Weekly call about Karrot development 2025

Date: 2025-01-07 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: all
Participants: Nick, Jay, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:00h
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie doing her performance review within SoFA
      • Vasilis is visiting Nick today
    • next meetings:
      • co-working: Nathalie, Bruno, Nick and maybe Jay
      • focused co-working Thursday afternoon/ish: Nick, Jay, maybe Nathalie
      • weekly: Nathalie, Nick, Jay
    • pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas]
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie]
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie]
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas]
  • start working on guidance document for ‘performance reviews’ [Nathalie, Vas]
  • money admin work in coworking [Nathalie, Nick, Vas, Bruno]
    • done

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
    • collaborative docs
      • christmas bonus feature
      • screenshare from Nick
      • secret feature for now
      • shift + enter → new line within paragraph
      • enter → gives you a new paragraph (in markdown that’s an empty line between text)
      • how to integrate with the rest of karrot?
      • effort to support emojis and mentions
      • no document history, can’t save it, see edits
      • core editor is tiptap, implemented our own pro features
      • add customised blocks that are view components
      • Questions/ Reaction
        • dev.karrot.world? automatically deployed from main branch
        • sometimes announce in beta testers group to test
        • maybe have a release party with daves karrot groups cafe
          • nathalie has some ideas for a game to do with pads, etc…
        • happy to see the formatting seems to work
        • glad to see it merged!
        • bubble menu, floating menu where you highlight things, could also be a toolbar on the top
    • polls
      • more screenshare from Nick!
      • tidying up
      • no time limit on the poll, no public polls
    • bountiful bristol
    • roles
      • happy for input from jay
      • Eszter willing to give design input, Nick send an email to Nathalie and Eszter for talk about next steps
  • Integration session
    • Karrot
    • what is integration?
      • nathalie:
        • goal is to make decisions together that support everyones needs
        • took learnings from NVC (Non Violent Communication) - going to needs level
        • from a thought → but something underlying that speaks to a need
        • have a proposal, and people have concerns, but go to underlying needs, and make statements about the underlying need
        • then get creative to see how we integrate this need
        • speak a lot about “considerations”, concern → consideration
        • prominent learning, when go to needs level, relatable needs, can get more shared and solved
        • avoiding to get stuck on the positions/ideological perspectives, where you can get into fights
        • one takeaway: not much about convergence/divergence… we actually diverged a lot, at the end had to work out where we go… takeaway was to allow the divergence if that’s where it’s going, letting it flow a bit
      • nick:
        • miki kashtan, lot of work in NVC field
        • overwhelmed with terminology
        • we need these types of processes
        • personally was a bit overwhelmed: what are the necessary pre-conditions?
          • having a trusted group with a shared intention
        • got a bit long discussion in the session
        • even if it goes very broad, facilitator can help with story telling and framing ‘this is really an important topic’, ‘this is a good basis for our next steps’
        • process and digital tools?, easily gets technocratic, point people to processes and websites, could use pad and videocall
      • Nathalie:
        • not super clear thoughts, did I enjoy it or not?
        • expected a bit more theory input, very practise oriented
        • lots of things have heard in other places
        • quite a complex case to facilitate (the example in the workshop with 20 people)
        • was also thinking about how to guide workshops, enjoyed the openness and practise space
        • but wasn’t so clear it would be practise space more, maybe could have used it more for that, didn’t speak and wonder why
        • big group vs small group, sociocracy encourages small groups and trust building
        • but here said you can do it with 80 or 300, as needs don’t scale up with people (as needs are shared/common)
        • different levels of thinking/decision making
        • can see how this technique could work with larger groups
        • personally, did notice nicks stress, attention was split, having the call and the pad (nick and nathalie wrote notes in a shared pad)
        • interesting how digital can support process… in the end it’s about people talking and making connections, what degree can software provide it?
      • Nick
        • strong facilitation, key role and shape the session, make decisions how to proceed
        • make decision without any discussion possible, e.g. check for objections/ concerns
        • being reminded of other times, example didn’t feel relatable
      • jay
        • sounds like an interesting session!
  • nlnet timeline extension?
    • made a coworking item!

Next:

  • opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas]
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie]
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie]
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas]
  • start working on guidance document for ‘performance reviews’ [Nathalie, Vas]
  • more money admin: do tranfer and check expenses [Nick]
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay]
  • pad release party :tada: [Nathalie]
  • nick email eszter and nathalie [Nick]
  • get our head around nlnet tasks [coworking]
  • continue working on getting polls ready to merge [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout
1 Like

Date: 2025-01-14 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: Bruno
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Butze, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
    • attendance
    • duration: 1h10 (11:30 CET)
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meetings:
      • co-working: Bruno, Jay, Nick, Nathalie (later), maybe Butze (after his special operation)
      • focused co-working Thursday afternoon/ish: Nick, Jay, Nathalie
      • weekly: Nick, Bruno, Nathalie
    • pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: Bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas]
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie]
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie]
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas]
  • start working on guidance document for ‘performance reviews’ [Nathalie, Vas]
  • more money admin: do tranfer and check expenses [Nick]
    • done!
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay]
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie]
  • nick email eszter and nathalie [Nick]
    • yes!
  • get our head around nlnet tasks [coworking]
    • we did it! but nick didn’t email nlnet yet
  • continue working on getting polls ready to merge [Nick]
    • yes, progress! but still more, see updates

4. Discussion Points

  • updates

    • outage on sunday, Tilmann saved us
      • because of an automatic update on Redis. A restart on Karrot made it work again. Nick thinks about a way to solve it and make it more resilient, but not implementing that now
    • email issue
      • ongoing, still needs more investigation
    • polls
      • some details left to figure out
      • close to a merge!
    • update from last coworking
      • frontend and backend running now for Jay!
      • step by step approach
  • schedule next (design) session to focus on roles and permissions

    • next Tuesday at 8 pm (CET)
    • activity on Karrot
  • Submission to CHI conference Workshop on post-growth HCI?: Accepted Workshops – CHI 2025

    • Deadline: 13 February
    • Needs a topic and an artifact. Possible topic: prefiguration (prefigurative technology), maybe in connection to CSS. Possible artifact: Karrot
    • Butze, Leoni and Vas (if he wants) and whomever of us would like to be, ask Matt
    • Workshop will be hybrid
    • CHI will be in Yokohama, Japan at the end of April
    • Bruno: courios, will see if he has time to read and contribute.
    • Natalie: what does Philip need from us in this meeting? what will the workshop look like? Interested in the topic
    • Butze: get feedback, let you know and ask if Karrot can be the artifact
    • maybe not something we need to decide on, but anyhow all are fine with it.
    • a short discussion about double roles and keep this discussion for the future
    • Nick: lot of richness in the ambiguity about the roles of academia and activism. - Karrot in post-growth theme fits well. - curiosity at the sidelines. - if there is a session we can watch online.
    • Butze will draft something tomorrow at the co-working
  • money admin

    • updated amounts after lates money flow (see Karrot)
    • all clear, Nick approved Nathalie’s expense
    • share the responsibility so it’s not being a burden on the person thinking of it the most
    • not feelinglike a burden for now
    • question about Nick transfering from personal account
      • he did not look into it.
    • unsure about money situation in the near future when Nlnet money is over
    • reflection about OC’s design with the boxes showing what they think we should see, but not really interesting/relevant to us
    • pay coop cloud as suggested: Collective to Collective | Open Collective Docs
      • still haven’t paid
      • there was a question about the amount
      • another question about how we pay them, if we could do direct payments between collevtives
        • easy if part of the same fiscal host
        • if not… OC still working on that. Page not really helpful
      • try to follow the process: connect to the fiscal host of Coop-cloud and ask the to create an expense at our page. But not really clear
      • let’s not forget about this payment
      • actually this issue is quite old and they probably haven’t been working much on it
      • Nick does not feel very motivated to chase this, but if anyone is, they can be contacted on Element/Matrix - Get in touch - Co-op Cloud: Docs
      • would be nice to pay them, do we have clarity on the amount?
      • Nathalie could do something about it. But remember it’s also dependent on them

Next:

  • opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas] I
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] I
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie] I
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] I
  • start working on guidance document for ‘performance reviews’ [Nathalie, Vas] I
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] I
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie] I
  • e-mail Nlnet [Nick]
  • continue working on getting polls ready to merge [Nick]
  • send design on roles to Butze [Nathalie]
  • communicate with coop cloud about our payment [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2025-01-21 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Nathalie
Participants: Nathalie, Bruno, Butze, Vas, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CET
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie not joining Karrot things in two weeks (03.02 - 07.02.)
      • Bruno travelling to Spain end of April
    • next meetings:
      • this evening design process on roles and permission: Nathalie, Nick, Bruno, Jay
      • co-working: Bruno, Vas, Nick, Nathalie
      • focused co-working Thursday afternoon/ish: maybe Vas and Nathalie, Nick, Jay
      • weekly: Bruno, Nathalie, Vas, Nick. Butze
    • pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: Vas

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas] I
    • other things to prioritise
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] I
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie] I
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] I
  • start working on guidance document for ‘performance reviews’ [Nathalie, Vas] I
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] I
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie] I
    • not yet but soon, working on polls
  • e-mail Nlnet [Nick]
  • continue working on getting polls ready to merge [Nick]
    • language strings still to do
    • really really close!
  • send design on roles to Butze [Nathalie]
    • yes!
  • communicate with coop cloud about our payment [Nathalie]

4. Discussion Points

  • updates

    • activity on codeberg, new contributor, nick communicating with Leni
    • jay did some work e.g. setting up her working environment
    • continious work on roles design
  • post-growth workshop contribution

    • you can access and comment here: Prefigurative Technology in Action.docx - Google Docs
    • Philip worked on this last co-working, seems good enough to make a workshop out of this
    • ‘progressive interface’ wording, ‘Design for Incremental Appropriation (DIA)’ as another suggestion
      • politcal meaning of ‘progressive’
    • Reactions
      • likes DIA wording, broader context, not just the interface, appropriate technologies is a topic too, for us it’s about the interface, but could be seen broader
      • Philip as first author, Karrot team as a whole mentioned? or naming affiliation
      • terminology within a context, progressive enhancement in software (html, js), what is the context of the audience? would our karrot groups understand DIA
      • if it’s something academic and that’s the context, the term seems fine
      • meaningful and promising, also came up in conversation with Bountiful Bristol, guiding a group, how to build a group, develop a resource library, talk to people
      • progressive and music comes to my mind
      • how to make most out of it? Philip to continue working on this and getting feedback
      • not yet being practised but discussed, interface in a metaphoric sense
      • creating karrot together, how we produce software, getting engaged with the groups/ users and understanding them
      • how to the design the feature as part of the workshop?
      • will reach out once reading through it
      • appropriation in the context of cultural appropriation
      • likes idea of expanding interface
      • progressive and post-growth? Philip will go with DIA term but makes a note how karrot is using progressive interface
      • show karrot to the post-growth community, maybe meet new people/ contributors?
      • still happy about co-authors
        • Bruno: yes!
      • how we operate, take decisions, distribute money, mention this aswell? not only about the product but the process behind that, has many facets
      • add a sentence to describe our culture, not so easy to pin it down
  • statistics inconsistency

    • report from Daniel
    • Nathalie gave intro to the issue, statistic page and feedback tab on place
    • need to bring this topic into this call
    • recreate it? don’t have access to Luxembourg data
    • other type of data report, export data and customise report, long thread in karrot group
    • push problem to technical user in group
    • how to recreate the issue?
      • ask Daniel more?
      • rounding error
      • look into Warsaw group
    • query on statistic page is really complicated, but some work was put into this in the past
    • need to gain motivation to dig into this
  • find a time for Vas’ focus-‘performance review’ session

    • use a coworking session or general call
    • do a short general call and to performance review after
    • session to ask for feedback, structure borrowed from sociocracy
    • proposal: split next meeting in 2 parts, 1.5h in total
      • seems fine
      • Nathalie and Vas will prepare

Next:

  • opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas] II
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] II
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie] II
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] II
  • start working on guidance document for ‘performance reviews’ [Nathalie, Vas] II
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] II
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie] II
  • e-mail Nlnet [Nick] I
  • continue working on getting polls ready to merge [Nick] I
  • communicate with coop cloud about our payment [Nathalie] I-
  • continue working on sanctions design [Bruno]
  • vas do your invoices [Vas]
  • add a sentence to workshop paper [Bruno, Vas]
  • check own group to see if there’s inconsistency on statistic, add to board [Bruno]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2025-01-28 on Karrot
Facilitator: Vas
Minutes: everyone, Vas
Participants: Vas, Nick, Nathalie

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
    • attendance
    • duration: 11.45 (Uk time)
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nathalie might not join next weekly call
      • Vas travel plans
      • bountiful bristol Nick and Matt meeeting in person for a workshop that includes Karrot
    • next meetings:
      • co-working: Nick, Bruno, Nathalie, Vas, Eszter
      • focused co-working Thursday afternoon/ish: Nathalie, Nick, Vas (if in the village)
      • weekly:
    • pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas] II
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] II
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie] II
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] II
  • start working on guidance document for ‘performance reviews’ [Nathalie, Vas] II
    • done!
    • might continue the topic in a future meeting
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] II
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie] II
  • e-mail Nlnet [Nick] I
    • done
  • continue working on getting polls ready to merge [Nick] I
    • done and merged
  • communicate with coop cloud about our payment [Nathalie] I-
  • continue working on sanctions design [Bruno]
  • vas do your invoices [Vas]
    • not quite done
  • add a sentence to workshop paper [Bruno, Vas]
  • check own group to see if there’s inconsistency on statistics, add to board [Bruno]

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
    • last co-working Nathalie worked on roles design [nathalie]
      • working towards wrapping it up
      • there is a new-ish version
    • looking at statistics discrepancy [nick]
    • all features which have been merged will be released soon [nick]
  • role design timing - when to bring to weekly meeting and decide? [nathalie]
    • plan it to bring in the weekly call in 2 weeks
    • two weeks is fine
  • nlnet deadline, mou change? [nick]
    • emailed asking for extension
    • swap a task with something else
      • we can propose a tangible MoU change
    • collaborative pad funded
      • might add it in as a modification in the MoU
    • asked till sept but we got till end of May
    • they asked to know how much we can accomplish within this timeframe
    • a lot of that is on me (Nick)
    • collect modification proposals from Karrot-team
    • “On another note: will the project soon be able to profit from the security & accessibility audits we offer?”
      • gerben@nlnet.nl
      • 2023-08-327@nlnet.nl
      • include time line
  • collaborative decision making collab [nick]
    • Alex from collab decision making
    • working on an NLnet application, curious about intergration with Karrot, quite well organised
  • collective care - short thought [nathalie]
    • flowing chat about the topic
      Next:
  • Bristol uni next steps (if any) [vas]
  • opencollective (linking opencollective and karrot instance) [vas]

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • rework from scratch agreement related to data interventions [vas] III
  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] III
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie] III
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] III
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] III
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie] III
  • communicate with coop cloud about our payment [Nathalie] II
  • continue working on sanctions design [Bruno] I
  • add a sentence to workshop paper [Bruno, Vas] I
  • vas do your invoices [Vas] I
  • contact Gerben about security & accessibility audits [Nathalie]
  • Write on the wall about NLnet tasks [Nick]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2025-02-04 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Vas, Nick, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 central europe
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meetings:
      • co-working:
        • groups cafe:
        • wednesday: vas, bruno, nick
        • thursday: nathalie, nick, maybe vas
      • weekly: nick, bruno, vas
    • pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

contact Gerben about security & accessibility audits @Nathalie

  • I think was done?
  • Write on the wall about NLnet tasks @Nick Sellen

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
  • bountiful bristol meeting report/update @Nick Sellen
    • met with Rachel and Matt yday and gonna do a trial of using karrot for their network
    • framed around the growing season this year
    • have been running for 3 years, allotments, food banks
    • main aim: passing/coordinating food to be moved between members-org of the network
    • run it peer-to-peer
    • one karrot group and seperate Places for each node of the network
    • sign up new account is one of the challenges
    • potential matt can get some further funding to do design sessions with the ppl
    • so we can live up to the promise of working with the user-communities
    • we set up activities and places
    • maps and offers seem particularly useful to them
    • using groups or places? One group was created with different places, customizing places types and activity types
    • thinking about levels of governance and interactions (group-level and beyond)
    • trust system seemed fine
  • Bristol uni next steps (if any) @Vasilis Vasilakis (Ntouros)
    • not much to share
    • matt in siegen hopefully, contribute to paper
    • was a bit stuck before, how to follow up

Action Plan/Intentions plan @Vasilis Vasilakis (Ntouros)

  • https://pad.kanthaus.online/karrot-performance-review?edit#
  • Bruno: fine to me. 1st one is good, work on yourself, don’t feel very affected by that, its a nice action point, sharing negative feelings is better having a chat with Nathalie, came mostly from Nathalie, had also a feedback on what Nat meant, have a chat with Nat, keeping a balance to the personal and the project, its a matter of balance and group dynamics, writing CV of Karrot could be interesting and a video presentation could be good in general, CSS thing looks nice, we can just start with it, there is nothing stopping it to start it right away, regular updates that’s good, be clear on the status of what ur doing, that connects to the guilt feeling, not gonna happen (its on hold, abandon this or that). Welcome the feedback, one thing I was missing the appreciation toward following up with the groups, keeping up those connections, maybe incorporate that. So ther is a question of why this was left out? (time, motivation etc?)
  • Nick: putting the guilt in the fire, its good, embrace active motivation, no need to keep the guilt, ‘what is my motivation now’ is potentially helpful with that, agree with doom and gloom, like that wholeself approach, bruno’s point to remind that nathalie that is not quite what i meant, i d rather have u in the calls with doom and gloom, karrot also functions as a human connection thing as well, I m happy to have ppl to show up as humans, funding thing is very welcome, particularly considering that u got some insights from the academic world, would like to see a more ‘strategic’ approach on funding karrot, css thing and curious if it feels good or if u feel pressured on that, if there is a way to engage with it just now can be useful from ur ‘karrot’ point of view. if u get a position then its good, and a paper alike would be useful to have it. CSS been in limbo for long time, writing with people so didnt get a sense where we are at, is it gonna fall in the gaps?. Feedback on dev feautures this is where I d love more focus on, it a core part of what comes out of our discusssions, the tangible things, as soon as one thing is deployed then all comments/views/concerns come up, more proactive feedback can be useful and very welcome. Following up with groups is sth I see valuable.
  • vas:
    • didn’t leave out connecting with groups on purpose, need to make sure there is time/energy, can incorporate it as “intentions” plan, to work towards the direction
    • doom & gloom: was constructive what I heard from Nathalie, in two minds. not sure how good it is for me to verbalize stress, I know I can share it. maybe needed this advice. unsure how to proceed right now
    • guilt: comes from inability to have schedule/plan etc. don’t feel can contribute a lot, always in small amounts in this or that… can see how that sense can come contagious, happy to put it in the fire! or even pretend not to feel guilty :face_with_peeking_eye: … feels clearer to feel motivated to reach out to the academics, etc…
    • CSS: a bit hesitant, happy butze and matt and keen to work on it together. can’t change perspective that there is big difference between academic paper and trying it out in real life, cannot take on responsibility of it in karrot on my own. receptive to ideas of Just Trying It Out too.
  • feedback on using pad inside karrot
    • scroll was jumping up back to cursor, liked using it, opened it on mobile, everything sync’d ok, wondering how it works with copy and pasting, how to use it for next solikyl meeting? lots of open questions then, how to organise pads, put content into different places in karrot, etc.
    • karrot suite (like adobe suite), maybe could have an own pad in karrot to keep track of diary notes, @-mentions using full display name is quite long (for vas), great having pad
    • Nick: wanted a full screen, struggling a bit with my windows, unify one window where u got faces and pad and chat all together would be nice, the @mentions use the display name, the karrot suite/sweet I like, saw recently a all-in one productivity suite, all-in-one community organising tool would be a way forward?

Next time:

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] IV
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie] IV
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] IV
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] IV
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie] IV
  • communicate with coop cloud about our payment [Nathalie] III
  • continue working on sanctions design [Bruno] II
  • do VAT thing on invoice [Vas]
  • Write on the wall about NLnet tasks [Nick] I
  • Incoprorate feedback from Nick and Bruno to the action/intentions plan [Vas]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
    • checkout
1 Like

Date: 2025-02-11 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: everyone
Participants: Bruno, Vas, Nathalie, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
    • attendance
    • duration: 11:30 CET
    • information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meetings:
      • groups cafe:

        • not much attendance but will keep going on
      • co-working:

        • wednesday: Vasilis, Nick, Nathalie
        • thursday: Vasilis, Nathalie
      • weekly: vasilis, bruno, nick, nathalie

    • pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] IV
  • sit down and think what to do after Bristol personally [Nathalie] IV
    • done, reviewed initial text written about trust
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] IV
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] IV
  • pad release party planning :tada: [Nathalie] IV
    • conversation started!
  • communicate with coop cloud about our payment [Nathalie] III
    • done, might need a follow up in the future
  • continue working on sanctions design [Bruno] II
  • do VAT thing on invoice [Vas]
    • done :+1:
  • Write on the wall about NLnet tasks [Nick] I
    • done
  • Incoprorate feedback from Nick and Bruno to the action/intentions plan [Vas]

4. Discussion Points

  • updates
  • roles design @Nathalie [D]
    • see latest design
    • to do’s on my mind
      • write up summaries of the conversations I had (notes from last co-working with Eszter/ Bruno, key thoughts from chat with Nick, feedback from Daniel) and post on forum
      • collect all relevant links for rfp and ask someone to submit it
      • make improvements based on today’s feedback
      • clarify work on ‘Develop permissions system’
    • Reaction
      • Bruno: nice things
        • @ mentions is a nice touch
        • roles and the profile page
        • display of the roleholders at each place
        • connecting role to place: another way to do it would be that this role can be linked to a place, so when someone gets a role then they are prompted to connect the role to the place, will allow for some flexibility, would reduce the complexity possibly
        • newcomer role is not clear on the design what is the dif between that and member role
        • system roles: some kind of visual cue that they refer to system roles so you can distinguish them from the groups’ self-made roles
      • Nick:
        • I think its very nice, good idea to get Daniel feedback as well
        • members page could also show roles, but leave it for now
        • how does ‘approved’ role fit in? get rid of it? it’s a trust-based role. not many groups have it now
        • role in places: enabling role for each place vs blank mode (assign any place). board member example: board member of a store? store coordinator for not a store? there should be a store coordinator, even if not filled. Which roles are relevant for which places? Show vacancies.
        • complexity comes with roles at places, adding bureaucracy. Place list could be enormous for some groups
        • newcomer: anyone that doesn’t have another role (expect member). Maybe we don’t need it? shows green indicator when signing up for activities. There were reasons it was implemented
      • Vas:
        • design looks very elaborated, very happy with this
        • not much to add
        • approved role? how do we fit it in there. Adopt it to the new design.
      • Nathalie:
        • thank you for useful feedback and happy how it lands
        • makes sense to me to create the roles in the places
        • agree with the complexity
        • Consent round: on the proposal for roles, on the broad concept as presented by Nathalie
          • Bruno: I consent but not fully convinced of how display vacancies outweights the complexity added
          • Vasileios: I consent
          • Nick: I consent and note that further details can be refined
          • Nathalie: I do consent
        • consent from all!
  • CSS paper for C&T @Vasilis Vasilakis (Ntouros)
    • C&T= communities and technologies conference in siegen this summer
    • some updates/reflections/concerns
    • expecting paper to get accepted this time
    • some doubts around distinction between existing collaboration software production methods (e.g. open source)
    • bruno:
      • sounds worth elaborating the tom-ayto tom-aaaarto distinction
      • highighting differences between commons based peer production, etc.
      • perhaps difference between users and producers is bigger in other models, and expertise required
      • nice! curious to read a draft
    • nick:
      • from karrot perspective: we’re missing a model. Once we get a model we can start doing stuff! User participation, contribute money, how to meaningfully bring users in it
      • waiting period to get a model
      • paper and concept: focus on conference and what the academic world says
      • proceed with what karrot is doing, then academia can write about it
      • karrot-centered perspective: should we just proceed or wait for a concept?
      • for me concept is very distinct, e.g. open-source is not an economic model, it’s an capitalist term actually
      • CSS direct grass-roots vibe, out it into practise
      • keen to bring it in discourse with other people, wait till there is a paper/ open thing to share. E.g. gfsc
    • nathalie:
      • would benefit from another presentation, once have capacity
      • feel a bit bad not really reading through your work
      • maybe can bring it to the space, or co-working, and get head into it
      • not really sure about the academic discourse, or what the definitions are, so right now can’t really comment on the content level
      • agree with question of are we waiting for something to come out to start, or can we make our own sense of it, but would like to know what is out there already, and what is still missing, what would we need to define in terms of applying it
      • happy you’re still working on this!
      • nice to understand community driven things as subset of open source, and nice to bring it Matt with his community tech focus
      • is this conference in siegen relevant for karrot as a team?
    • vasilis:
      • good feedback
      • a bit of a division between what we say, and what the academics I need to reference are saying
      • I have to balance world of acadmics, e.g. post doc application, and can be valuable having something coming back for karrot that is peer-reviewed, and presented in a conference, and get some funding to pilot it in a project
      • different between frameworks and models, model is quite strict - take it and put it somewhere and it works. framework is more open and flexible, and have it’s own life in a project.
      • have a dictionary/lexicon at the end, and define key points and terms
      • discussions around local/hyper-local, heterogeneous/homogeneous
      • something to start building on, and other terms coming to support it, developing a language of communciation for how you can try out a framework
  • plan a release party @Nathalie [E]
    • use date of a community cafe and coordinate with Dave
    • initially thought about making it soon, but maybe even wait till early June after nlnet funding?
    • Dave thinking about frequency of community cafes
    • don’t need to join the planning, but would like it if people joined the thing
    • trying to gauge interest
    • maybe prepare a session, invite groups, prepare a quiz, leisure mode
    • making a quiz in the pad, playing with the feature
    • chatting with dave, give it a bit more time/planning
    • so even do end-of-funding party… so more like june, honouring the funding period?
    • Bruno:
      • end of funding celebration sound really nice
      • showing a whole bunch of features, can be quite engaging, invite all the people we have contact with, put up a banner in karrot
      • would be nice!
    • vasilis:
      • that’s great! :partying_face:
      • happy to join, and maybe contribute to the planning if supported wanted
      • like the end of funding celebration idea
    • nick:
      • the end of funding party, release party for other features
      • the leisure mode vibe…joy mode is what i had in mind
    • nathalie:
      • good, will approach vasilis further organising
      • that’s ENOUGH

next time:

5. Actions and Outcomes

  • write follow up about CSS on forum post [Nathalie] V
  • forum post on Bristol days - ongoing [vas] V
  • transfer money to karrot [Jay] V
  • continue working on sanctions design [Bruno] III
  • Incoprorate feedback from Nick and Bruno to the action/intentions plan [Vas]I