can be on a tech way (federated protocols, dec tech) whereas breaking the silo can be more community centred, more social, less tech-centric (bolo-bolo thing might tie a lot)
evaluate how to move forward in general over the summer
writing an article for general consumption
a forum post that can be coherent, or dump enough (notes, links, writeups for the seesions, key takeaways). Those can be a nice base for writing an article
Interconnectedness between groups. Community cafe can be a way forward. Or pester sb monthy to partricipate in a ppt round
wider networking for Karrot itself: NVC stuff for example, what can we do to bring in ppl from other ‘ideas’. Network of communities of organizing. Ties in a a lot to what I have mind about bath. Resourcing the infrastructure. Resourcing: a festival, a community cafe vs isolating
what is the right number for a session? the example of the session Nick facilitated
in general I liked the number of ppl and not some random internet ppl to listen out of curiosity
emergent version: a space where ppl step in when they feel that they want to take on some responsibility. The see a a need and then ‘act’. More fluid structures.
form a ‘project circle’/‘helping circle’ for the conflict resolution design process? [E]
formalize/structure from the conflict resolution session for the design process
also a way to play with the circle structure, as a co-ordinating circle, and a temporary connected circle we give the authority to for this specific feature?
writing a little template so a group can act on it, e.g. “design the next conflict resolution feature”, and how the decision part is, give the power!
there were some discussion about power terms (e.g. leader), but maybe appoint someone here
could give Tomek a structure to act in, maybe Bruno/Vas to lead?
also seemed to happen a bit with the breaking the silo process
reporting back was kind of informal, could have more intentional reporting
Aim/expected outcome/mandate
Domain
Leader
Term/review date
A plan for membership in the circle
do we want to bring more intentionality to the structures?
Nick: bring more intentionality (YES), experiment stuff and evaluating, what would enable tomek for example to participate? There is some overlap with the design process itself which is a frame to bring in different input (ask the expert). Sociocracy by the book might not neccesarily adjust to this…reflection on the design sessions in general. What have worked? What we want to throw away. Things can surface out from a looking on session/document on design sessions. Trying to make a structured process is really hard to get this regular participation.
Vas: don’t have much to add, easier to work with people now we’ve since each others faces (people in groups), have established a relationship. a forum post is probably not enough. personal connection is important. might make sense to have more of a structured process, e.g. in a karrot group have a forum to be able to share with the karrot team? so having messages directly in the karrot team group from the groups… more direct means of communication. not sure if anything makes any sense
Nathalie: would like to see this kind of structure, based on assumption that we have the decision power, and we give it somewhere, which is probably actually the reality. more generally the topic of formalization of structure. different of feedback and decision power. aim of project circle, e.g. “design next conflict resolution feature”, could be more explicit about using the design process.
Vas: from some chats with Bruno, somehow decided not to follow the same path we did for the agreements feature, to be a bit quicker, and “good enough for now”, so didn’t open up the process so much, and less reporting. also have to take into account nlnet thing. how to balance possible funding to get with how open/participatory we are. have to submit MVP for conflict resolution by october, so needs to be part of equation.
Nick: decision power: if there is noone to enact a decision there is no much point in making a decision. Motivation (mainly intrinsic) and materials/resoruces available. Grousp of ppl making decisions and plans but totally disconnected with the ability. Alignement needs to exist. Counter-part:Develp sth that is already designed and clearly described (e.g. Freiburg group).
permacutlure design: make clear the boundaries you are working within
Nathalie: within project circle, can consider what needs to be represented, e.g. a developer, to represent software perspective, how to create ideal circle.
Nick: see’s two levels of stuff we’re talking about, how to move forward with conflict resolution design process, and the wider topics of governance of karrot project, which deserves it’s own space
Nathalie: maybe some of the sociocratic structures are too rigid for how we’re organising right now, maybe worth bringing the clarity though to the first design process meeting, to frame it more clearly, which is less than the full structural version
Vas: since there is already a process in place, some work done on breaking the silo, some input on karrot days, tending to meet tuesday night for breaking the silo. new ideas for experimentations, e.g. creating a circle, might happen more intuitively, e.g. reach out to people next week, if they join, open up the discussion, and check in with existing ideas. so build on top of existing pieces.
Nathalie: a lot of personal ponderings about sociocracy stuff, maybe winter is a good time for wider organisational structure reflection
bruno lurking and enjoying the notes
hey bruno
hope you aall having fun!
NLnet money came in!
evaluate our nlnet milestones situation
5. Actions/Outcomes
ponder “helpdesk” and/or community cafe sessions further [Nick, Vasilis]
reach out to people from karrot days about conflict resolution process, tag them on karrot, or send them a personal message [Vasilis]
karrot days next steps
what to do with the karrot days group
write a message on it! [Nathalie]
collecting the resources in a forum post [Vasilis, Nathalie…]
writing an article for general audience [Vasilis,…Nick interested in in happening and wondering how to support it :)]
background ponderings about karrot organisation structures, maybe to open up more in the winter after this season of work [anyone]
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
pick facilitator for next week: Bruno (as punishment for bailing on us this meeting)m
pick facilitator for next week*: (* a few meetings ago we decided to try and do this in the opening section)
Nathalie
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes
5 min
contact Kranti about specific issue, with mind for it becoming ongoing “helpdesk”/cafe form? [Nick]
schedule work on “Guide for participants on how to contribute (for potential contributors)” to co-working session on the 10th of August, send reminder [Bruno]
email Jos [Nick]
see about handing over co-op cloud self hosting task? [Nick]
one disk was broken but we don’t know for how long, Tilmann found out when he tried to reboot
took some time to find that out after it could not boot
a lot of organisational legacy stuff, back from Foodsharing days
got assistance from the provider Manitu and they were really nice in their support
there will probably be some costs (support + disk replacement?)
good to have at some point in the future our own server
Nick and Tilmann had to juggle a bit with their own plans, but it felt like a nice team work
it was a nice opportunity to make it human and not (work/service-like) professional to Karrot users
stressful situation, especially when it’s still not diagnosed
brings up the question of responsibility and vulnerability: if Tilmann and Nick were completely unavailable, would other people step up to fix it?
could other people in the team have been more supportive?
since it’s a very technical issue, not much in this sense, but not making it very serious and stressful helped
could we set up some kind of emergency routine?
update prototype testing [R]
testing with Daniel from Luxembourg yesterday
good insight, with ideas to fix some things
location: at the moment we create activities as part of a place, that may or may not have a location, and might be nice to be able to set a location directly for an activity
suggestion is that the email address should be verified (for signing up)
discussion around the chat, when could you join the chat? verify email? join chat before signing up?
if you want to ask a bit more about it, how would that work?
public activities being visible during the application process
e.g. introduction meetings to support onboarding processes
might be a view on the group preview page to see the public activities
some would be nicer to have as private links, rather than listed on the group preview page
might be able to facilitate better intergroup exchange, e.g. can click on another group and see what they’re up to
… and some notes to evaluate further
prototype itself had some more superficial issues, but didn’t affect the idea itself
testing with Dave tonight
do 1 or 2 more, but not a lot, and have it done
also had an idea to test with non-karrot users
for the milestone?
going through notes and memories for this breaking the silo design process, and write a short friendly text/summary, and put on the blog…
nice continuing evolution of design process, with penpot tool, etc… hopefully can empower more people to lead these processes to evolve new ideas within karrot
money flow [R]
just making sure we did it all
end of august plan another money circle
look at who is receiving money and how much, and how people felt, check balance, new people, new wishes?
nick: little pa"nick"! state (Nick) the amount of stuff and duration (1st of Oct) feel overwhelmed, ‘life struggles’ as well, resynchornize my brain with the state of reality
nat: totally relate, wasnt part of this agreement, I feel like extra (a bit), limited to the non-tech things, its good if some money come in but I m not super dependent on it, reconsider our relation with the funding
vas: also part of phd research, get pressure from supervisors to write, end of sept to write something for a conference, want to prioritise nlnet milestones, important the milestones are done to some extent, contributing to more than karrot, but personal lives of contributors, milestones signed up to are doable
bruno: thought a little already, felt a little pressure, really need to be more disciplined and mange time better, hopefully will manage to do them all, ambiguous feeling, a bit more stress, don’t like deadlines, but also a little pressure can be good, sometimes people perform better under pressure, giving structure/motivation, gives him a little more focus, trying to get balance, can relate to nicks feelings, reflections on sense of obligations, nlnet maybe used to projects like ours, if we have good communication should be no problem, are the obligation feelings about seeking validation from figures of authority? also pressure from financial aspects?
nathalie: nice to have a goal, giving some structure, low motivation so good parts of pressure, ideal would be if something is only for the money, not wanting that, but clashes with reality… leads to having no money. maybe we should say no to something in the milestones… not end up with a big crush in last week of september
vas: agree with nathalie, if we can decide in the next days that something isn’t happening, can remove some pressure? reflecting on relationships with funding institution, doesn’t currently feel like pressure from them, liked the approach to not be accountable to external orgs, but to the community (which would be totally different funding concept, e.g. crowdfunding), real-life is maybe a combination… was still good move to apply to it
bruno: I agree… continuous evaluation of what we’re going to make or scrap, do what we can do maybe crowdfunding future is good…
nathalie: in context of karrot days, was it a distraction from the milestones?
positive to privacy policy themselves, but not rushing because of app store
human perspective privacy policy would be nice
banner on testing public activities prototype [D]
idea: short text with a link to more information on a forum post, where people can find the link to the prortotype
what about the frequency of putting up new banners? We don’t want to annoy people
how long will the banner stay up if it’s not closed?
latest post about outage was deleted. Last one about Karrot Days still shows
Manual deletion is required when banner message is not relevant anymore
propose to give Bruno all the power in the world to write the message on the banner MWUAHAHAAAAAA!!
metapoint: Nick doesn’t feel consent or permission is necessary on this topic
some fixing still needed on the prototype before putting up this banner
5. Actions/Outcomes
contact Kranti about specific issue, with mind for it becoming ongoing “helpdesk”/cafe form? [Bruno]
improve public activities prototype [Bruno]
see about handing over co-op cloud self hosting task? [Nick]
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
a few things working on with Bruno, would like to hear Bruno first
Nathalie:
2 things on mind, roles feature writeup, need to sync with Nick about it, could be all completed!
a bit unsure about agreements feature, comes in 2 parts, writeup could borrow from roles feature writeup, not sure if MVP will be a thing it’s hasn’t come up much lately, milestone feels unsure
writeup for roles could be done in a few days and have some other time
document participatory processes doesn’t have a name assigned at the moment, so maybe could help out here
Nick:
a bit overwhelmed
migrate front end done
front end tests working on now
developer documentation, I m writing up a bit, wont put that as a main focus
roles is important to work on since its almost done, 2 dev parts in it, concept is pretty much there, trust for role feature ?
breaking the silo: an MVP looks possible to be done
agreements feature → not to prioritize it ( put it on the back burner)
refining places and activities: doesnt seem to have a lot of focus atm
conflict resolution: height priority
connect and engage with communities (supportive). be up for chatting
facilitating self-hosting: might be a good idea to work on it and take it more seriously
5 weeks left, not enought to do, if tasks are not those big spirally ones it might be possible though
Should we try and say Jos about those that we are not sure we are doing?
Bruno:
breaking the silo: almost done, will be delivered for sure
95% done
need a bit of prototype improvement, and a little testing, but that’s it
improving conflict resolution: depends on our ambition, but my realistic plan to be able to deliver this one is to not do a new iteration of it and actually come up with easy to do changes to the existing one, such as the one came up with already about notifications, and decide on other ideas and feedback that we got, like changing the name to “user removal” or the voting system
not so much time for whole new iteration/concepts
so maybe more narrow specific improvements
less process
maybe a couple of meetings with more than just the core
could start some sketching on the new one, whatever we can manage in the time frame, to come up with new ideas, but a full process
a bit unclear, depending on scope, could still do something? also connected to editing place types?
schedule a session to see what is feasible? would need discussion to start seeing solutions, then could maybe do some work alone on it
Vasilis:
uuuhm ok, so…
wondering about the small improvements to conflict resolution… (bruno has a list, e.g. notifications, the naming, voting system?)
idea of softer sanctions? (bruno: maybe as another iteration that is not realistic in our timeframe)
by writing up karrot days article it’s a good basis for report about connecting and engaging with communities
then can focus on “Conduct and publish writeup into how Karrot is being used”, maybe the writeup fits this? adding a bit more detail from the interviews we did would make sense
would like to work on guide for participants how to contribute, feels very do-able, could dedicate 1 meeting to do some mapping collaboratively, to create a guide that can be pinned somewhere
Bruno: Q: was there a co-working about this? yes, but did other things.
been quite involved in breaking the silo, and shit, I’m a bit spaced out, what’s the other feature, and conflict resolution, happy to be wingperson in this still
scheduling things? (numbers in priority order 1 = important!)
meeting about MVP for breaking the silo this evening 1 1 1
Nick and Nathalie sync about roles feature 1 2
coworking tomorrow
participant guide co-working 2 5 2 6
solo coworking tomorrow for vas, to get us started… (could go async, via excalidraw), maybe nick/nathalie can join in there
a few sessions for conflict resolution sketching? with others? 2 2 4 4
using scheduling tool to work times of week, maybe next week some time… Bruno will set it up
a bit more breaking the silo testing? 7 3 5
agreements feature sync (what is MVP and how would write up look?) 6 6 5 3 5
what is feasible about display of places and place type editing 7 7 5 4
are we still trying to do too much?
time window for cancelling things? is that window over?
and what about from team perspective? what can we manage?
proposing we could remove refine display of places/types/activities to remove?
but maybe there is a bit of time near the end we could do stuff in?
is there deadline extension possibility?
good to contact them
can we phrase it that we won’t get the milestones on time, and ask how to handle?
I did starting with the most recent ones. There are still unanswered mails from march and before
reorganised the forum
still some unanswered ones
4. Discussion points
dev update [R]
two things (Nick and Tilman)
front end testing. now much more useful tests (screenshare from Nick). a few types of tests and we reach the milestone of 75%
participants types, see thread on karrot group #development
has a ‘feature’ flag, add manually for groups
review meeting time/ check with Bruno [E]
Nick: check with bruno first, also in context of doing other work from mid-October for some months…
Nathalie: good that we think about this too. Next step to find someone to check in with Bruno. More flexible evening times
Vasilis: flexible in changing time
handover NL milestone [R/E]
possible to hand over. its more sel-contained and techy/specific
coop cloud people
asked and there was interest
M. would do some work and get some money, L. will mentor him and also receive some money
+better development for self-hosters
already connected somehow with M.
what’s the connection to the money circle? Unclear the communication a bit, how is connected with the money. Task not combined to the money directly, the money part is part of the money circle. Is it expected to be linked? We unlinked the milestones from money ourselves so how is it going to work here. Process level to see the money agreement.
nick (again): confusion came from money agreement. we do have a money agreement in place.
a new use case now
was nice exercise to explain the detchment of Nlnet milestones from what people get as monetary contributions
external can fit the contributors. Any leftover goes to the pot
external should they come in the money circle or the core can decide on an issue/collab with an external?
i dont see it as super necessary for a new person to come in the money circle
mini proposal: lure him to the next tuesday meeting and in the meantime sort of chat with him. Karrot team group to join if he would like to
Money Circle: Look at who is receiving money and how much, and how people felt, check balance, new people?, new wishes? [E/D]
[Bruno copied from Karrot] I can express on my part that I’d like to continue receiving the same amount if there are no budget restrictions on that
current balance: 5196€
Bruno: 200€, Nathalie: 300€, Nick: 400€
nick doing some work from mid-october
nathalie getting a bit of money from SoFA too, receiving Karrot money feels good
idea for solidarity pot of money, for groups, or people
last month of uni funding for vasilis, spending savings, considering applying for karrot money in near future
5196 / (200 + 300 + 400) is about 5 months left, only including 1 nlnet payment so far
proposal: keep numbers the same, but change the period for just next 2 months
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
Bruno: it feels quite positive, things are movin on, underline stress, reaching a deadline, looking forward to see the new feautures/significant changes, how groups will use it and give us more feedback, nt much time to do Karrot work last week, it felt good… Just generally positive
Nick: emotional, indications of doing other things to cover emotions, pushed way some local stuff, feels abstact sometimes…and stungling with that intagilbe part of connecting. Would like engage with stuff in bath. I struggle promoting it (Karrot?). I need more activating force to make things a bit more real. Sit with ppl, chat with ppl, when I do go in that directions turbulance emotions are brought up. Checked the other projects that see the potential of other similar projects like unity/karrot. A million networks that do not coperate at the end. This fucks with my head when I look on them all. Almost feel to be pushed in this other job which is not the rythm of life I m looking for. Let go a bit of Karrot and see what happens…I like this break/breathing. Leave space for someone else. There is the uncerntainty of the winter (metaphorically speaking). And the non-metaphorical. Instead of capitalist work put insulation in ppls houses.
Vasilis: in a mix between what bruno and nick said. have to be positive, in terms of karrot, deadline, committed, work my ass off… more like burnout coming, in terms of karrot. too many things, and too lonely. writing big texts. not sure it’s worth the effort, who’s going to read these things? also fun, and enjoyable, and going to be win/win for phd too… feel unmotivated at the same time. too much going on the last two months. not only with karrot. in zurich, every day come to meet new people doing nice “community” projects, but can’t really find the purpose behind them, or align. a bit of community-washing, green-washing… why do I judge them? don’t feel emotionally sober to be judging them fairly. just like some old guy that knows everything saying “you kids don’t know shit”, don’t feel good in that role. need a celebration after nlnet deadline, not sure what though. since not in the right headspace, takes ages to do something that shouldn’t spend so much time on. e.g. going through notes for way too long. should take 1.5h, but takes a whole day. mixed feelings. inspired by Bruno saying he feels positive. (“THINK POSITIVE!” says bruno in an ironic tone mimicing a positivity coach). this chat is super important to have, even though we “should” be running to the milestones… nice to create the space for this.
Nathalie: notes on sociocracy and NVC, in the last sesion we talked about I have to and I should do. The should is kind of judging path. How u rephrase it to choose to and not choose to. We choose to talk about NLnet milestones. We could also say that we do not choose to talk about the NLNet milestones. It is quite interesting to know and think about those choises. OK. back to Karrot. I def noticed that I need to rebalance a bit with the increasing bit I m doing with SOFA also struggle a bit there to do the hours I commited to. There are other things, in terms of NLnet and milestones I am also to finish the things I ve commited, I m still quite relaxed about hte things and I can manage, it feels like a lingering pressure but ontheotherside my focuses leved increased again. I noticed I havent been in this project space for a year. I was actively missing to do some work things but not it feels nice to have some tasks now but I m sensitive not to overcomit and make it a slow progression. The only bit I am struggling is the structuracoe…what’s this team…how it compares to the community…not that I struggle but…I like believing in things I do…the deeper I go (in sociocracy)…try to make it sense in a general way. Is it now the new standard for me? Also I should be aware of having some more flexbility. I find it diffucult with contibution/roles that are not rooted in a communication net. It is more of a theoritical concern.
it is nice having those convos. It feels like a breathing out (nick), expressing my own bit of life but listen to others.
standing up about this fringe work…small talk kind of thing (so what do u do??). I stick on my pretty ‘normal’ job which sounds pretty straitfoward. Non commecial stuff that I dont get money from…explaining Karrot is not that straightfoward. It kind of sucks having this that all the time u have to explain yourself.
recently self-employed…this feels more like ppl can relate to. I m getting a bit back/closer to society. I do see the rising costs now…it is actually in a weird sense…i do enjooy a bit the connecting bit of it. Its not that I can cut out society completely. I belived that for a bit. I m now reviewing this cut-off and it now feels nice to back a bit. I feel that I am going a little bit more to a more accepted by society state.
Resonate a lot with being back connected to society and see the struggles. I feel more connected.
Tricky tning is to be connected but get the space to do your other things (in and out)
Nathalie: voting system: I would keep as it is and the rest I m happy to revisit this evening
Bruno: pass #idontcareaboutkarrot
Nick: my quick sense is that we keep what we have. Minor changes. Potentially we open up more we can handle if we openup the voting system. Didnt sound like a screaming need. Still nice to improve but for now we could keep the current one
Vasilis: not a lot of people mentioned issues with the voting system, would like another one, but if we just added another one it might have it’s own issues
new standard time for weekly call?
bruno, evenings
vasilis, mon/tue seems useful
continue to think/discuss… online
a poll?
dev/nlnet update [R/E]
another rfp submitted
tilmann
place type editing
mergeable very soon
places display
start on, bruno sketching, … chats on karrot
trust for role
has looked at nathalies penpot designs
tilmann/nathalie can connect on it
nick
participant types
need: help working stuff, see Karrot (and scroll down a bit)
conflict resolution
hopefully decide stuff that can be developed from now
public activities
aiming to start on it next week
bruno can evolve prototype if more ideas, not a lot significant though
aiming for minimal features
agreements
michal / co-op cloud update [R/E]
have shared with michal how money/technical/organisational stuff should work
time limit is tricky, enough time for next week? or async/meeting?
decision/objections to be raised online?
nick to continue arranging stuff, share things in karrot, include time/location of meeting if/when organised
also nice to invite to next call, not just/only for decision stuff, but also social side, getting to know
communities using Karrot report updates [R]
takes more time then expected, feels lonely, but also somehow nice, reflecting back on what we’ve learned
interesting that we have so much input from the groups, but then have to face reality of the MVP
opening up the process, so many ideas that make sense
and then in real life not so easy to implement them, nice to admit
plan to have it finished within a week, each interviewing taking a day to decode, making notes on notes, thinking how to make readable text, not just bullet points, something people can read and make sense of, and we can read it too
quite dynamic what happens in the groups, quite a bit of input during covid, would be interesting to see how groups deal with stuff now, everything had got quite remote, and aspect of community fading out, so how is it changing now?
tonnes of information! about all the different groups, each group has it’s own ecology, super interesting, one way to decentre karrot as the focus, karrot is the medium/faciliator, but alongside karrot there are other faciliators
getting more involved in foodsharing.de in zurich, time online on foodsharing.de compared to not online… digital is just a tiny bit of the ecology, but very important and central. focusing on small tool, spending hours on hours discussing about really small part of the chain… and also super important.
walk through screenshare of place type editing [R]
Next time
plan a release after Nlnet’s deadline [E]
plan a celebration after Nlnet’s deadline [E]
welcome Luke/ Michal
5. Actions/Outcomes
continue exploring new standard time for weekly call [?]
code like mad!
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
walk through for participant types language stuff (nick/nathalie) [D]
could remove raw json parts of history info thing… even if just participant types for series change?
missing icon for “meeting no longer available” notification, an X cross type of thing
one notification per activity removed to include the date/time in the message
all link to the same history still (which is the only place that they can see the custom message in the UI)
when editing the series description, the activities are not being updated…
make the push notifications mirror what the notificaions do (e.g. 1 per activity), and use the custom message as the body… (make sure to include name of person who wrote it too)
Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
