mini version withough the chat and post on the forum
ready for NLnet
Q: has Nick started on sanctions? no.
Q: what about documentation? it’s about design here.
Q: do you plan to bring it to another meeting before sending to nlnet? would be good I guess, not specific plans. no consent on it, sending to nlnet is independent. sending minimal version to nlnet, or maybe both?
when applying to a group, the name of the members replying to the applications are replaced by a question mark, but not in the email notifications. I was able to see name and surname of the people replying to me in the email notifications I received when applying (even though my application was never accepted)
when applying to a group, the name of the members replying to the applications are replaced by a question mark, but not in the email notifications. I was able to see name and surname of the people replying to me in the email notifications I received when applying (even though my application was never accepted)
have a look at the excalidraw, run through some features
another voice would be nice
maybe another post
facilitators? except for Nathalie?
Nick: should take on sth, need more thought for that, hand out space would be nice to have some kind of structure, might benefit of a bit of structure, break out rooms? probs could work. Karrot quiz? didnt prepare it yet but could be in small groups. Use some of the Karrot places.
Vas: bit with harmonica, very amateur, not professional, planning to have a script and a storyline, where we’re at… some jamming and some text in between… like the metaphor of being around the fire, so you can underperform alcohol free or have some alcohol? would be happy to have some on the side… maybe Nathalie can decide. when designing quiz, might not be enough people to do break out rooms? so maybe prepare activities to work for both scenarios
Bruno: might try to join after meeting, but cannot make it otherwise
Sofi: first time being in an online party so don’t know what it’s going to be like, at parties people naturally gather into smaller groups, opening up my mind! regaarding alcohol, who is going to stop you
Nathalie: would probably not start with alcohol, but maybe a break before the hang out space, and invite people if they wanted to
10 people signed up!
take a look at funding work-pad from Siegen-people & address discussion pt.
Famtastisch - been chatting with @Philip Engelbutzeder about how structured an initial email should be, starting to write a draft, can think about whether the visions/values fit what we’re doing
many of the criteria seems to fit
they look at impact and method, do we have any idea about how to articulate our method, and the measurable impact
on the rest of the places
two EU funding
there is a workshop on how to write EU funding applications, Sofi will attend
Philip is enthusiastic about the Karrot district tour
Nick: measuring impact, interesting as none of the applications have put it that
Vasilis: like the measuring impact point, however skeptical about the reports
Karrot has no legal status, not a legal entity, university funding would be better
think of mathematical approaches for measuring impact, look more towards environmental impact, footprints
community-building is more crucial—good communal practice prevents wrongdoing within food-sharing practitioners
CSA is an aspect
at some pt traditional market will take care of food-waste, communities will lack excuse to exist…
Bruno: disagree that they will solve the issue, doesn’t cost them to throw it away, could be part of our argumentation for the funding application
other use cases for Karrot, general purpose, dont have many other groups, very few. food system in general as long as there is the capacity to work on that
legal entity: we can apply with our fiscal host (all for climate), fee there. that’s one possibility
measuring impacts: food waste saved can be a good measurement, human connections, community building, number of activities done
“Sharing knowledge and best practices and creating coalitions and alliances between equal and unequal parties; reinforcing infrastructures for collaboration.”
“As a foundation, we want to move away from project-based funding and towards long-term, unallocated support for our partner organisations. This requires a great deal of trust on both sides, and it takes time to get there. We admit that we have not reached our goal yet; however, we began issuing our first unallocated funding in 2024.”
“The eight call of NGI Zero Commons Fund opened up on June 1st 2025, with a deadline of August 1st 2025 12:00 CEST (noon). Check out the guide for applicants and the frequently asked questions.”
Bruno:
one approach for Famtastisch one, look at existing projects/groups and make an argument for digital sovereignty, to try and fulfil their digital needs with Karrot
2 karrot district tour - it is a project idea! who wants to do this - Nick?
3 hear more about possible project ideas
Reactions
Nick
up for karrot tour with Butze!
doing our strategy would help clarify common direct and project ideas
focused on nlnet work at the moment
how to wrap up pieces into a whole ‘project’?
interactions with karrot group but not being a member, public sign-up, - breaking boundary of groups
expanding beyond food, picking another use case and seeing how karrot can work
method of organising, e.g. sociocracy
Nathalie
maybe team up more with sociocracy for all? combining training expertise, and connecting to networks of groups, which can maybe try out karrot… and some research around that?
accessibility - deeper dive to make it more accessible? reviewing navigation/menu organising… user interface design work
“progressive interface” - how to present the right level of complexity to a user, e.g. new users don’t need to see everything. making things clearer/easier to understand, and how to manage complexity (as karrot gets more complex, how to deal with it)
commons-theme? how can we support organising common things, e.g. calendar view, physical objects (e.g. shared bikes) - but yet another feature! so complexity to manage
food district tour: could be nice to have parts more team oriented, expand beyond nick and butze, so perhaps some parts of it, e.g. particularly in warsaw could be interesting for Nathalie, or visiting Bruno.
Nick
use of messengers (whatsapp, telegram), bridge communication channel
final backend self-review, then merge! then sanity test on dev.karrot.world by someone else? [Nathalie]
develop sanctions feature - 3000 [Nick]
The Big One
big feature hardly any time, panic/stress…. what to do?
documentation for roles/permissions - 1000 [Vas]
dependent on it being done!
wait for it to be merged/deployed and Nathalie tried it out
Nathalie then up to explain to him how it works
documentation for sanctions - 1000 [Vas]
this more tricky! as it’s not clear what will emerge and when
security & accessibility - 500 [Nick, Nathalie]?
hoping to have that done later, as it’s small, and I think nlnet already suggested that would be ok!!!
maybe will not do or later?
develop permissions - 2000 [Nick]
Nathalie:
sense with nlnet is they might be flexible? e.g. security/accessibility amount is quite low, but can we shift some money there?
checking money, got 3000 done but not RFP + self-hosting docs (1000) + roles (2000), vas will likely do docs (1000). could we reallocate money?
doubt the sanctions will be a nice process given the roles process…? maybe leave out sanctions by reallocate a bit, but lose a bit, and a bit longer deadline?
Nick
permission money into roles? claim it together
sanctions most difficult one, much reduced scoped version, only knows when starting to do it
try to push deadline out and code on sanctions
unlock speed
pushed documentation for roles even later
shift money from permissions to roles and security
deadline extension?
“Yes, end of June is fine. (The EC has been so kind to reduce the time pressure on our side somewhat, so we can also be a bit more relaxed; though we still aim to finish all Entrust projects this summer.)”
5. Actions and Outcomes
reply to the sideways thing [Nick] IX
submit nlnet rfp for instance options [Nick] VII
submit invoice [Bruno, Nick] V
read bristol days forum post draft [Nick] I
try to replicate Jay’s security issue and document it [someone] I
keep working on the accessibility report topics [Nathalie] I
look at outreach email to famtastic [Nathalie]
write on wall: consult team for District Tour and bring back to meeting [Sofi]
write an email to nlnet with content from the notes above [Nick/Nathalie]
check with vas about documentation tasks [Nathalie]
when applying to a group, the name of the members replying to the applications are replaced by a question mark, but not in the email notifications. I was able to see name and surname of the people replying to me in the email notifications I received when applying (even though my application was never accepted)
“Creating urban co-creation spaces for driving sustainable food system transformation”
co-creating sustainable urban spaces for better food systems! nutritious food for vulnerable groups, being less wasteful, etc… resilience, exclusivity, health
not just eu proposals, but writing proposals that are not academic, for receiving government money with industrial interests
short term proposals to produce knowledge, but to achieve other impact/results
specific guidelines for those
went through an example (see funding pad)
difficulty including karrot in it, because karrot is not a registered legal entity, could get funding as a research team, and transfer some to karrot?
where are we in the process? do we have consent on one design?
Nick
a bit of mess without consent, because design is approved as a task
design does not cover all of implementation decisions
have to work out how to bridge the gaps
without consent, there is more uncertainty
with deadline, needs to be coding and not talking, potentially stressful
progress clarifies a lot of things
nice way of process: accept the mess and pick out things with most resistance (currently the visibility topic; maybe find a 3rd way)
take feedback during progress
welcomes inputs on visibility
Jay
understand the stress of having to focus on coding while needing to talk and consent
trusts Nick to make the right decision
even imperfect, keep deadline in mind and maybe develop more later
Nathalie
we have currently more implicit consent, need more explicit consent, especially about visibility
understands that Bruno submitted his minimal version of design to NLnet, but conversation is not over
the above is not explicitly stated, which effects implementation
did not bring back minimal design back to meeting, should do it
we can find a solution just for now, in view of deadline
meanwhile we can already talk about proposals
Sofi
deadline and making a decision
good to stay with something we can minimal agree on
karrot continues after the deadline!
Next step
check for consent in the next meeting
continue conversation outside meetings
Next time
Think about NLnet Common’s Funding project (deadline 01/08)
feedback log
@Jay reporting an issue (as a Karrot user in FS Lux): when the time of a pickup is changed, the person signed up is removed from the event and there’s a lot of conflicts coming up lately because of people taking “someone else’s” slot when a person is removed. Is there some UX work we could do to prevent this?
@Jay pointing out a feature/bug we could work on (maybe simple coding task if someone feels like addressing it?): on pads, when a text has a link (like here, for example), there is no way to actually open it, since clicking on it simply moves the editing cursor to the text. Maybe implement something like CTRL+click → opens link in new tab?
@Jay proposed karrot to a local non-profit (helping refugee integration)
current setup is a preview of the link being the same (karrot logo, generic info)
but new behavior would be that the link is previewing a specific activity or group on Karrot
AI proposal NCL university [R] [Vas]
rejected
“Bad news, they are basically looking for more technical proposals – we should be more specific next time about the types of AI technologies we will use during these participatory engagements. Lets think about potential venues for re-submission”
sanctions design
check for consent of design
finding a nice finish for the design
would be good to look at sth, latest design bruno provided, check if there is sth we do not consent
looks good to me, transparency vs privacy? could each group decide how it works?
Jay
looks nice, some negative feelings, maybe wording? feeling punitive
also have a deadline
Nick
new info the who can see this
how it will be shared is not on the mockup
the heart of the issue lies in transparency vs privacy and do not want to decide on myself on that during actual dev
Vas
a bit confusing, but maybe wasn’t fully focused
how did someone get to be a mediator? how do they know they need a mediator? or there is an issue needing mediator? how does the mediator role work?
Nathalie
noticing not explicit how to get mediator role, not sure if mockup assumes self-assignment mediator role
Sofi
no urgent questions, understood mediator part now
Jay
no comment, makes sense
Nick
still need to get some clarity on how the outcome will be shared?
question marks?
reports on the list? who are they?
self-assign might not be enough
Vas
probably makes no sense to see ongoing list of issues with question marks
self-assignment does have this box to explain the group process to the the role if there is another process they should go through
what happens if you have multiple mediators and there is a conflict between them, but that’s an edge case
can you still directly start a membership review?
Nathalie
no strong feelings about the list of ongoing issues? could just show how many ongoing issues?
about showing outcome, logged in history log? sanctions/names? but not access for detailed pages, only outcome information
for overview list, could show still-active sanctions, maybe don’t need a very obvious place to see all history of people
if you can just assign mediator role? is that enough of a barrier?
maybe include a delay in getting the mediator role (or getting access to the view) before you can assign as mediator for an issue? 1 month? 2 weeks? or only new reports?
other way of getting roles, declare your interest in a role… and get it by another process, but that’s all a bit further away
Nick clarifications:
lot of confusion on wording with ‘issues’
two types of issues, often ambiguous
outcome of a report is a decision that may include a sanction
comment and archive is not a sanction but still a decision
extra concept is the ‘decision’
not specified how decisions can be ‘reversed’. Not gonna implement that
include history log with ‘decisions’
currently there is no list of concluded issues, history doesn’t include details
Nathalie
particularly have a need to show the sanctions
Proposal:
take Bruno’s design
can’t reverse/change decisions
show outcome
outcome = decision + any sanction + any comment + who the mediator was + who the report was about (not the initial report, or the reporter)
accessible, but not too visible
outcome in history log
show outcome on issue overview
self-assign mediator role
Consent round:
Nathalie
would like to have some kind of commitment to explore the self-assigned role
happy to consent in the propsal as it is
Sofi
understands there are tensions, but the current version is well reasoned
consent
Jay:
accessible but not to visible bit
Consent
Vas
consent
only comment is “accessible but not visible” bit, don’t see why to have it in proposal, adds more confusion
Nick
I consent!
we reached consent
Think about NLnet Common’s Funding project (deadline 01/08)
skimming through the link (which link? commonsfund link I guess) web4, internet of things
maybe getting a bit of an overview of what they’re looking for, and what direction to move towards (e.g. web4), thinking in web4 ways… which is maybe beyond our capacity
some foodsaving initiatives with smart fridges etc. open
seems different to previous calls, a bit more advanced, going more into physical realm
have hard deadline 25th July, after that can contribute to proposal itself
nathalie
enjoyed the energy, enthusiasm
a bit sad it didn’t get the full attention it deserved, but appreciating it
sounds promising, motivated to get involved
wasn’t super clear what is seen in the nlnet proposal
would like to pay attention to how detailed or openness we can have, regarding the design process… previously we submitted almost predetirmined outcome for the design processes
it has a lot of impact on our priorities we’d work on
Sofi
will read past applications + nlnet call to see what they’re looking for
chose more development-related things, rather than food-related ones
@Jay reporting an issue (as a Karrot user in FS Lux): when the time of a pickup is changed, the person signed up is removed from the event and there’s a lot of conflicts coming up lately because of people taking “someone else’s” slot when a person is removed. Is there some UX work we could do to prevent this?
@Jay pointing out a feature/bug we could work on (maybe simple coding task if someone feels like addressing it?): on pads, when a text has a link (like here, for example), there is no way to actually open it, since clicking on it simply moves the editing cursor to the text. Maybe implement something like CTRL+click → opens link in new tab?
thought we found something (and written something during the workshop with AI help) and Philip got in contact with a person who said it’s not ready yet! approx. 4 months in preparation
Horizon proposals
Person says
13 millions euros
2 projects will be funded
highly competitive
excellent proposal
10-20 different project partners
1. good proposal: national contact person for proposals, give us drafts of upcoming proposals
2. get together consortium: work together with people you know and like to work with - be aware of conflicts! can be challenging
from Graz, research center there
could imagine being lead together with Philip
network of people who do stuff in EU countries
great opportunity! 6 million €
EU urban system for sustainable food
huge amount of money
similar call in February and September
and karrot?
not every EU call is inter/ trans disciplinary
food sharing/ community building perspective
invite karrot and foodsharing
karrot would be a partner! (one of them)
Philip would apply as researcher of Siegen
a lot of work!
establish consortium
don’t know if it will turn out
need someone experienced on my side
bigger thing than karrot!
need to think about it for myself, will have a look into this
clear draft what to do before seeking partners - collaborative writing impossible to manage
continue conversation in coworking and next meeting
Later
feedback log
@Jay reporting an issue (as a Karrot user in FS Lux): when the time of a pickup is changed, the person signed up is removed from the event and there’s a lot of conflicts coming up lately because of people taking “someone else’s” slot when a person is removed. Is there some UX work we could do to prevent this?
@Jay pointing out a feature/bug we could work on (maybe simple coding task if someone feels like addressing it?): on pads, when a text has a link (like here, for example), there is no way to actually open it, since clicking on it simply moves the editing cursor to the text. Maybe implement something like CTRL+click → opens link in new tab?
there is a room that ppl can use, and Nat is getting involved
common resources use-case
mainly to book the room
motivated to improve German translation in the next weeks @Nathalie
statistics from Daniel, Luxembourg instance, total 608 user
59 German
88 Luxemburgisch
130 French
All For Climate Response
wrote back, looks like its gonna be an ongoing convo
“All For climate does have experience with European projects as we currently are hosting an Erasmus+ project.
However I would like to put you in contact with our team member Antonis (in cc) who’s managing the project and who has a lot of experience in applying for these type of grants.
But please already share what exactly you would like to apply for, elaborate a bit more on the project, is there a need of partner organisations, who will lead the project?“
will go through that together, vas and nat, co-working on Wednesday
feedback log
@Jay reporting an issue (as a Karrot user in FS Lux): when the time of a pickup is changed, the person signed up is removed from the event and there’s a lot of conflicts coming up lately because of people taking “someone else’s” slot when a person is removed. Is there some UX work we could do to prevent this?
Bruno will add to feedback log
@Jay pointing out a feature/bug we could work on (maybe simple coding task if someone feels like addressing it?): on pads, when a text has a link (like here, for example), there is no way to actually open it, since clicking on it simply moves the editing cursor to the text. Maybe implement something like CTRL+click → opens link in new tab?
reminded of the fee, which forgot to include in the overview
Nick:
recurring topic
relevant also for tax situation
discuss in money circle
5. Actions and Outcomes
Continue correspondence with All for Climate [Sofi]
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Jay]
test ‘block access from group* for more than 1 year [Bruno]
add nathalie’s list on the pad to the forum, and nick’s [Bruno]
check if money circle is schedule and if not, do it [Bruno]
alcohol free or have some alcohol? would be happy to have some on the side… maybe Nathalie can decide. when designing quiz, might not be enough people to do break out rooms? so maybe prepare activities to work for both scenarios
and be back
DONE 
