really nice work, already gives a lot of clarity, appreciate it!
would push more in the nlnet style of milestones, splitting out the money, and how to include Wilhelm
are the hosting collective also getting money?
does foodsharing sweden want to pay someone to design/develop the pages?
still a bit of a mix of what karrot is doing and what FSS is doing
so could make it more into a plan
one stumble over for support and training for first couple of years? when will it be completed… doesn’t feel easy to commit to, at some point money will be paid, could make a promise rather than a task to hold for years
also thinking about money for travelling costs
Nick:
appreciate work!
who feels responsible for task, who is supportive, time line to reuse
thinking about task organising and work strategy
happy to do a bunch of stuff, set up some things or set up infrastructure
useful to start conversation with hosting provider
timescale, some things might come quite soon
separation between general agreement of intention to collaborate and task oriented document
model of how to work with orgs using karrot, connects to strategy work, this could be our usual model in the future, thinking of different relations
Bruno:
nice to hear
realise my thoughts/concerns are around the boring/administrative stuff from FSS perspective
dealing with questions of money and payments
milestones make sense but in this project there is a total sum in one transaction
have to keep tied a bit to the original proposal to the funding source, has a set of things to be delivered, but not broken down in details
they would appreciate allocating some money for hosting, not clear how that works at the moment, some options
how would invoicing work if there is no legal entity for karrot?
bureaucracy like this has meant I avoided applying before
how to compensate Wilhelm, or others, if they work on it
on paper, Karrot is delivering a service, and invoicing for that, then delivering it
many questions still to resolve
idea for Wilhelm to contribute as part of Karrot, trying to include him as part of Karrot more broadly
a friend of Brunos working on design more broadly, logo, colour pallette, not sure how much they’d go into website design
would make sense to have a more general agreement, first paragraph? and then dividing tasks as a separate working document?
Nathalie:
still would like more clarity on how we would divide the money
could speak soon, e.g. in co-working, about legal and money things, maybe helpful to think through it more
Nick:
relationship with hosting provider - inside or outside scope?
technical bits on how to get money in, could invoice as freelance business that would be tax liable
Bruno:
how to divide money? internal for Karrot to decide, from FSS perspective one amount + things to provide, would be great to talk in co-working about that
hosting people seem up for doing some kind of solidarity hosting and costs
could draft a simple agreement based on first paragraph, and maybe can make a decision on that
will contact Wilhelm, propose to do work through Karrot
questions of why, how long, travel costs, maybe march?
Bruno:
would be great to welcome us all in March
hopefully can decide an approximate date that works, then can decide on some of the logistics
how long? over a weekend seems too short, maybe a longer period of time? depends on how we plan what we do whilst we here, but nice to include a weekend, especially if a workshop to have it on the weekend
could stay for a week in total, or even more? will hopefully have apartment still, if I still have it, have place for 4, or even 5 or 6, depending on getting mattresseseseses, not a big place, only one bedroom, bunk bed, single bed, sofabed - walk in closet that can fit a mattress even
Nathalie:
thats nice!
quite flexible in March, maybe not first weekend, sounds do-able
easter holidays is beginning of April, so maybe not that weekend
travelling doesn’t seem that expensive, 60EUR each way
taking Bristol days as a reference…
good idea to do workshop with FSS/others? butze was also very interested
maybe a couple of Karrot focused days, arriving, planning, then the weekend as highlight, then some team/leisure time … would be about a week, a few days before, then weekend, then a few days after
sleeping situation sounds plenty of room
Nick:
sounds nice, getting excited!
a week sounds a nice time, Siegen and Luxembourg trip were shorter
weekend at the center sounds good too
space sounds great
picking the date, travel planning and booking, the rest can come later
get costs covered for UK - Gothenburg
sovereign tech conversation, bring in that dialogue
hack-session for karrot, are people interested?
do write-up, article coming from it, speak about this approach of organising
Wednesday or Thursday regarding travel costs? Will figure that out later
quick feedback roles
Bruno sharing experience from his group
seems to be working well in my group
noticed someone has assigned a role to the wrong place
one person went to the approved role and wrote their name
would need to ask more ppl about their exp,
group specific roles:
place person,
store responsible persons
board roles
welcoming group
mediators, just starting that group now
Nathalie:
self-assign seems to work
in my group for the neighboorhood, ppl use the edit to put their name down, reminded me of how roles were used on Got
Nick:
seems good
also wonder how it will evolve
add a role, write on the wall, not so integrated
encounter prompts to get a role, or flag up roles that are up for grabs
karrot-team role, self-assign on our group and start makign exclusive activities for specific roles (i.e., karrot-team role)
automatic chats, getting notifications based on your roles
dave in robin, likes the roles, creating a budge of roles, got rid of the approved role
Jay:
cool to have it, gives me ideas, as Nathalie was saying, there are other things that could be standardised
dont want to bringing lots of ideas that I do not implement
when self-assign a role, click YES, looks like nothing happened, so you need to cancel
Vas
got karrot team role!
how to make it more integrated in the system
Bruno
attach group wide roles to place afterwards? no, archive role and create new
where do we stand with the strategy?
Nick:
would like to revive the energy in it, we had a nice base
normal weekly meeting so its maximun availability
very alive and important topic to progress
Bruno:
next step is to decide a date for the second sesssion
Vas:
very happy to proceed and try second session
Nathalie:
happy to proceed as well, really benefits from prep, if nick and bruno are motivated, meeting to prepare and then propose a day, happy to adjust if some prep is gonna take place
Jay:
enjoyed last session we had,
tuesday works generally for me
Nick:
next steps:
chat with Bruno
aim for a tuesday to do it
next week or the one after?
picking a date: Tuesday the 27th of Jan ← proposed date, consented
Nathalie: overall board, familiar to me, workmode sociocracy for all using a lot, surprisingly structured for Karrot, 2 immediate reactions, duplicates, confusing that some things appear as both strategy and tactics, 2nd strong reaction, linkedin (NO, NO, NO), more aligned things, minimal outreach, start outreach to allies and the media we are using already. Would like to discuss it. More aligned ways before trying out more mainstream things?
Nick: good step foward overall, lines…how do I get out of a box?, wondering how to relate it to the Karrot orbit, what is the relation? Material network (the orbit), this is more high level, agree with Nathalie, I am not touching Linkedin but no rejection if someone else, I imagine they don’t use Linkedin, Mastodon 1500 followers already in lots of ppl on community organising, ppl seem to like posts we do there already, like the idea of small WG doing sth, the assesment still makes me wonder how we can make it not very reductive, we could do sth like how many activities? or sth else to weight (e.g., how many users signed up or develop some metrics of general activity, sending msgs). High level look quite clear, dont massively overlap. What we go forward as a next bit?
Bruno: Like the overview, broader categories make sense, look closer to rework the actions, one thing I ‘ve missed prioritisation or logical sequence, “do this first and then move to the other”, how do we pitch Karrot so we can reach out to different organisations. Mapping future organisations to contact.
Vas: working group can map org to contact. There is no prioritazation there. Assessment: get Nick’s approach, think about meaningful metrics. About LinkedIn: from makerspace experience, good to reach other organizations that could collaborate, that is one strategy, another is e-mails.
What we go forward as a next bit? Where we go from now? What do we do next? Where do we start with?
Nathalie:
left column, is this a good set of strategic aims? Work on first and get consent, work on WG, 2 are not very clear, ‘enhance opportunities with…’ not sure what its meant? What is meant with a collaborationn with academics? Expand community engagement? Develop intentional partnerships. Partnership is more than funding. Takeaway: More clarity on the two aims I pointed out.
Nick:
Had a way to understand these two aims: Outreach to new org and academics we dont have with already
Expand collaboration: groups already using Karrot, connections/partnerships with other orgs such as CoopCloud, outward and inward
Suite of strategic aims, form a little team, present it diffferently, Strategic aims as a suite, actions undertaken by WGs, reflection on which strategic aims the actions prioritise but might also feed others, sth a pitch deck document could be a resource to use with specific audiences (e.g., mini pitch website), connect with groups and ask them to ‘endorse’ karrot with a photo and a line about how Karrot important has been for their work, we are not 'shouting the story’ the way it is. Tighten up the strategic aims (first) and find ppl’s motivations (what do they want to do), not a huge number of things, Reflection period (what is the timescale to do reflections), strategy - refleciton - iteration and so on
Bruno:
Agree more or less with the above, how to go ahead, bring this up again.
Vasilis:
agree with what was shared
wish to come out with something I can go back to and refer to, act on something we have agreed on
works for me to work with a working group and a timeline as we did for nlnet
aims are subjective, as they are my summary, Tried to use open language
someone else to rework the board? and bring back to meeting
Nathalie: review strategic aims
take it out of the table, reform the strategy overview, bring some more fluidity
Nick: now or set it as a commitment to tweak the high level, put them into another visual form, borrowing on how we did NLNET, unify ways of working, co-working tomorrow
Bruno: agree on the above
Vasilis: re-work strategic aims and the visualization
on visualization (excalidraw), the bubbling ideas (actionable outcomes) connect to different strategic aims and can become a commitment as soon as one or more people take on it
we’ve got the pictures inspired on our nlnet excalidraw to see who is doing what and what the status of the task is
6 strategic aims:
Grow Karrot’s user base
Create more collaborations with other projects, organisations, academics
Deepen engagement and participation with communities that use Karrot
Clarify roles, capacities, and responsibilities within the Karrot-team
Work towards long-term financial resilience
Develop effective communication, positioning, and story
self-assign commitments
Reactions
Bruno
really nice to see! gives me more clarity
exactly the kind of thing I wanted to have to keep track of work and place myself
also fine if tasks/ commitments are not that specific (yet), person who’s doing it can break it down
is there something to add to it? or complete already?
Vas
happy with the messiness so far, could make another excalidraw without the notes (remove clutter)
left out measuring, assessment, try to integrate it
how do we move from there once a commitment is formed? should there be a consensus for each activity? e.g. linkedin question (whether we use it)
strategy meeting in Göteborg? do it all together
Nathalie
ideas not complete yet, nice if everyone could review it
we could consent today on strategic aims, people not here but very similar to what we did before
same question as Vas: would also look for consent on commitments
Consent round on strategic aims above
Nathalie: appreciate the little tweaks from the 1st iteration, last one about communication slightly unclear abit, but good enough. I consent
Vas: some dilemmas about the last one, but good enough. Consent overall. Second thoughts about roles capacities and responsibilities, but ok
Bruno: is it inclusive enough of the things we discussed so-far? not foodsaving communities? while not explicit feels included, Good enough therefore I consent
Next steps
notify other Karrot team members, we could ask for their consent too. We don’t have a clear procedure, reaching out in this case is nice
in general we can make decisions in meetings with members missing, as this is more fundamental agree with reaching out
review and add bubbling ideas
continue assignments and commitments
one idea is to ask consent when one commits to one of the bubbling ideas
Vas would like full consent and can make a post on the group
still the question: how do we measure and assess progress?
Gbg trip
finalise dates (when ppl arrive - leave?)
Nathalie: Wednesday the arriving on the 18th - 25th
Vas: cheapest option on 20th, need to look for 18th, needs to coordinate with uni too, stay till 25th
what to bring?
sleeping bag? mat? Bruno can organise things, Vas doesn’t need to bring anything!
check with Butze, Jay
make a post on the karrot gtb place
budgeting
do we use any Karrot money for the trip?
Bruno: suggested that before
Nathalie: positive for using Karrot money, give an estimate, around 60-80 × 2 = 160 E travelling. Seems doable
Vas: generally positive, need to look at the numbers and agree on that, like what is the cap. Would keep as a discussion point for next week, coming back with some amounts
plan activities
CSS workshop
a Karrot specific workshop (team + contributors)
Vas also collects data to enrich paper on CSS
Nathalie: positive to the idea, wants to engage with Vas’ work in one way or the other
Bruno: positive overall, nick also wanted to do sth about broadly related to tech
check with Matt and share abstract in Karrot group (if ok) [Vas] I
4. Discussion points
updates
hello to eszter, and maybe some design talk
stopped working for animorph now
in between things, some freelance work
free-er than before when trying to contribute something to Karrot
input from people where we are at with design/ux
Nathalie:
previously talked about roles, and sanctions feature, now done with nlnet work
have an open nlnet application, which includes a design/ux-related milestone
planning a gathering in gothenburg in march, so have to see how to plug in everything
we’ve been using penpot, could have something like a library in penpot? maybe looking at colours? making penpot more usable for future design work? some vision there?
also did some accessibility work in the previous nlnet round, maybe more there
Nick:
freshening up of the look, but that’s not the core
quite a few bigger UX issues, e.g. menu on the side, it’s getting bigger, show less/show more
how to navigate
map on top might got
lots of low hanging fruit
different ways how people use karrot, e.g. sign-up for acitvity, or use more advanced features
we had the idea of a progressive interface, individual or on group level
find something small to start with
added new icons
Jay:
agree with everything said, cramped sidebar, where to put new features
notification icons at the top confused me, the bell vs the conversation notification
wall conversations vs direct messages
in foodsharing luxembourg, bending usage of features, info “places” within multiple groups
maybe able to use fs lux, or others, as use cases and see how people use it and maybe get lost, seeing what users are doing with the features
encouraging groups to use features, not using pads, video calls, using lots of google services instead - so maybe “marketing” to get groups to use them
have we looked at other community building platforms? and what sets us apart? would be great to be able to say what our app brings to the table, why not use whatsapp, or google services?
putting focus on what are we doing differently to other platforms
Bruno:
a lot has been said, and agree
can make both big things and smaller things out of this ux question, both useful. low hanging fruits and whole redesigns… longer term
people naturally fall back to instant messaging platforms, but karrot has some core features, e.g. the activities feature, a tool for local organising, how to put people together
a group using all the features can use them very well, but not always very well organised together (e.g. pads aren’t really integrated into the rest of the tool, secret URL only!)
power user people, organisers, maybe having in mind a distinction, and having them help people use it, more customizable?
long term redesign of communications, shouldn’t copy instant messaging apps, as that’s not what it is, but good enough to easily communicate
a lot of groups fallback to telegram/signal/whatsapp groups to work more actively
Vasilis:
not sure if there is much to add
Eszter
very interesting
fairly consistent story of people using other messaging apps
new features being useful but not quite integrated into flow
distinctions between different levels of users and their priorities, currently not making distinction there
similarities to project management software, overwhelming at first, customizing to show just what you need
observing an active group could be a good place to start, otherwise could be huge!
intrinsic motivation, for both altruistic and selfish reasons, having a good piece of work on a live platform with live users to use as a work case study
start looking at some low hanging fruits, something more contained, and maybe move to something more comprehensive, within developer capacity
digging into specific pain points might be helpful
next steps
follow own curiosity and review what was said
write down intention (get started with something contained, potentially more involved project after + motivation) [Eszter]
get access to foodsaving group for research purpose (contact @Daniel Waxweiler, Bruno will ask in his group)
feels like time to be deciding on main weekend events to make it more open/inviting other people/public
one idea a community tech gathering, could contact digidemlabs people, could set up something… alternatives to big tech? other groups can show what they’re using/developing, digidemlabs works a lot with participatory budgeting (e.g. decidim), “freepost” running their own things
maybe broadly present and discuss?
arranging something for karrot-only / possible contributors
foodsharing or sociocracy also an option?
Nathalie:
setting a day would be good, including vas’s availability
one more public, one more internal? depends on how much organising bruno wants to do
was at a conference with a panel/fishbowl, a few people talking, and a bigger group listening, representatives from different things, and moderator/questions/introductions, sometimes too official, but can be a nice way to hold a conversation esp. if the room is organised nicely, community tech focused, or foodsharing
not sure how the other things fit in, e.g. intro to sociocracy, could also be a karrot pitch/introduction, opportunity to promote karrot
hanging out! cooking, loose schedule is nice
Nick:
remember we’re not organising a conference, it’s nice but a serious endeavour
doing something smaller
nice if it comes together, ok too if it doesn’t
then more like a meeting between peers
show each other what we are doing and just connect
two paths/things
alternative to big tech
connection to foodsaving and local groups using Karrot
Jay:
didn’t think specifically into the details, some time with wider projects/things, prefer staying cosy with people I know, less fan of huge conference/panel
having some time to think about more academic theoretical side of things, and some of the research around it, at last hackathon was very interested in it, as daily life doesn’t allow that time
social time, where those topics may or may not come up
Vas:
urgent issue from my side,
asked uni not to delete email, but deleted it and gave another fellowship/email
said leaving on 20th, at scheduled me for a lab talk on that day
can be there on 21st (saturday) by early afternoon, maybe can move our weekend from sat/sun to sun/mon?
space/amenities? room/projector? video call with matt? can we invite people?
a 2h slot to work on CSS all together?
Bruno:
have place for whole weekend, where food distribution is usually done, and community kitchen
leaning towards having more public events there for the weekend, even if we wanted, cannot make a huge event of it
would like something more focused on local groups, karrot groups - meet the karrot people, could be something informal like cooking together
good to start planning around this already
connecting with other tech collectives, etc… the other idea for this weekend
maybe saturday to do some cooking together, mini community kitchen?
more academic part? 3rd idea? more like research-inspired part? had recent webinar about “value creation within grassroots initiatives”
Nathalie:
maybe can work in a small group to come up with a schedule/proposal….
proposal:
saturday afternoon/evening cooking and more foodsharing event, connect with different (karrot) groups, no sessions scheduled
sunday, more tech day, inviting digidemlabs? permaculture people? meet and organise
yes to CSS workshop, not sure how much prep needed? on monday?
(as a preliminary basis to work with and build on)
consented! nick, nathalie, jay, bruno, vas
bruno would still like to consider more academic focus?
extra meetings
digidem labs / community tech
from posts on karrot group
vases phd/permapeople/etc…
logistics/practical/money
Nathalie:
train booking, arrival is clear, looking at departure on wednesday, need to leave in the morning, what about thursday?
update where other people are at? for those travelling south, might have the same route out?
where are people at?
nick: arriving 18th, departing 25th
jay: could arrive wednesday (18th), depart on 25th seems good, up for co-ordinate to hamburg together, train trips look very long! might consider night train, minimum price ~175EUR return
vas: arriving saturday (21st) afternoon, 2pm at the airport, happy to stay until 25th, not sure where going next
Next:
strategy
next
continue assignments and commitments
still the question: how do we measure and assess progress?
check with Matt and share abstract in Karrot group (if ok) [Vas] II (done)
sent email on Feb 19th
just also forward to jay/butze (done)
write down intention (get started with something contained, potentially more involved project after + motivation) [Eszter] (done)
get access to foodsaving group for research purpose (contact @Daniel Waxweiler, Bruno will ask in his group) [Eszter, Bruno] - Solikyl id 10, Folkkök id 633
4. Discussion points
updates
GTB workshop invite - Birgit/Sebastian
permasoftware, something about CSA and tech
early may
invited to do something around Community Supported Software
shared an abstract about the workshop
maybe bruno can get involved? vas wouldn’t go to gtb for 1 day workshop
Julliete (permaculture)
send some messages inviting to chat with Karrot people, wait for them to engage (or not!)
Foodsharing Sweden - foodsharing.se
Foodsharing group in Sweden using spreadsheets
Talked with the person doing the managing shifts work , lets see if we can collaborate, invited them to join Solikyl, we are continuing with UI/UX work, did some work on figma
Preferred name as display name → more friendly for transgender users (Jay)
legal name visible at the bottom of profile page
and possibly in the future only visible to holder of role “responsible of legal structure”
frustrating feature of Karrot that users have to identify with their legal name (that’s specific for FLuxemburg)
brought this up during GTB days, Karrot can probs do sth about that as a tool
proposal was to have a different place for legal names
what do ppl thing about it? and how we can move on?
Nick: Makes sense, keep the chose name (visible), add an aditional (legal name), Karrot account is for the whole instance, different chosen names for different groups, only visible to editors in group, one extra click to reveal someones email and user gets notified that this took place, name and identity field, consider pronoun selection as well, tend towards a free text field, move it into a commitment bit would be very nice.
Vas: fully agree, first case study was ride sharing group using facebook where people could self-identify, better than ride sharing platforms that mandate only identity is state-supported, sounds like low hanging fruit, shows some care towards users from outsider
Br: main thing can be bringing this up within Lux FS, but bringing this up could give more options to self-identify, downside could be more complexity for karrot users to sign up, a text fill for pronouns would be better probs with suggested options
Nathalie: karrot doesnt force a legal name, how to make it clear. If we introduce a field for the legal name, might give the feeling that users have to use more than one names, considering that some groups dont care. How do we go about it?
Es: what do ppl feel comf with? legal name does increase the physcological barrier, potentially group specific if this is a feature they use.
Jay: why adding a feature?
can be a new field? optional fist last name, can be extra step that ppl can do not sth mandatory
Nathalie and clarificaitons from Jay:
legal name is a group requirement
display name is ideal
Bruno:
totally understand Jay, be treated as sth for the group, the culture of the group, if there is a need that they might argue for legal name, easy suggestion to put it on your profile, find a way for the group to collect the ‘formal’ info. If they are tight about it, they might be bothered to a hack that Karrot introduced, so it can be useless, how or who to bring that up? both approaches are useful from the Karrot side and groups’ side.
Nick:
adding sth in for the group that havent asked it and might not use it so they could mandate that the legal name, our scope is to decide whether we put the energy, the most minimal version of it, making it the best, do it as a proper feature
Jay: when groups hostedd on Karrot have a legal entity they might ask for legal names
Nathalie: legal name, self-identify, its a queer topic and I want Karrot to be a queer software, generally support this idea
Eszter: adding more noise is not ideal, Nicks’ point of seperate vs full name, make the platform more modular, striving to accomodate inclusivity
Testing Karrot on collective housing Gbg
met another person staying at the house, Ivy mentioned that they are about to digitilalize the housing collective
discussed what they are using, com through emais, have different working groups, apt building 100 ppl more or less, not a small group, some using messenger, have some the need to work more privately, need general communication, investigating sth like a forum, karrot could work there? Thought of the activities, the main use cases are communication, we just put up a a test group, their minds were more to self-host, create several groups even on the main instance. Nothing clear there, just reflections. Next step is to have another follow up meeting. (we treated up as an update?, running out of time)
AI position
Nick: burn it all
Vas: positive
Bruno: sth to think about
Nathalie: I dont know
Jay: no genAI
Eszter:
Schedule a call for:
Design / Task for eszter
survey/questionarrire
connecting with some specific people in some groups
Next:
stickers! to share what’s going on, instead of linkedin [vas]
strategy
next
continue assignments and commitments
still the question: how do we measure and assess progress?
get access to foodsaving group for research purpose (contact @Daniel Waxweiler, Bruno will ask in his group) [Eszter, Bruno] I
play with some designs/mockups/ideas on supporting users self-identification [Jay]
schedule to a follow up meeting with Eszter (survey/questionnaire, connecting with some specific people in some groups) [Nick]
start on karrot AI position [Nick]
done, started
4. Discussion points
updates
Radically Sustainable Computing Workshop (GTB), early May [vas]
had a chat with Sebastian, who put this workshop up
2-days event
community supported software as one idea, that’s how Vas/we come in
interest to be there? presenter/ participant
Vas and Bruno be there in person?
pitch sounds interesting
Nathalie: sounds nice but missing the wider context, have a sense of what these ppl do [Vas], dont know what’s the ask for the team, thought of the CSS before, do we pick it up for the strategy? Go for it is the general sense, if there is a clearer ask I can look at it
Nick: sounds a nice thing to go to, if it was sth local in bath, I would attend with a sort of my holiday mind on. Being sth online, atm mostly interesting in direct things, less conceptual
pad includes lots of links, other project have similar discussions
copyright issues interesting case
AI to develop software, but there are other contexts too (graphic, writing, grant proposals,…)
stickers! to share what’s going on, instead of linkedin [vas]
curious about idea!
what’s going on? learn by posters on the street. use the local area
nlnet connection to help with hexagon design
worth trying and when?
Nathalie: not much to say, put it down as a bubbling idea, I can share what I did for the NLNET, nice sweet project that no-one is working it but we could
Nick: hexagon stickers can be different to Karrot stickers ‘showing what is going on’, local stickers could be group specific, generate a sticker from the Karrot software , not sure where we would go with that
Vas: difference between nlnet stickers/ what’s going on stickers, printable thing we can share with karrot users or ‘ambassadors’, has a link and qr code, multi-lingual spaces, have it in different languages, how do you approach people as a question e.g. potential groups that could start using karrot. Who would engage with a sticker and in which ways? Or do we want a more intentional approach via direct connections.
Nathalie: two topics emerging: stickers with the karrot logo (and it needs some operational work to make that happen) and the why, intention, what would we need the stickers for?
strategy
next
continue assignments and commitments
still the question: how do we measure and assess progress?
Nick: one task has question mark, collective diary setup?
task changed, consent!
Vas: consent
Nathalie: object to ‘Collective housing (Stacken) in Gbg as case study for Karrot’, wanting more clarity; how involved is it? what’s the outcome? who is supporting? consent to the rest
wondering if others would be interested in participating? not sure the “application process”?
usually if it’s academic you submit a position paper, but maybe can pull some strings
vas/bruno will be in gbg
are travel costs covered? partly, there is a budget from them
Groups preview page: feedback from FSS [Bruno]
there are some pages that will be completely new, while some from Karrot
group preview page: if ur on desktop one case map, when on mobile, first you see the cards and the map only if you click the arrow
a task for Karrot, asked the person doing the design to do a mockup, map on top/cards on top? more easy to switch the views
could be an improvement for the whole of karrot [Nathalie] ?
would see that being put rather in the forum as design mockup, implement that for the release [fss]
welcoming this kind of contributions, many ways to improve the landing page, the map, my groups, other groups etc.
strategy: still the question: how do we measure and assess progress? [Nathalie, Vas]
bubbling ideas and commitments, how we keep track? how we assess sth is done? how much business-oriented we can go to?
SMART: Specific Measurable Achievable Reasonable Time-bound
OKR: Objectives and Key Results
KPI (more corporate): Key Performance Indicator
not a specific methodology…we have commitments? how do we keep track of them?
measuring impact/result of commitment? numbers?
call a round!
Vas
worth exploring, generally positive, trying to “measure”
Jay
not sure I got the point, measure success?, I wouldn’t know how karrot, if funding is sth then it can be measurable, there might be things not easy/straightforward to measure
Nathalie
brought up the two acronyms, OKR used within sociocracy for all, I could tell more on how SOFA does it, woud like to see commitments being a bit more fleshed out, fleshing out could be a way forward, with NLNet clear outlocomes, more vague things, defining when am I done with sth?
How to integrate, can be a strategy circle similar to the structured money circle? How can we have sth alive, more than a document on the side.
Bruno
depends on the task, some things can be done or not done, dont think we need to do a template for that, if its more high level might not be measurable
once a month we could go back and see our existing strategies and commitments and see how much we have progressed
Nick
there is a deep philosophical question of measuring the intagible, interesting not in this context,
find sth that supports our work, what we are actually doing in a tangible way, would enjoy having more clear definitions of our tasks, e.g. AI thing is a policy, agreement…would help to be more clear. A timescale would also be helpful.
Wonder about the dialogue method assesment, you find when sth is done through discussion
Why there is resilience thus far? there is sth in Karrot that has kept the project alive.
back to originators
Nathalie:
willing to think, bring it back to a meeting after co-working with Vas
Vas:
makes sense
do a bit of research, co-working, come back with discussion point
further workshops with groups after we ve done this ground work
Vas:
question: should we do any prep work? get more prepared to the workshop
E: lay out a digital playground a couple of days before so everybody can look at it. For ex. “hopes, dreams, fears”, since it’s a big intervention. Wonders whether anyone external should come to the workshop
Nathalie:
not clear about how involved it is, 2 hours?
would appreciate the outline of the workshop
can easily occupy us for the next couple of months
difficult to grasp what is gonna happen after
Eszter:
consensus or agreement whether this is something we want to do
that is one aspect of the workshop, how critical it is and how much effort it requires
Jay:
not able to join next week
When?
Bruno: same as below
Nick: free with all the dates, tuesday or wednesday is fine
Vas: wednesdays in favor of
Nathalie: Only on the 20th I cannot do it
Jay: cannot do it next week (tuesday and wednesday)
Eszter: happy to do it next week or the week after
tuesday the 19th ? YES. we got a date (2h?)
Eszter can share some material before the workshop
nice framed, outreach campaign? moving away from NLNet hexagon stickers
I m overall positive
woudnt drive this but if there is motivation, use a little bit of karrot money, in favor of holding a sticker,
Nick:
yeah! I 3 potential audiences:
ppl softwary,
potential organisers
actual users who dont give a shit about karrot but about a local group
could imagine a feature to generate a little sticker, made a sticker generator for mastodon instances
qr codes can be useful
post them out to some ppl using Karrot
Bruno:
I like stickers, but format is kind of limited maybe? If we write something I mean…
target group is “community organizers”, people seeking alternatives to big tech tools
I like the idea of posting to people, maybe we can reach out through a banner on Karrot when it’s done
what would be a budget for that?
Jay:
dont think users only want to join if it goes through the community
it can appeal to ppl who are looking for a community tool
in favor of the idea, could help with some design
Ezter:
I love a good sticker
dunno how much karrot goes on events
organically in a city, will find a sticker to use the platform
if the goal is outreach maybe a different approach
Vasilis:
make it into a commitment
Vas taking on lead, Jay seemed to be interested in supportive role
do research on budget
like sticker generator idea
Proposal: Vas (lead), Jay (support) work on “Sticker” as a strategy commitment
consent round: Consent
DM visibility in karrot [Nick]
re: discussion on main wall
when ppl write to each other direct messages, user-to-user,
we made pms available in the case that ppl are in the same group only
sometimes ppl want to open up old convos, even if they do not longer share groups, current behavior feels like a bug
there is a few option, codeberg thread, main wall
minimun is fix the bug: cant even see they have old conversations
trying to opening up, being able to write to other users
can access anybody, this can be qute a change and lots of implicaitons regarding data,
looking for small. changes.
old converstations: can still view the convos but cannot write messages anymore
private convos should be available regarding of sharing the same group or not
per user blocking
laziest one: minimum effort, make it totally invisible.
Round:
Vas: minimum effort, make it totally invisible.
Bruno: making it possible for users to pm withought being in the same group, not in favor of hiding, making in invsible, not proposing that we take an imediate action now, can be put on the list
Nathalie: suggest not to touch the higher workings of Karrot, second what bruno said, be able to see the convos and them be locked, option of have sth such as see old msges, what happens when you delete? can choose to delete ur private messages. There should be more thinking on what could the user delete? Instance communication? Intergroup communication? Sounds interesting.
Jay: really undestand the point of not having ppl to have private conversations, it can be messy, but also undestand point of Nathalie on intergroup communication
first to fix the bug and then work on the history of messages
Eszter: option sounds to be able to see old msgs, but not being able to reach out to others from other groups looks expected, in what scenarios are pms relevant? need to explore that
Nick:
lots of intercepting topics: be able to see convos but not being able to write, when can they delete their account their private msgs might be a seperate category, would move to a direction where msgs appear as deleted, they dont just dissapear
Jay: fix the bug is that you dont see the convo at all & add to list of features that can lock a conversation
getting better at writing proposals, would like to continue that within karrot
invest time to prepare with student (talk before, read paper)
Nick
self-motivation of students varies
resistance to bring in students, onboarding takes a lot of effort
would like to bring this to a policy level
Next Steps
continue in async discussion in karrot group
Foodsharing Sweden [Bruno]
Invoice payments on their way
transfers today
Style on own instance
plugin for changing default colors, fonts, background etc.?
on CSS/SASS variables?
invite our designer to Eszter’s design workshop?
overlap between design of fss website and karrot
redesign components of karrot
How easy are the changes doable?
you can change color variables, Nick can document that
general CSS files should get included, might need to check importance
idea is that you should be able to fully modify everything
Invite to design workshop next week?
makes sense [Vas]
chat with Eszter about it
make sense but how much do they want to contribute long-term [Nathalie]
wouldn’t necessarily slow us down
similar conversation in SoFA on onboarding and training people, team members invest time and then volunteers go away, can be draining on the organisation
step back a bit when coming in, observer position
congratulation on your work in Sweden [Philip]
Proposal
Bruno write to Eszter about the workshop and leave the decision to her
how do we measure and assess progress? [Nathalie, Vas] update
iImensions
philosophical question on how to measure what we do in karrot
having more defined commitments
how to integrate strategy into our routines
Proposal forming
answer these guiding questions after taking on commitment
What is the timeline for this?
When do we consider the task done?
Did we get enough feedback on this topic?
To which Strategic Aims your task is attached?
Is there a measure you could keep track of? How do you evaluate that this task contributed to the Strategic Aims?
introduce 2 subcategories for the updates agenda point: ‘misc’ and ‘time for strategy’
have another focused strategy session to review excalidraw board and see whether more ideas bubble up, explore idea of a regular ‘strategy circle’
hack the agreements feature and add our commitments as agreements
Quick reactions
Philip:
my latest research (https://doi.org/10.1145/3772318.3791722) about measuring commitment statistics, a feature on in foodsharing, it brought controversial discussion about surveillance and so forth
I find it interesting that it is very contextual though. Karrot is another context than foodsharing, esp. scale, boding of the group, groups have to be careful with measuring, but I think for Karrot it will be helpful to do that
Bruno:
how we proceed to integrate it into our routines
nice with the guiding questions and have them specific to each commitment itself
help me to be more focused in my limited time for karrot
Vas
intention is not about competing in success, but knowing what works and what does’’t work so well in our work
use measure as feedback to improve
reflecting on how we use action and outcomes and the numbers we add
interesting to use our agreement feature
Nathalie
happy to bring it back next time for a clear decision
not quite sure of using the agreements features, not 100% convinced, but also not much to lose
can see how using MCP server with penpot can be very helpful
e.g. building out components for the project, donkey work… laying bricks (could create components for the project based on the website
can better use human time to actually work on it
can see how AI has many problematic aspects, world domination power, etc…
many more limited features could have been implemented without AI anyway, so more nuance there
saving labour that isn’t going to be creative/interesting, boilerplate
don’t feel fully aligned with the draft, very strong position to say “no”
Nathalie:
different threads of conversation, but not necessarily AI
could work with this policy, could try it for some time, e.g. 2 months, and see if something is constantly pushing against it, and evolve it over time
like pointing out of the key reasons to give a sense of where it comes from
some more minor points, e.g. what is “limited use” meaning? is that an edge case
stumble over the “enshittify” word, feels unintuitive, and don’t like it, feels difficult, maybe difficult to understand if you’re not into the topic
other threads are with the larger collaboration, e.g. what eszter shared, and general tools we use… understanding how we already use open source, e.g. maybe nick is more strict with tools/libraries
touches on large capitalist tools topic, e.g. figma or penpot, not only the product we make but the tools we use ourselves, could broaden the scope
interesting situation with eszter, would is deciding these policies and how does it affect the collaboration
Bruno:
many thoughts!
interesting to hear last point about FOSS/values, etc… we have built culture of trying to work with FOSS as much as possible, but also am quite pragmatic, but don’t try and take a very purist approach, e.g. for working tools
basic dilemma of life, trying to act ethically in a world that is always pushing you to try and act in another way. cannot completely avoid it
on a project basis can still say something is very important for a project and not to do it
AI fits within these broader reflections
would like karrot to be AI-aware, how we use it, or not, nice discussion to have
being pragmatic approach, if certain kinds of collaboration that would be really good for the project might use AI in a certain way, and cases that we can accept
nice to hear eszter as it’s a good example for us, and can think of many examples of that, AI-informed content… and some that would be easy to reject
no particular proposal/opinion, just reflections for now
even as a hard proposal, could work with it until we stumble upon a situation, I welcome having a policy though, otherwise we accept the status quo and are not actively thinking, so would be runover by it
Philip:
reminded about the discussions about prefiguration, that you want to act in the hear and now the ideas you wish for a future
so in tech, if you are a project that wants to use future tech, might stop people using whatsapp, over matrix…
… but think this is a very short view, e.g. to embrace whatsapp, you can express values of a desired future
important to support the transformative ambitions in the long run, rather than either/or
if we took it seriously would take a lot of evaluation
with AI people get surprised each month with what is happening
people thinking something won’t happen will happen soon
something that really defines our times, and have lasting impact for 100/120 years…
something valuable to look into
I’m getting into more philosophy around AI, e.g. Markus Gabriel? Gaoiubadilouabsnfdlkjasbndfkljasf (sp??)
to develop ethical AI
AI as a mirror of ourselves
if we don’t develop ethical AI, it’ll mirror the worst of ourselves
on a very practical approach, I am working with AI
writing proposals with AI, saves me 10x the time I would need, giving a lot better outcome
wouldn’t do it without AI now, would rather not write the proposal
Nick:
wide range of perspectives, without including Vas or Jay
enormous topic, finding something that moves us forward
takeaway: try to get some nuance
like to hear from Vas and Jay
external contributors vs. core’
too much to dictate what Eszter for example do
comparison with open-source is good, leaning a lot into it in Karrot work
opinion on AI is even stronger, fascist leaning technology, catastrophic for humanity
convenience obfuscates power structures
day-to-day life becomes tied into that
strong scenario to regain the skills and get into the earthy part of life
example of the act of taking minutes, also contributes to understanding
be productive for whom, and why? a deep topic
next steps:
get perspective from vasilis and jay (async? next meeting?)
incorporate perspectives into a reformed proposal that can bring to a formal proposal!
students/ interns in karrot? [butze]
away it’s a sensitive context, and we can’t just throw students into karrot
what stuck in my head is what nick said, he is caring person, and when the people arrive he feels he has to care… and will inevitable happen… and takes time
have to really assess the students beforehand if they are suitable, which is quite hard, and involves a lot of biases
what is possible, hearing from vas and nathalie, for some topics they are ready to talk to the students
this year I was surprised that we had a lot of students doing lots of cool projects, in real world things (gardening, neighbourhood cooking thing). those interested to do a project are with foodsharing, with anton, who takes some time to onboard them, observe how productive that is when they come into the foodsharing realm and how much effort it is for him
Q: in which way do they work with foodsharing?
A: some locally with foodsharing, and reporting to anton, and one woman is a developer getting into the developer circle, and a UX designer looking at the resource mosaic, how to integrate into onboarding process
will let you know how it works out!
quick round:
Bruno:
it sounds like a potential we don’t want to waste, but being mindful about time constraints as a group
maybe not accept people direct into our meetings, but do onboarding on the side if they have the time who would like to do it
Nathalie:
appreciated what Philip said about the assessment of students beforehand is hard
difficult if we raise the entry barrier, not sure that’s a good way to go
what resonated from Nicks comment from thread is longtermness, if we onboard them there is an idea they might stick around, or we could lower our expectations, e.g. 6 months max, and honesty about what they can do in the timescale, some tasks are easy?
so maybe our expectations are too high, hard to do a meaningful contribution in the timeframe without a lot of energy, which is not sustainable to give
so two ways, lower expectionation, or maybe if there is one direct person to work with, but maybe we don’t have that opening, case by case
onboarding is a really interesting topic… different levels of it, onboarding as a team member is the most intense onboarding, but don’t have other kinds of it, easier onboarding
Nick:
feel so negative, both with AI and students
like the idea of a sponsor person, or host in the project, could be someone in the team member
if no one bites it, no onboarding
it saves group resources
from years of experience of working wih ppl with high motivation but not enough experience
Eszter:
don’t have an opinion on it, can see the logic of the different comments
working on a questionnaire now, on a pad, will post that in the design process place
will try and upload the figjam file as a zip file
will writeup what I need from grafana stats
wrote up what the design process could look like
currently don’t have full internal alignment/buy-in, and seems quite important, and to resolve
team buy-in, decide who would be part of the process, autonomous/anarchical working (can do it kind of alone, and contact people), need some agreement though (but can be slow, do we have meeting for every single thing, or one person who is point of contact? and certain things come to bigger meetings?)
also understand point of karrot is not to be specific, but also nice to have a momentum! and get stuck in! and see how trust is built between us
deciding on tooling (and touches on AI and open source software), and how much is that dictated, current position is not using AI for creative things, pragmatically existing in capitalist world many things are extractive, using machine to do things that are not particular interesting is nice, to avoid spending days doing it
write a brief, agree it - using what emerged from the workshop
agree on some metrics (more needed by eszter) to assess the outcome is positive
would be nice to have a few people from the community
creating a sitemap, not sure what is connected to what right now, and how people flow through it
ideally editable blocks in penpot so we can play with them
and wireframing for new parts
another aspect around visual tweaks, currently a lot of difference in styles, inconsistent UI, connected to navigation, touches on lots of themes
do we slightly change the style, or just make it consistent? creating a design system, which can be used in the future (can be something AI can help with, tokenising)
prototypes and development after that, might go around in a few circles, and being tested/measured
getting agreement/alignment is a good first step, and not sure on the right process to come to that, perhaps sociocratic approach there
round:
Nick:
almost a bit overwhelmed with all the things
sounds great, but wonders if we have the resources to get the scale right
doing the whole things is potentially huge amount of stuff
make sure we can get the scope to fit the resources
excited about having a proper process, learning from Eszter
thinking about how we’ve done before (Nlnet) - someone takes a lead and other sign up to be supportive
person taking a lead has quite some autonomy, trusting they incorporate what’s needed
not have done consent on particular bits, not sure
avoid micro questions
two people being supportive would be good
cultural thing is interesting, “buy-in” more in a commercial context
Nathalie:
appreciating a lot of the thoughts, and gives a hint of design experience
was really interesting and useful having some external come in and do the workshop
can see a whole design world!
can see how we matched, karrot having a design need and personal connection
also feel a bit overwhelmed too, maybe boils down to aspect of the collaboration, e.g. not being a team member.
had idea to write goals/aims on profile, which is “joining karrot"! do you want to join? how long do we want to stick around? how much onboarding is useful (e.g. nlnet/money processes)
if seeing it as an external collaborator situation, maybe to have a meeting of just team people to see
can hugely benefit from your work
the overwhelming thing, don’t know about the sitemap, and wireframes, we’re not a classic software project, and most people not familiar with many of the concepts
how much is a delivery of something, or part of a process
assessing how much might be related to the nlnet work
feel a bit torn, I hope it doesn’t feel like a closing of anything, because very nice potentials, can be very beneficial
Bruno:
thank you!
agree a lot on the question about scope, try to be aware of that, quite a big scope for karrot, totally worth it and it should be
could be months? how much time does eszter have and how much time from others to support it?
scope of changes could be quite big, having a process to accommodate the resources we have a team, and as individuals
can have a nice way of working more autonomous, with leading, and supportive roles
second what Nathalie said about terms of collaboration, how much you want to get involved in Karrot
can definitely see how it fits nlnet, so that’s also a question, including deliverable to nlnet
and opening question of payment is legit, if you want to participate in that
whether to be involved in nlnet parts, need to do that co-ordination
could have a recap of how we’ve done our design processes before? to get a sense of how slow things might move … or quick at certain points, when deadlines are approaching
topics
agreement (“buy in”)
which kind of design intervention
scope / size
terms of collaboration
how to co-ordinate with other topics, e.g. nlnet
design process itself and decision process
autonomously vs group decision, smaller groups
eszter
makes sense not as part of team
and not wider involved in foodsharing activities
money is not the point for me, although being paid is nice
objective is it’s a live site, and doing a good job, that helps it!
process is important for me, can go away and do things alone, but then there is not a feedback from everyone else about what would work best
for applications, if invited to do so by 21st of June.
Join one of our webinar drop-in sessions happening on Wednesday 20 May 2026, 12:30 CET and Wednesday 27 May 2026, 16:30 CET to learn more about how to apply for the Digital Justice Fund.
(if time) livekit minutes… [Nick]
Next:
review eszter/karrot pad [Nick]
engage with the topic of measuring/assessing commitments [Nathalie]
doesn’t commit to anything very specific, which is ok
can agree with all the points mentioned
would need to agree the scope/appetite for what will actually happen, which goes beyond this
thanks for writing it!
Philip
I lack some context, didn’t understand which design intervention or proposal
A: Eszter is a UX person and offered to help
a range of things could be done, some consensus around navigation
questions are around what gets done, how long does it take, and the boundaries of the work
otherwise sounds good!
Nathalie
sounds good, points to where we’re at now
on description of design processes, included a link to a specific link on how we have done the design process
on terms of collaboration, touched on the “karrot team”, liked the mutual benefit part, wonder if we should make it a bit more defined in terms of time, to put a time on the whole thing?
Nick
how to work with the nlnet funding, parts can start beforehand
other comments
time: time is constrained, start with a time-boxed thing and evaluate
availability also depends on money, look for funding
testing ground:
money does signalise it’s been cared about
maybe timebox to 2-3 weeks of work
Eszter will make some more detailed proposal around collaborative working and time
Philip:
all fine, sounds all fair enough
Nathalie:
sounds good, good conversation we’re having
proposal itself is a bit open (e.g. specifics of intervention, and nlnet parts)
on time aspect, wondering how to align the difference pace, e.g. if there is a lot of concentrated work vs the slow karrot pace, like a few hours a week, want to avoid a potential tension of focused work, and whether there is karrot people available for engaging
Nick:
sound forward direction
write into pad directly
potential for future funding
keen to get whatever minimal agreement is needed to get into working phase
interesting how to do the organising
Eszter:
no longer have loads of time, will be doing more specific work with set days
won’t be doing 3 week block of work, as have to fit it around that work
keen to move it forward, and get some work done that we agree, and go from there
next step
Eszter will amend pad with time aspects [Eszter]
FONA funding [R, philip]
started proposal, with junior research groups
part of process of getting uni professorship
potentially some funding for karrot within that
socioecological junior research group
key enabling technologies
AI
broader sociological question
“who gets to shape the technological future of regional food systems”
IPSE council report, sustainable food systems (Head in the Couds) → power of BIG TECH onto agriculture
big tech goes into big agriculture companies, will detirmine our agricultural future
major literature saying we shouldn’t ignore grassroots, CSA, etc…
idea to bring it all on one table, big tech and alternative sector, to bridge the alternative imaginaries of futures
build an AI-support scenario infrastructure
an AI-commons of different data, where these actors can be supported in negotiating the future of resilient and sustainable food systems
under which democratic …
research question:
Under which democratic governance conditions can actors with competing agricultural innovation imaginaries jointly shape AI-supported scenario infrastructures for sustainable and resilient Stadt-Umland food systems?
big challenge will be getting big agriculture players to join
could be possible to weave karrot into it
questions
Nathalie:
do you have an idea of how weaving karrot into the proposal could look?
A: not 100%, could be 1 stakeholder for imaginaries for sustainable futures, especially about which role technology plays in it
tricky part, is funding for research, not practical things
will continue to work on it over 4 months, and think about how to integrate it
karrot of course needs some benefit, not just giving ideas without some return
what does it mean to be a stakeholder?
Nick:
critical perspective on AI
thinking of prefiguration, what would be interesting is to encode what karrot is
what karrot does, good sense what future could be like
could that be a potential way?
Philip:
have to see if it’s possible for money to go to external parties
with big tech, and their money much easier to get bigger voice at the table
Nathalie:
we’re moving into more general organising, although not unfitting
general sense is it’s mostly philips research project and opportunity to get professorship, and karrot part is way smaller potential, and quite unclear
Next:
Digital Justice funding
engage with the topic of measuring/assessing commitments [Vas/ Nathalie]
Just wrote a big msg on karrot, archived all places, ppl are finding their way to the instance, no complains so far, seems to flow, instnace is working well!
next week working on the landing page!
new plugins
developed two plugins (FS Lux), badge ID generator using the Karrot API, now a Karrot plug-in
1st back-end plugin
workflow question/evaluation: forum or codeberg? [Bruno]
some things end up on codeberg, whereas we try to keep it out and keep the more technical issues on codeberg, thinking of that,
haven’t done more tidying up
feedback and other things pilling up, still having the board, and the strategy pad…
where do things belong?
Round:
Nat: open topic of measuring accessing commitments, but lets keep it a seperate agenda item, forum is more accessible compared to codeberg, bruno official/unofficial manager of the board? I rely on you looking at it.
Nick: agree nice to have a proper flow that we can follow, so we have a bit more orientation, where we are, feels more ad-hoc now, hunting around for tasks, forum is more accesible. forum has 2 big issues for me, still requires an extra-sign up, while the board feels a bit clunky, dreamy hat on! no extra accounts to submit, integrate it into karrot, wonder whether if there is another tool, there is ‘fider’ where ppl can vote on and could be intergrated?
Vas
mapping out the flow, get the point of the forum vs codeberg (feels intimidating)
with strategy pad, board, codeberg… would propose mapping out the flow of how things are happening, and have a proposal, e.g. don’t need board anymore for some reasons… maybe a co-working task?
Butze
reminded me of the product team in foodsharing.de, if u ask A, 50% is discussing things, need of intermediares having communication skills or mocukup development skills
Bruno
not after a perfectly working system, another workflow, much better, to be focused on the part of what should be developed/prioritised, maybe we can incorporate that in every meeting, every other meeting. Support with ‘hunting’, keeping track of the board and tyding up, could help prioritise things
need of curation, care for it. Is curator a new role?? Can take some of that responsibility myself for the board
Karrot can move more clearly towards roles ppl can do (curator’s role?), borrow from the sociocracy descriptions to define these thngs, and organise the ‘what should i do’ feeling
product role, curator is a good first thing to define
nathalie: direct next step, prioritise, bruno could take over that? bring to meeting, 30min on operational work
vas: a matter of organising information, e.g. the way we keep the meeting minutes, we are accustomed to it, and it’s well organised… so maybe for the curation doing a bit of mapping of all the things we have, e.g. how notes are kept and to the forum, the actions and outcomes, putting numbers… is already care/curation work, so could be applied in the context of priorities… in my case a few things lingering around, a funding application, or stickers… then when someone is around for a while… bubbles and options, opens question “what am I doing now?”, and rest of group also doesn’t know what I’m doing
bruno: bring a more operational point in the next meeting, suggestions on what could be prioritised, look together and decided together, take into account the input from the community
Resource-Mosaic presentation on 16.06. ? [Philip]
Anton if we can do it tomorrow, makes sense to present? 20 - 30 mins, discussion, next meeting if that’s ok
Digital Justice Fund [Nathalie/Vas]
kind of proposal: We submit an application for 10 000 EUR. All continue on karrot thread on digital justice, Vas and Nathalie put together proposal until next Tuesday for review.
Groups can apply for grants between EUR 10,000 and EUR 50,000, to be used over a period of up to two years. We know funding politics and practices have led to groups (particularly grassroots and Black and People of Colour-led) under-requesting funding, so we encourage you to think expansively about your resourcing needs when applying.
Q: create digital infrastructure, does it need to be a new thing? A: don’t have to ideate a new project, continue on what you’re working in, needs to have to do we Digital Justice Organising
budget ideas?
YES/NO ?
Bruno: Sounds like YES, budget ideas? try to network, work with another group, use case type of group (new case study then), reserve half of the budget for regular work, and then pick up a group, try out karrot in community organising
Nick: opt for wider discussion on what digital justice is, is that missing from us? we are doing care but we embed that in our documents, seems like with self-hosting, plugins
We define digital justice organising as work that builds collective power towards equitable access to resources for all and creates the conditions for the planet and all beings to thrive — including by enabling historically and structurally excluded communities to self‑determine the purpose, design, production, deployment and governance of digital technologies.
Butze: what do they fund? its new! first time! practical/undestanding. would like to help, have sth to do with the resource mosaic, critique of what is wrong but not how we can tackle that, abundance oriented justice design could be towards that direction, enabling thing
Nat: I do think karrot fits in there, political aspects of how we do talk about power missing in karrot, still in favor of applying, fine with using money for existing work we are doing, accesibility work? queering Karrot? We as a team are more closer to?
Vas: thinking how we could build a story for proposal, karrot self organised communities… definately don’t have hard data, but think people using it for foodsaving aren’t such the marginalized people per se? that’s what I’ve seen with foodsaving activities in uk/de… more alternative, new-wave, young white people doing pickups… maybe wider range in distributions. so wouldn’t use it so much for the story… but the queering thing, or pairing up with some communities, or expressing intention, e.g. new case study… communities being digitally homeless/marginalized… e.g. queer communities going on the darkweb as everything is going to be tracked, skeptical of mainstream web. connects with self-hosting, having your own instance. potential for having new case. karrot community organising for queer communities, etc… how do we do that? in terms of the software/instances… generally positive… probably have to come up with something for marginalized communities, not just foodsaving groups… worth trying it out, maybe no need to actually pair, maybe “queering karrot” would be enough
Bruno: definately not just a white middle class thing in gothenburg, and backed by research
Nathalie: given timeframe would like to take decision on whether to work on the application
Proposal: apply to funding, vas & nathalie co-leading
it’s a yes!
Next:
resource mosaic presentation from foodsharing @Philip Engelbutzeder + Anton (30 mins)
engage with the topic of measuring/assessing commitments [Vas/ Nathalie]
what is this about? feature request? done in public description
start Digital Justice Fund application draft [Nathalie, Vas]
ongoing
4. Discussion points
updates
fs Luxembourg not using postal server any longer [Nick]
remove agreement
luxembourg plugins [Nick]
couple of plugins, got the info: background tasks that run to ensure everybody has certain places as favorites, makes sure everyone has them favored, everyone must be in the general group, make sure all store-cooperations are set 2 weeks in advance
server administrator installs plug-in
resource mosaic presentation from foodsharing @Philip Engelbutzeder + Anton (30 mins)
upload presentation
additional notes:
10 years ago, start of yunity: imagine sharing everything, expand to sharing and saving any resource possible, multi-saving and sharing platform, this led to the development of karrot
Anton and Philip went on the ‘Sharing FoodTour’, road trip, Anton working with university Siegen too now, tour idea: listen, understand, connect, share and do! resource mosaic is one of the results
on the surface it’s about sharing food, underneath people already share a lot more e.g. use (private) car to do pick-up or distribution, freezer to store surplus food, people are sharing their infrastructure! not only material things, share access to political structure, knowledge, care. resources not very visible
resources are not scarce, more that people don’t know what’s availble
resource = anything that can be of use to community, material, skills, contacts etc
make resources visible to community, 3 aspects
personal workshop: people get together and talk, creating atmosphere where people are encouraged and invited, say what you’d like to do
digital function: collective repository
analog platform: physical boards etc, what’s digital get into analog
storytelling around it: broaden the story, current project is making two videos, story of broken bike and finding help though resource mosaic etc from individual help to shared project to community life
digital layer: it’s a feature on foodsharing.de! Every user can create resources, title, description, categories, setting: visibility, filter and browse resources, have it a bit messy, random display, favorite and contact users
local resource group: working group that manages and support entries, they get notification for each new resource added
every resource entry is voluntary, reminder that entries are non-binding in form of a pop-up when messaging
meaning of analog workshop, example of Dortmund visit, Anton and Philip joined newcomer’s meeting, fun approach, break up meeting that is only about presenting rules, ‘design an utopian event’, many people struggle to write down resources, helpful questions are: what do you like to do? what do you do in your free time? what would you like to contribute? understanding themselves as helpful parts of the community
‘restrictive fairness tools’ (e.g. each members needs to do 5h/month, policy-in-code) vs ‘resource mosaic’, ‘abundance-oriented justice’
‘capacity building infrastructure’, resources are already there, transformed to act collectively
nice! makes a lot of sense to have sharing resources with custom limited visibility, it’s all about trust in sharing
made me think of the “offers” feature on Karrot, a very basic and limited attempt in the same direction that did not really succeed, good to reflect on the why (maybe lack of the other “corners” of the triangle mosaic? the analog and workshop…)
question: isn’t there a feature for demands of resources? Like the same way you put up a resource that you offer, you could put up something that you ask for
A: discussed a lot, no conclusion, good reasons to have it, might cause a shift in usage, not for the better, coming from a perspective of ‘we don’t have enough’, want to counter that narrative, might be only a small group of people adding many demands, make it community centered and collective, start from what’s there
interested on material, if you have any, on how to do this workshop (even if in German, it’s fine). I know some people/org. that might be interested in trying it out here in Gbg
put stickers of what’s available on doors, analog organising
literature: russel ??,
how to automate resources, how does the platform support the user
Anton
thoughts on automation: Philip and I discussed that, I’m not a huge fan of further automation, technically not that easy, design to be as open as possible, AI application type of thing, middle-ground: how to structure resources to make them easy to find, tried with categories and full text search
not directly connected to foodsharing or karrot, groups that know each other and have a connection, incentive to share, make the resource mosaic a stand-alone tool, like a doodle you can share a link to
where is the legal doc we signed with A4C? would be handy to find for future application
nlnet next steps
meeting on Thursday?
We will organise two online welcome meetups. Participation is obviously entirely optional, but we hope at least some of you will enjoy such an opportunity to learn about the rest of your cohort and the amazing things they will be doing. The agenda of the welcome meetup is fairly straightforward: we’ll start with a bit of context about NLnet, NGI and NGI Zero. After that we’ll have a rapid fire round of introductions for those that feel like it (1-2 minutes per human) - giving you a quick overview of who is embarking alongside you and what they will do in parallel to your project. After that we’ll explain the Memorandum of Understanding mechanism, and walk you through the various support services we will be able to provide to you together with partner organisations. Once that is done, we’re remain available to answer any questions you or your team mates might have.
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… or quick at certain points, when deadlines are approaching 
