Write to Tilmann and maybe Timber about the server and our discussions @Nick Sellen@Nathalie
Nathalie wrote to timber
next step is signal group
4. Discussion points
updates
none
release
banner text, test on dev (Bruno has action item)
2 or 1 banner texts?
pre- release
at the time
check with Nick about pre-release banner
use text from karrot group for a forum post! and link this post in banner
Nathalie could do more testing in co-working tomorrow (if she joins)
feedback issue? high demand bug fix
if not now def next
but maybe nowâŠ
workshop Göteborg
Bruno has an idea!
karrot focused work, get together for the team, onboard new contributors like Wilhelm and others
foodsharing Sweden project side; Nathalie & Butze lots of experience with foodsharing, foodsharing focused workshop, maybe started outreach already and there is interest from other cities in the region
Bruno can organise places to stay
connections hard to establish online, get more Swedish people on board!
Bruno & Butze talked about March, spring-time
finance with project money as part of the development money (~7000âŹ)
reactions
checking the Bristol days pad (2300 EUR inc. Airbnb)
2k-3k sounds feasible
thinking about how much for travel expenses and how much for development
more interested in number 1 (Karrot)
can imagine being a guest for a workshop on number 2
donât know much about food safety. is it a big topic there? B: not really
Butze seems really interested, better candidate to lead this, maybe he could even bring Anton?
it would feel odd if introduced as a person from FS Germany
invite someone from Foodsharing is an idea
think we should start planning this now
the sooner we get to it the more likely
how long could it be? a week?
Bruno: could be as long as you wish! maybe span over 2 weekends, flexible from my side. have one whole weekend in this time frame
March/ April seem good
people are happy when spring starts, there is also a forest close by
donât use the membership review feature, partly from when it used to notify the whole group each time
people spread out around the town, donât always want to take positions about issues coming up
many people donât really understand the voting membership review feature
plan to write to karrot team in advance got a bit rushed, and they heard before, and it got chaotic
round:
nathalie:
Q: do you think the sanctions feature could have helped?
process seems well documented and fine
not so interested in all the details of exactly what happened within the group
reflected on our agreement, have all the pieces in place
need to follow up with the person
excluding from the group yes, but the what about from the whole instance? is that a question, would think âprobably notâ (exclude them from the whole instance)
would we act the same way for any karrot group? responsiveness, etc⊠probably not?
jay:
so many questions and so many things to say! have been thinking about it a lot
had a gut feeling, donât like it when we override some rules, put in place some rules, then block them kick them out, censor their messages
seems a lot of effort to make things fair, then override it, means structure is probably not good enough and need to adapt it
thinking of cases where it could be abused, e.g. where somehow has some power in an organisation and asks karrot to kick them out
surprised about decision to censor message, there was a previous case of somebody writing a lot of incoherent aggressive messages, but in this case message was just pointing out faults of the organisation
maybe could have been handled using accountability features within karrot (e.g. showing dates, etc.)
censoring a message gives a sense of something to hide, what if something is going on, do they have another way of reporting it
butze:
donât want to add much
excluding people from a group is harshest thing I know about from community
every case is crazy, experienced it a couple of times, and currently going through it in siegen, it causes ending of initiatives
have been a big hippy before saying noone gets excluded, but really changed my mind
would like to say âyesâ that sanctions would have helped⊠but a bit hesitant. Situation developed over years, complex. In this case rather ânoâ
tricky position to be in, board of a group and part of karrot team
donât think weâve overridden any processes
sense of trust is also part of our agreement, want to lift this up
trying to not talk about details, keeping a healthy distance for karrot team
team decision is still necessary
Proposal
rework our agreement
to include temporary restrictions pending further decision
to consider communication ways
to improve accountability by having an internal write-up of what happened
âAntrĂ€ge können grundsĂ€tzlich nur aus einer Hochschule bzw. gemeinnĂŒtzigen Forschungseinrichtung heraus gestellt werden.â
is Siegen interested/ doing this anyway?
oc newsletter had a bunch of ideas, see Money Flow place
Lush Charity Pot: Nathalie did apply once for foodsharing Festival, smaller projects, donât like funding travelling costs they write (but could try?), âsmall & easyâ, question of entity
didnât look at others
Eramus+: cooperation with groups, we are well positioned for that. foodsharing academy did it (Nathalie might get access to application form), how much coding? maybe design?
not very focused on that nowâŠ
Karrot does Göteborg
what needs to be done to make it happen?
create a place?
confirm definit interest from karrot team
find a time period
combine with foodsharing Sweden workshops and karrot workshops â needs planning
how does it fit in the foodsharing Sweden timeline?
instance up and running
started outreach campaign
more realistic: maybe we wonât have that⊠depends on when
time to work on this together
thinking of March⊠and set-up instance together
or April/ May weâd have the instance already and some groups from Sweden to come as well (more optimistic), could work on other karrot things
some confusion about money left on peopleâs account. Is the 6000 EUR on Nickâs account correct? Did he transfer part of it?
for now we trust whatâs on the pad, gotta check again with Nick
-880,00âŹ/ month team members for October/ November/ December
Nick: 400âŹ
Nathalie: 250âŹ
still outstanding for Dec, 250 till the end of the year, ideally continue with this number, do not need an answer now. letâs see in Jan
Bruno: 0âŹ
keep at the same 0 rate, if we keep the same will last for 4-5 months, not counting the fsharing sweden money though
Vas: 230âŹ
need to give back 40
Vas needs to transfer the money to the OC then or keep them for Jan
Jay: 0âŹ
no updates, speaking about the money flow, bit stalled on the app for financial planning, thinking of how transfers could be recorded, plan to come up with a solution for the financial planning
Butze: 0âŹ
next steps
check with Nick on overall balance
Nathalie & Nick do outstanding payments
bring back to meeting in Jan for ongoing payments
work on Foodsharing Sweden [bruno]
update and share some questions and thoughts, no need to decide now
admin and money related, how to deal with the money
checked with Wilhelm, if would be interested in working in this project
how we deal with the money flow?
we have a budget 73.000 SEK which is 6-7k in euros and need to deliver
instance for sweden, with some custom standing pages, menu, landing page etc
check with nick and the plugin system
could cover things such as travelling to gotenburg
Jay:
interested on the trip
Nat:
understood that instance is not on Karrot, but support and development can be
would like to define responsibilities (deliverables), which is on Karrot level and which on FSS?
balance internal needs and paying non karrot team members, different payrates possible tension
Vas:
also same questions above
Bruno:
idea to organise a meetup in gotenburg, for team-reunions but also organise a workshop
the instance is not for the karrot-team to deliver
aiming to take care of it locally
there might be also some cost there
distribution of money is a bit tricky, do a partnership with karrot, be delivering this for this amount of money
Jay
could try to help, but also has a full-time job
Nathalie
likes Brunoâs project manager alter ego
what needs to be delivered?
karrotâs part could also be âtraining and supportâ
Bruno
Ɣhat needs to be done from fs sweden side:
deployment of own instance
customisation of landing page
add other static pages to karrot instance
also looking for someone to do design
karrot could also turn this to a bigger project
Vas
part of fs sweden budget is allocated to karrot? outsourcing to another community?
Bruno: yes
next steps
further clarify tasks and do âmilestonesâ (money and who is doing what) nlnet-style, could include Wilhelm in that
really nice work, already gives a lot of clarity, appreciate it!
would push more in the nlnet style of milestones, splitting out the money, and how to include Wilhelm
are the hosting collective also getting money?
does foodsharing sweden want to pay someone to design/develop the pages?
still a bit of a mix of what karrot is doing and what FSS is doing
so could make it more into a plan
one stumble over for support and training for first couple of years? when will it be completed⊠doesnât feel easy to commit to, at some point money will be paid, could make a promise rather than a task to hold for years
also thinking about money for travelling costs
Nick:
appreciate work!
who feels responsible for task, who is supportive, time line to reuse
thinking about task organising and work strategy
happy to do a bunch of stuff, set up some things or set up infrastructure
useful to start conversation with hosting provider
timescale, some things might come quite soon
separation between general agreement of intention to collaborate and task oriented document
model of how to work with orgs using karrot, connects to strategy work, this could be our usual model in the future, thinking of different relations
Bruno:
nice to hear
realise my thoughts/concerns are around the boring/administrative stuff from FSS perspective
dealing with questions of money and payments
milestones make sense but in this project there is a total sum in one transaction
have to keep tied a bit to the original proposal to the funding source, has a set of things to be delivered, but not broken down in details
they would appreciate allocating some money for hosting, not clear how that works at the moment, some options
how would invoicing work if there is no legal entity for karrot?
bureaucracy like this has meant I avoided applying before
how to compensate Wilhelm, or others, if they work on it
on paper, Karrot is delivering a service, and invoicing for that, then delivering it
many questions still to resolve
idea for Wilhelm to contribute as part of Karrot, trying to include him as part of Karrot more broadly
a friend of Brunos working on design more broadly, logo, colour pallette, not sure how much theyâd go into website design
would make sense to have a more general agreement, first paragraph? and then dividing tasks as a separate working document?
Nathalie:
still would like more clarity on how we would divide the money
could speak soon, e.g. in co-working, about legal and money things, maybe helpful to think through it more
Nick:
relationship with hosting provider - inside or outside scope?
technical bits on how to get money in, could invoice as freelance business that would be tax liable
Bruno:
how to divide money? internal for Karrot to decide, from FSS perspective one amount + things to provide, would be great to talk in co-working about that
hosting people seem up for doing some kind of solidarity hosting and costs
could draft a simple agreement based on first paragraph, and maybe can make a decision on that
will contact Wilhelm, propose to do work through Karrot
questions of why, how long, travel costs, maybe march?
Bruno:
would be great to welcome us all in March
hopefully can decide an approximate date that works, then can decide on some of the logistics
how long? over a weekend seems too short, maybe a longer period of time? depends on how we plan what we do whilst we here, but nice to include a weekend, especially if a workshop to have it on the weekend
could stay for a week in total, or even more? will hopefully have apartment still, if I still have it, have place for 4, or even 5 or 6, depending on getting mattresseseseses, not a big place, only one bedroom, bunk bed, single bed, sofabed - walk in closet that can fit a mattress even
Nathalie:
thats nice!
quite flexible in March, maybe not first weekend, sounds do-able
easter holidays is beginning of April, so maybe not that weekend
travelling doesnât seem that expensive, 60EUR each way
taking Bristol days as a referenceâŠ
good idea to do workshop with FSS/others? butze was also very interested
maybe a couple of Karrot focused days, arriving, planning, then the weekend as highlight, then some team/leisure time ⊠would be about a week, a few days before, then weekend, then a few days after
sleeping situation sounds plenty of room
Nick:
sounds nice, getting excited!
a week sounds a nice time, Siegen and Luxembourg trip were shorter
weekend at the center sounds good too
space sounds great
picking the date, travel planning and booking, the rest can come later
get costs covered for UK - Gothenburg
sovereign tech conversation, bring in that dialogue
hack-session for karrot, are people interested?
do write-up, article coming from it, speak about this approach of organising
