proposal to take away the “reference is 15€/h”. Feels not applicable
could do minor tweaks for clarity,
like the part about “make a living” which is really not about money.
change “decide each agreement individually” to “together”
3 levels more like a guideline and not a must
likes the text
would also remove the 15/h reference
agrees with the togetherness, mutual agreement
maybe add a sentence making it clear the levels of contributions are suggestion only.
everybody agrees on removing the “reference is 15E/h” bit
everybody agrees on changing “individually” to “together”
leave the other suggestions for the next one
next agreement review in 6 months - 5th of May 2023
do money circle
Vas: PhD funding ends officially on December, will have more expenses this year, rents and loan. Suggestion to receive 200GBG/230EUR for the next 3 months
Nathalie: put herself as occasional contributor but would like to be promoted to committed. Feels it’s hard to count the hours, would like to not think in those terms. Financial situation still not sustainable. Was considering getting more from Karrot, but would like to see if it works with the amount on the Karrot account. Would like to stay the same probably, 300EUR/month
Nick: loads of money coming in from capitalist work, but money for the boat. It makes sense to go down, not strictly about the time worked. Maybe go down from 400EUR to 200EUR, freeing up 200 to others
Bruno: good so far, covering more of our expenses and for how long? I think I m fine with the amount I receive now, if we had 1mil I would defo go up to raise, interesting to do the calculaton again just to be aware of how much room we have. It’s OK as it is now. 200 euros for now. Things might change in a couple of months, inflation.
Nick proposes going down to 100EUR and increase to others
Nathalie feels more comfortable with 400EUR but feels Nick should not go down just becaue of current work
Agreed that Nat will go for 400
Nick: 100€
Nathalie: 400€
Bruno: 200€
Vas: 230€
agreed! review in 3 months February 2023
paying michal/et al
they’d like to take 1500€ and add another 20h of work to make the package really nice
release planning/ remaining tutorials
only one left: participant type and trust for role
also left: post with bullet points for each feature
short text for the banner
short intro text and index and then we link there the forum posts related to tutorials
not much talk about it, server is also running KH stuff
one time thing, seems fine
appreciation and gratitude from Karrot side to Kanthaus
thank you!
Tilmann and Karrot!?
who is in the Karrot team? one discussion where the question came up who to mention
be in the calls
clarify contribution and communication
receive a bit of money too
what tilmanns says
fixed day with a call didn’t fit in life
involved with Karrot stuff still
lot of maintenance work, not so much a topic in the calls
get back again with maintenance, occasionally with coding
not get back to feature discussion, that’s too much
way more involved in Nlnet that originally planned, could imagine doing something like this again
Karrot team is vague still, seems to be a distinction between team and contributors
on the outer team
‘team’ not super clear within Karrot, first time when starting the Karrot group
in-person dev connections are nice, second person to discuss with
doing everything with people is nice
integrate worlds: user and dev side
defined membership is a big thing in sociocracy
let’s keep all connected, know each other
point person from “team” between “team” and a very active contributor?
commitment to Karrot
How does Karrot fit into life without being a side show?
long-term sustainibility of a project
“team” discussion is bigger than this point
also connected to legal topic
grow and adapt Karrot into our lifes
nice to say hello again, confirm status-quo
money: bigger topic, no need for Karrot money now, motivated to contribute to next funding, at some point participate in money round again, let’s have a look next year again, next money circle february 3rd 2023
dedicate a call on money and Tilmann-Kanthaus? maybe december
Release of new features
technical process
all of the updates dont have the nice entry, needs some fiddlng
groups and future flag (which?) and how to communicate
Nick doesnt have the capacity for now, would just leave it
Nat: many resources around governance topic, community: if the programme involves reading some of these bits, that would be interesting
maybe there is more gain for individuals
could sofa fit?
a bit unsure yet
sociocary will end in January
could have capacity for that
a bit hesitand to comit
Bruno:
5. Actions/Outcomes
re-write conflict resolution process [Vas] - edit the existing post
video about participant types and roles [Nathalie]
karrot and feedback group discussion aboout email to sent over to codeforsociety [Vas]
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
List of ideas
making a tutorial(s), writing a manual/ handbook
future roadmap, plan
general direction for Karrot in the future? the conceptual part? more solid conceptual framework
in-person meeting \o/
‘Legalizing’ Karrot? Building a legal structure we can use?
bank account/ legal structure, open collective
governance structure of Karrot/ Karrot ‘team’
Server structure, connection with foodsharing.de and Kanthaus
sociocracy and Karrot
how sociocracy could support groups
idea of commons
if there are shared resources in a group = commons (e.g. a cargo bike) can this be supported by karrot. e.g. a feature for shared items? \
finding partnerships to do some on the ground testing. related to a funding or part maybe. (the idea that Nick explained recently), a network, a movement, outreach a more specific one
outreach: establish network and partnerships, maybe connecting with local movements
re-contextualise Karrot towards a more-generalised tool
a mind map of these ideas, to visualize and revisit them → have a focused session on this
Hey Karrot friends! In the following weeks a series of new Karrot features will be deployed. More info and video tutorials soon!
(announcement when features are released and tutorials are uploaded)
previous:
!NEW and REFINED Karrot features!: Membership Review (REFINED), Places (REFINED), Agreements Feature (NEW), Public Activities (NEW), Participant types and Approved Role (NEW). More info and video Tutorials here: link
current idea:
Already on dev community announcements:
Yay! New and refined features on Karrot just out of the oven! Check them out here.
happy for changes whoever is doing the banner
feels complete!
wise verification for Vas is done [R]
he got his cash! done, boom!
codeforsociety funding [D]
talked about it on last co-working
Vas and Nathalie think it’s interesting and cool. They got the feeling it will be mostly them. Motivated
Some question still on how it works
Vas sent e-mail introducing Karrot and how we work. Waiting for reply
question: would it be possible for other team members to join the sessions?
how much of a weekly commitment?
does there need to be a legal entity to get the stipendium?
Vas and Nat would like to apply (if the commitment is not too big, still waiting for the answer)
Nathalie could use some of the extra money (totally see it as Karrot money on the first place) and we can discuss this on the money circle
Bruno interested in jumping in later maybe
Bruno says go for it
Vas and Nat work on application next wednesay, post draft and seek final feedback from team until friday.
Next time:
open applications Karrot Team and Feedback group [E/D]
there are many inactive Karrot groups in Italy. Do we still have contact? How to deal with those groups?
next call: december 13th
5. Actions/Outcomes
re-write conflict resolution process [Vas] - maybe done?
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
List of ideas
making a tutorial(s), writing a manual/ handbook
future roadmap, plan
general direction for Karrot in the future? the conceptual part? more solid conceptual framework
in-person meeting \o/
‘Legalizing’ Karrot? Building a legal structure we can use?
bank account/ legal structure, open collective
governance structure of Karrot/ Karrot ‘team’
Server structure, connection with foodsharing.de and Kanthaus
sociocracy and Karrot
how sociocracy could support groups
idea of commons
if there are shared resources in a group = commons (e.g. a cargo bike) can this be supported by karrot. e.g. a feature for shared items? \
finding partnerships to do some on the ground testing. related to a funding or part maybe. (the idea that Nick explained recently), a network, a movement, outreach a more specific one
outreach: establish network and partnerships, maybe connecting with local movements
re-contextualise Karrot towards a more-generalised tool
a mind map of these ideas, to visualize and revisit them → have a focused session on this
Date: 2022-12-02 19:30 CET
Where: Jitsi Meet
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Vas
1. Opening
10 min Check in
5 min ADMIN
attendance (write down participants)
duration: 1h30 total
information: any non-karrot announcements? unavailabilities?
SoFA: Nathalie joined helping circle called ‘Software for SoFA’, might be interesting to discuss Karrot in this context!
next meeting:
next Wednesday co-working
next friday general
pick facilitator for next week: you? your karrot needs you!: Vasilitator
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes
5 min
re-write conflict resolution process [Vas] - maybe done?
4. Discussion points
release celebration []
Nick way to reconnect with Karrot, happy that we did it. it felt nice having tutorlias, banner, felt like a team work. Felt the presence of eveyone contributed, a nice togetheness thing/feeling, tech issues: manual work, jolly fair pizza and spamminmg the thread, basic reality of what is actually going on
Nathalie: promising for the future, after some slow down. enjoyed the wave of interaction with people afterwards, e.g. Daniel and Dave, and even if the emails are about the app not working, it was still fun answering them, and Bruno doing the video was nice, felt vivid. glad to hear the preparations landed nicely.
Vasilis: really enjoyed the conversation with preparing pizza whilst deploying it, nice to bring this everyday shit into the conversation. would be nice to write down the reactions we had already. wondering which emails came in? 2 or 3 came in, maybe info@karrot.world? wondering if it was about complaining. basic infrastructure can be invisible, but whe it crashes, people come in…so you find out how useful something is when something goes down. remembering when the server went down. reminds us it’s useful and people use it, it’s important for thaeir daily activities. when the bridge goes down, invisible infrastructure becomes visible. got tricked by the different way to sign into an activity, looks nice though now.
Karrot app support [D]
proposal: we don’t support the app from Google play Store anymore.
for several reasons it’s not woring any more
we already started to communicate that we’re not supporting it any more
but didn’t probably Decide it
no one is motivated to fix data privacy issue in Play store (it’s some kind of legal text)
resistance to rush and do something to please google
also a few technical issues
seems good opertunity now to usw PWA
we never had ios either
data privacy policy wasn’t required before, then it was…
unlear what triggered the change
Nick: remove it from appstore, PWA + tutorials, scroll bottom for notifications to enable them, remove the app code as well? looks the same but works differently, tilman likes removing all code, I d leave around for a while at least, Karrot agremenets to put this in as well
Nathale: have a bigger picture now, maybe a bigger decision than previously thought, because it has impact at the code level, would have been nice to have it in playstore for outreach purposes, PWA version though works very nicely, and funtionality is good, fine to tell people we have a PWA app app, and teach people how to use it. so can overcome the outreach point. so maybe two level process, leave the code there for now, and review in the future. ok to let go of the google thing.
Vasilis: understand the outreach point, would karrot come up when people type “food waste” in google play store? … but then if it doesn’t make any difference how the app functions, then using the PWA (Progressive Web App) seems good. maybe good to announce this to the groups. maybe some groups noticed it broken, but just switch to another tool. maybe a banner would be useful. wonders if the app-related code would still be available if others wanted to fork (it would).
Proposal. We don’t support the app from Google play Store anymore. We encourage the usage of our PWA and provide support on how to use it. It comes in 2 parts:
1) remove from play store
2) review code removing
term: 4 months
consent
some meta discussion came up about how many people is enough to consent (no absentee policy)
maybe something we should start discussing
we’ll give it one more week, and ping bruno and tilmann to check for consent
idea: to have it as an agreement on our group
Nathalie would like to add ‘Privacy Policy’ to our List of ideas [R]
no need to about it today
it seems nobody is against having one, and might be good to share our ideas about data privacy
there are many inactive Karrot groups in Italy. Do we still have contact? How to deal with those groups?
next call: december 13th
knowledge sharing: how to enable feature flag features [Nathalie]
5. Actions/Outcomes
re-write conflict resolution process [Vas]
make a post about app agreement in our group [Nathalie]
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
List of ideas
making a tutorial(s), writing a manual/ handbook
future roadmap, plan
general direction for Karrot in the future? the conceptual part? more solid conceptual framework
in-person meeting \o/
‘Legalizing’ Karrot? Building a legal structure we can use?
bank account/ legal structure, open collective
governance structure of Karrot/ Karrot ‘team’
Server structure, connection with foodsharing.de and Kanthaus
sociocracy and Karrot
how sociocracy could support groups
idea of commons
if there are shared resources in a group = commons (e.g. a cargo bike) can this be supported by karrot. e.g. a feature for shared items? \
finding partnerships to do some on the ground testing. related to a funding or part maybe. (the idea that Nick explained recently), a network, a movement, outreach a more specific one
outreach: establish network and partnerships, maybe connecting with local movements
re-contextualise Karrot towards a more-generalised tool
a mind map of these ideas, to visualize and revisit them → have a focused session on this
there are many inactive Karrot groups in Italy. Do we still have contact? How to deal with those groups?
I think it would make sense to try and reach out to them and maybe try and connect them with the AIGU? Maybe its groups created by one person before setting up a group offline which has been the case with other groups but it can be different as well. Groups that do things but Karrot didnt work for them? The possiblity I see is that AIGU suggest the use of karrot to communties since I got the vide that they do not engage with fsharing directly themselves [vas]
next call: december 13th
I ll be there [vas]
another mail from recup (Italy)
we see that Natalie replied
lets see what they write back
open applications Karrot Team and Feedback group [E/D]
is that a practical or meta question?
who we let in and who not?
declining the two pending ones but with a text
is someone responsible for receiving applications?
maybe not. we do it as we do it now. whoever is available, in mood
proposal: We don’t support the app from Google play Store anymore. We encourage the usage of our PWA and provide support on how to use it. It comes in 2 parts:
remove from play store
review code removing
term: 4 months
I think we need consent on that from Tilman. Bruno already gave consent on the Karrot group post that Nathalie made [vas]
how to guide the process of reporting to us/ feature requests
I liked what Nick said last time when I suggested that we make it sth simple. He suggested that if sth is super simple like a ‘live chat’ thingy which is not the approach we want to take. However it would mmake sense to have reports/feature requests in the same place and in a place that ppl can go to. I d suggest either forum or our Karrot group. I d favor our Karrot group as I feel its a bit easier to step in than forum. However forum is more public and ppl dont need to apply and get aceepted etc [vas]
if we feel that there is some liveness in the karrot group because they already use karrot maybe we use forum to do some documentation. feedback and bugs coming all over so we can then organise it on the forum or still create a place on karrot, or feedback. for bugs if its sth that should be made a github issue.
we try and do some curation on the forum
general feedback, suggestion and ideas are welcome anywhere: the wall of the more including place for that
we (karrot team) do some curation and organise this info in a specific category in the forum
have the discussion where ppl are
bug reports the same thing but we curate them on github
knowledge sharing: how to enable feature flag features [Nathalie]
U mean knowledge sharing internaly? So its not only Nick and Tilman the ones that have to do it? [vas]
no time for this point
any updates from the applicaton we submitted?
@nick have u checked karrot inbox?
make a post (banner) to inform ppl about the PWA?
I saw post in a lot of group I m a member of ppl wondering what happpened with the app? So i think we need to make clearer how the PWA can be used [vas]
5. Actions/Outcomes
Banner for the PWA
Check inbox
Welcome and write back to Hubert
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
List of ideas
making a tutorial(s), writing a manual/ handbook
future roadmap, plan
general direction for Karrot in the future? the conceptual part? more solid conceptual framework
in-person meeting \o/
‘Legalizing’ Karrot? Building a legal structure we can use?
bank account/ legal structure, open collective
governance structure of Karrot/ Karrot ‘team’
Server structure, connection with foodsharing.de and Kanthaus
sociocracy and Karrot
how sociocracy could support groups
idea of commons
if there are shared resources in a group = commons (e.g. a cargo bike) can this be supported by karrot. e.g. a feature for shared items? \
finding partnerships to do some on the ground testing. related to a funding or part maybe. (the idea that Nick explained recently), a network, a movement, outreach a more specific one
outreach: establish network and partnerships, maybe connecting with local movements
re-contextualise Karrot towards a more-generalised tool
a mind map of these ideas, to visualize and revisit them → have a focused session on this
what does it need for our agreement to be decided?
We don’t support the app from Google Play Store anymore. We encourage the usage of our PWA and provide support on how to use it. It comes in 2 parts:
remove from play store
review code removing (when term ends)
Term: 4 months
Tilmann gave feedback too (‘let’s do it!’)
it’s decided
we’ll put it in the agreements list
Issues with PWA and notifications
Vas and Nathalie and Bruno do not get notifications
investigate further
make a post (banner) to inform ppl about the PWA?
there is some insecurity to promote the PWA on the banner
Nathalie took some time to make up her mind, but she’s fine about the banner
Bruno also not completely sure but it might be still useful for some people and we get some feedback for things not working
“We no longer support the app on Play Store! But there’s another way to make Karrot work nicely on your mobile. Read more”
it’s live!
how to guide the process of reporting to us/feature requests
most natural and easiest way for users is the Karrot group, Karrot group not the best place to organise nicely though
idea: we (Karrot team) do organisation and curation of incoming ideas from the Karrot group on to the forum, incoming bug reports are put on github
Nathalie would like to engange more with github
Q: can user go directly to forum/ github? yes, sure
Q: which way do we promote if someone is approaching us with an idea? probably more direct reactions on Karrot group → point to Karrot group
sounds like a good workflow
lot’s of work already, we could start to organise the input we got after the release
what are next steps?
write something on Karrot and get feedback on this workflow
start to organise a bit
another place called “Feedback” maybe? - no, let’s use main wall!
Next up
knowledge sharing: how to enable feature flag features [Nathalie]
any updates from the applicaton we submitted?
5. Actions/Outcomes
put the decision of not supporting the app on Play Store on the agreements list [Nathalie]
write something on Karrot and get feedback on this workflow [Bruno]
6. Closing Ceremony
10 min
checkout
Appendix
What the letters mean
[R] Report (clarifying the information) - one person telling something to everyone, so everyone gets clarity on the subject, can ask questions, but not really discussion, etc…
[E] Exploration (hearing reactions & ideas) - share our opinions, reactions, hear what everyone things, what’s on our mind
[D] Decision (making a decision) - final step to bring it together to a decision
List of ideas
making a tutorial(s), writing a manual/ handbook
future roadmap, plan
general direction for Karrot in the future? the conceptual part? more solid conceptual framework
in-person meeting \o/
‘Legalizing’ Karrot? Building a legal structure we can use?
bank account/ legal structure, open collective
governance structure of Karrot/ Karrot ‘team’
Server structure, connection with foodsharing.de and Kanthaus
sociocracy and Karrot
how sociocracy could support groups
idea of commons
if there are shared resources in a group = commons (e.g. a cargo bike) can this be supported by karrot. e.g. a feature for shared items? \
finding partnerships to do some on the ground testing. related to a funding or part maybe. (the idea that Nick explained recently), a network, a movement, outreach a more specific one
outreach: establish network and partnerships, maybe connecting with local movements
re-contextualise Karrot towards a more-generalised tool
a mind map of these ideas, to visualize and revisit them → have a focused session on this
Nathalie: Germany, sociocracy, foodsharing, joined Karrot beinning of 2022
Bruno: in Sweden, became aware of Karrot 5 years ago, more and more involved, interested in design, concepts, organising, voluntary basis, interest: long-term sustainibilty of Karrot (e.g. financial), father of two kids
Sven: coding in html and css, text based, games, include new features to Karrot, from Austria, based in Vienna
Q: programming language in Karrot? viewjs frontend, django (python) backend
New and refined features on Karrot just out of the oven! 
]
