@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Jay] II
last in april, havent invoiced which I d like to invoice pref in the next weeks, 1200⏠total (May to August)
prefers going through open collective
would like to keep the 300
the money helps, brings flexibility
flexible about direct payment, no strong opinion
Nick
how to manage payment? we have money, e.g. pending nlnet money
6000 euro currently + 4000 after approval of final thing + 1000 after vas is paid
calculate what months we can pay in full and pay until then
not sure if we can resume payments ongoing
money is running low; not critical but at a low point; Karrot money is significant
direct income form nlnet counts as donation and hence tax free; going through karrot again turns it into taxable income
not using open collective make it less transparent, difficult to bookkeep
personally: benefits of direct payment outweighs disadvanatges
Sofi
donât need money; pass
Bruno
has got 2500 EUR from nlnet in personal account waiting to be transfered
1200 EUR outstanding until August
would like to do the direct payment
flexible about when to get payed
happy to keep the same amount
Jay
Still okay with not being paid
No preference on how the payments are delivered
Planning to change jobs in about one year; until then Iâll be fine financially
Vas
moneywise: if not draining the project, happy to stay with the same amount
only stable source at the moment; got job from Switzerland, not sure when will be paid
no preference for direct payment
can work out the logistics later
make sense to commission and support open collective
Overview:
Outstanding
Nick: (paid up to feb) 6Ă500 = 3000
Nathalie May 4Ă300 = 1200
Bruno? looks like paid up to feb. 6 Ă 200? = 1200
Vas (paid up to december 2025) = 230 Ă 8 = 1840
1840 + 1200 + 1200 + 3000 = 7240 (up to and including august)
money available
âŹ2,188.18 (in open collective
6000EUR + 4000EUR on nicks account
2500EUR on bruno account
+ 1000 that will be after vas has RFPâd
10000 + 2500 + 1000 + 2188.18 = 15688.18
Round on continue payment
Nathalie
frustrated on the money process; ppl should be clear about what they have and how much they expect
work didnât really happened between 2 months ago and now
âwhen looking at it briefly, given everything stays the same, we get all the nlnet money and pay our outstanding payments and no other income, we could end the year with ~ +3700âŹâ
not sure how to improve the process wrt they standing on the issue on money
happy to pay everything until August and come back in a month
Bruno:
proposal: zero account on outgoing payments until august
maybe also ask for explicit consent on: do we do direct payments? or through OC?
another money circle in a month to figure out the rest
maybe we should have a treasurer
Sofi and Jay pass
Vas:
happy to proceed with payment until august
having a mix of direct and OC payment might be complex, but could also work
need to keep track of direct payments, ppl can do it on their own, maybe maintain account history on Karrot
^could eliminate the need for a treasurer
11th or 12th will RFP the tutorial; cannot invoice before then
what to do in the case of Nick? does he keep the $$$ for future outstanding payment?
Proposal
get your money everyone!
pay until August 2025 (including August)
itâs ok to keep nlnet money directly
prolong amounts for September
next money circle in 1 month
prepare!!
how much nlnet money is still on your account
what you want to go forward with
consent?
Q: transfer money to oc?
itâs ok to still keep it in your account, as in 1 month we check the numbers again
updates - R
Sanctions/Membership review tutorial
a bit postponed, until after Vas bike trip
help with starting issues on devâs Makerspace group
German translations
Daniel jumped in 99.9999% translated on dev
in the process discovered a few issues with the karrot code, opened some issues
Come up with a treasurer or a system to keep track and have an overview?
5. Actions and Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick]
more beta-testing [bruno] I
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Jay] III
Date: 2025-09-09 on Karrot
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: all
Participants: Jay, Bruno, Nathalie,
1. Opening
10 min Check in
attendance
duration: 1h
information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
Jay wonât be there next week
next meetings:
co-working:
wednesday: Bruno, Nathalie, Jay
Thursday: Jay, Nathalie maybe
weekly: Bruno, Nathalie most likely
pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: up for grabs!
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weekâs Actions/Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick]
more beta-testing [bruno] I
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Jay] III
can someone make an item for it on community? Jay has no access to community (since one month; technical issue)
on laptop: stuck on loading (before sign-in)
on smartphone: stuck on sign-in (after entering password)
Come up with a treasurer or a system to keep track and have an overview?
5. Actions and Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick] I
more beta-testing [bruno] II
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Bruno] III
Date: 2025-09-16 on Karrot
Facilitator: Sofi
Minutes: Bruno
Participants: Sofi, Nathalie, Bruno, Vas (later)
1. Opening
10 min Check in
attendance (fill in above): Sofi, Nathalie, Bruno
duration: 1 hour
information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
Nathalie might take a bit of time off in September
next meetings:
co-working:
wednesday: Bruno, Nathalie (for 1h)
Thursday:
weekly:
Sofi might not be here next week
pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: Bruno as a backup
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weekâs Actions/Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick] I
more beta-testing [bruno] II
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Bruno] III
they donât feel like big tasks, it will always come up
unpleasant if they accumulate
have a rotating schedule and everyone takes care of the tasks for 2 weeks
Bruno
formalise roles, use the role! (and the upcoming feature)
be it a group responsibility - risk of not getting it done
do it the sociocratic way?
having multiple ppl in charge might lead to ppl leaving it to others
we are currently not that active, so might be good to have reminders
there is also the issue of how: how do we accept new members? (maybe nice to write on the wall)
confused applicants⊠sometimes ppl did not find the right place
could do more of these tasks no
Nathalie
we do have the options of formalizing non-formalizing, open either way
raising awareness if we have a group responsibility: what do you feel responsible for?
we could that second round, but maybe not for today?
fine if things happen, but noticed things do not happen, making me unsatisfied
want to make sure this is not invisible work, likes when it comes up in last weekâs actions and outcome
maybe welcoming new ppl is its own topic, has some reflections on it, how to engage and facilitate the group
what do you feel responsible for?
Sofi
doesnât feel entitled to speak for group, not sure to respond to emails
taking on tasks that we all agreed upon on e.g. finance
do we need consent on replies?
welcoming new people, ask them to introduce on wall
Bruno
feel responsible for keeping up with certain lvl of activity, which comes in waves
when we are at the low point of the wave, things donât get done
something unsure about whether Iâm doing enough for Karrot
introducing new members: prompting new ppl to introduce themselves might be intimidating
just a welcoming message could be helpful
could bring up again next week
Nathalie
understood the question in particular for household task
feel responsible for keeping things going
like to engage with OC and accept things: quick and easy and not challenging
wrt emails and new members: donât always want to do this
concerned about letting go of the responsibility: it will just not get done
feel responsible for taking things to the meetings when tasks are left hanging
hesitant about going into the role of doing these things; would prefer doing other tasks for Karrot
Vas
pass
update on tutorial [Vas]
working on it, and itâs gonna be ready anytime soon!
Next meeting?
reflection/pause/cycles? [nick]
welcoming new people
Come up with a treasurer or a system to keep track and have an overview?
5. Actions and Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick] II
more beta-testing [bruno] III
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Bruno] IV
Date: 2025-09-23 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: anyone
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Bruno
1. Opening
10 min Check in
attendance (fill in above):
duration: up to hour, and extend if we need more time
information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
away a bit, mostly at the weekendâŠ
next meetings:
co-working:
wednesday: Bruno, NathalieâŠ
Thursday: no-oneâŠ
weekly STRATEGY SESSION!!! omg!!!: Sofi, Bruno, Nathalie, nick
pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: Nick
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weekâs Actions/Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick] II
more beta-testing [bruno] III
did some, but can do more
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Bruno] IV
at the bottom there is a âTentative sketch of sessionâ
Nathalie
happy to attend, looks really nice
wonder about the timings⊠time for inner reflection, then a round?
following your lead
really want to scroll up and read other things, what does form, storm, norm meeeeeean??
at some point we wondered how much we want to introduce other practises, still have tarot cards, but seems not fitting into this? how much do we want to play with different prompts? not proposing anything else⊠can still do something another time, e.g. in person in gothenburgâŠ
looking forward to it
Bruno
re-reading the first list including orgasmic meditation practise from adrienne maree brownâs list
have bigger design processes, connected to funding, but alsoâŠ
we have some smaller features that could benefit from a mini design process, so theyâre ready for implementation in the future
trying to find another little task to work on in the future
maybe could include some of these into the next funding? or other people joining who want to contribute?
can we review the board, and clean it up?
maybe after release + after the strategy, motivated to have a look at some medium-sized design processes, in penpot, etcâŠ
personal motivation - Iâve been adding a few things, having used karrot with local neighbourhood group
Bruno:
have to admit the board has been a bit abandoned from my side, for last months
doesnât mean not motivated to put some order there, cleanup
getting quite big⊠tendency is to get bigger⊠not really a clear priority order, except ânext upâ, but not really updatedâŠ
others donât mean priority order, maybe have some tags?
lots of relatively small stuff that would be good to focus on, but still like to put it into the bigger picture/context of the strategy⊠what is the time period⊠hopefully will emerge in the strategy sessionâŠ
Nick:
work in sprints in other projects, what goes into which period of work
clearer sense of our seasons, at the end of each one is a pause, next period coming up now, what shall will put in it?
issue boards get big and accumulate
place where stale things go, like seeds that can be reactivated, âseed boxâ
do it in the context of the strategy session
board a bit frustration, doesnât feel nice to use it
get community to upvote on features, engage wider karrot users
framing tasks intro a coherent idea
Nathalie:
as strategy session is upcoming, can see how it can come together
agree the board feels a bit added to discourse, a bit clunky⊠how much do I want to rethink the whole system, or just progress on some things? or just find something I can work on?
noticing I have some space for karrot work, but not a clear sense of what to do
some lingering tasksâŠ
main takeaway - a need for shaping the tasks in a nice package
Bruno:
if looking for someone to discuss/explore finding a task, feel welcome! talk through somethingâŠ
For the future:
welcoming new people
Come up with a treasurer or a system to keep track and have an overview? [?]
reflection/pause/cycles? [nick]
5. Actions and Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick] III
more beta-testing [bruno] IV
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Bruno] V
continue on finance app [Jay] II
look at how feedback works and think how it could be [Nathalie]
Date: 2025-10-07 on Karrot
Facilitator: Nathalie
Minutes: Vasilis
Participants: Nathalie, Vas, Nick
1. Opening
10 min Check in
attendance (fill in above):
duration: 11 CEST
information? any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
next meetings:
co-working:
wednesday: Vas, Nathalie
Thursday: Nathalie, Nick (maybe)
weekly: Nathalie, Nick, Vas
pick facilitator for next weekly meeting: Vas
2. Consent to agenda
2 min
3. Review last weekâs Actions/Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick] III
more beta-testing [bruno] IV
@Jay reporting an accessibility issue (for colour-blind individuals) on login page when wrong password is entered (red text on brown background) - bring to forum [Bruno] V
nick: calculation of months at that rate? around spring next year
whether should go down bit, for 2 reasons, since NLNet did less work but its gonna go up again, if we want to postpone the âd of dâ, part of my personal context got some money work on the side, still Karrot feels like my main project
Nathalie:
Nat: have it in my mind. how to bring more money in, would ideally stay in the same amount, do have this question of next year, would like a sense of continuation
Bruno:
thought that I could go down to 0, its very likely that we ll get some project money through Gothenburg projects, probs even bring some money into Karrot
Vasilis:
only more stable income at the minute, would be very nice to stay at same amount
will have some other money coming in soon, although not super sustainable
not super optimistic about being funded again in the near future
2nd round including a number
Nick: 400, 3 months till next round (end of the year)
Nathalie: 250
Bruno: 0, from Nov onwards, keep 300 for months of Sept and Oct or 200 Sept, 100 Oct, then 0
Vasilis: 230, 3 months till next round (end of year)
consent round:
all consent
Nick: how we move money. around?
nick transfers enough to OC so Nat can invoice till the end of the year
schedule next strategy meeting/ next steps @Nick Sellen where do we go now, given what we did last week?
still holding the topic, ideas â> clusters, not a big plan for next steps
outcome? how to relate these dif things together
clusters could become longer term
finance and features strategy is not disconnected
resourcing infrastructure is needed
going back to the tree metaphor, visualise, wonder if I could try it out
matt might be interested in our strategy
share it with some specific/âspecialâ. ppl outside-ish of Karrot
agreement in our karrot group (Karrot stategy), 3 components
visualisation part
detailed text version
operational layer (what rituals we have in order to bring it alive, spells and magic)
building another tidy up excalidraw version? HMW questions might work to further enrich our strategy model, how we have done the NLNet but without a deadline approach
would like to do some of this toward that
Bruno: I agree with the proposal, and could contribute in that, maybe text or excalidraw
Vas: not quite sure of the operational layer, can we predefine this? it appears in our karrot rituals/ meetings, something at the side to reflect on. Happy to contribute in the process.
Nathalie: pass
Nick: try excalidraw visualisation, Bruno draft text form?
towards next nlnet funding? - didnât cover in conversation
had it on his mind to write a book on community tech, asked vas to contribute
asked for small abstract
originally mentioned for vas to be mentioned as academic/phd student
⊠but got mentioned as karrot collective, hadnât agreed on that though
should let others know if thatâs the framing, asked to write on main wall about that
maybe karrot can get more central in the chapter, not just CSS-related, maybe get someone else on board from karrot collective? particularly nick, nathalie, bruno
matt wrote on the wall
also maybe strategy from matt to make book more âpeople from the groundâ than academic-only
with bristol university press, they will review the proposal now, no money involved
For the future:
how to welcome new people
discussion about book chapter
Come up with a treasurer or a system to keep track and have an overview? [?]
reflection/pause/cycles? [nick]
5. Actions and Outcomes
write to bartosz about csv report [nick] IV
more beta-testing [bruno] V
continue on finance app [Jay] III
watch Vasâ tutorial [Bruno, Nathalie, Nick]
try a visualisation of our strategy on excalidraw [Nick]
sketch a proposal for the strategy [Bruno]
vas checks xmas markets shifts and comes up with a date for the next strategy call [Vas]
wrote my research report on the work I did with Karrot [Sofi]
saw some papers on how grass-root communities fund themselves,
realized most rely on crowd-sourcingâmight be a good direction to go
ideas of adding features to donate and being transparent to users
itâs done, will it be shared? check with Phillip, itâs basically school work
maybe do a presentation?
local karrot group for neighbourhood organising gets promoted through housing association @Nathalie
using the group for booking the room, organizing activities and the public view
nice to get direct feedback from ppl using it and discuss if they want to open to more people
downtime on Friday
same problem as last downtime, diagnosed and fixed (but not!)
fixed for dev but did not want to restart Karrot at that moment, but forgot
redis automatic upgraded on the server and Karrot running in a container lost its connection to socket. Solution: in the actions and outcome
EfA was quick to report, so Nick got to know from Nathalie, Bruno and Dave
follow-up strategy [Bruno]
update
nice session, well organized, documented on excalidraw
outcome: Bruno will draft the text form, Nick will do visualization
next session, when?
7th Nov at 6 pm⊠Central Europe
discussion about book chapter [Vas]
Matt submitted proposal to write book about community tech and invited Vas, not affiliated as part of the Uni, but rather as part of the Karrot team
if itâs more Karrot-centric, how about more people writing together?
idea is to write about CSS
if the book is about community tech, what about having Karrot in a broader sense, since CSS is not really something Karrot is doing atm
some agreement about having a broader view of Karrot not limited to the particular CSS exploration
gotta wait to see the result of submission. We will have some freedom to work with Matt on what we want to put there, like one chapter about the history and another about CSS as something that came out of it. Or a big chapter about Karrot, its organization, challenges, etc.
Vas is having the bull by the horns
feature announcements [Nathalie]
thinking as head of marketing, importance of having announcements
could be a co-working task, Bruno and Nathalie can look it up. together tomorrow 15/10
question marks on the software
would enjoy to have someone to collaborate with
end of Oct sounds like it for release [nick]
Nathalie: how about announcing beforehand? do we want a buildup, or maybe not put pressure?
Nick: think itâs nice to build the hype, maybe not a precise date
local timebank where Vas sued to live, looking to apply for that
this project died for a couple of years but now they are trying to revive it
many nice projects in the area, community vibe
Vas will have a cover letter, CV and two people as reference, one of them the Uni director and the other maybe the person from makerspace or someone from Karrot
Q: is anyone willing to pick up the phone for that and vouch for Vas?
Nick is willing to use his nice British voice of authority
contacting VolontÀrbyrÄn [Bruno]
a platform for matchmaking between org and volunteers
see what happens if I contact them and present Karrot
leave it as open ended as possible
Nat: if you got motivation I m happy for u to take on it, fully understand what the aim of reaching out would be
Vas: a tool for their matchmaking? Or they acting as marketing people for Karrot? In favor of reaching out to them
Nick: the sense of matchmaking first and them suggest doing the coordination through Karrot. âAre you struggling to manage your volunteers? Hereâs Karrot!â. It seems to be part of their mission (page in English). The trouble about Karrot looking to be too foodsaving specific. Would be interesting to find about the need of the organizations they help
Sofi: good connection, nothing more to add
Next meeting
Come up with a treasurer or a system to keep track and have an overview? [?]
3rd tour, visited 10 districts, staying with ppl, discussing around foodsharing
same arguments over and over again
is it just about saving food?
how we get into systemic changes?
dillema of urgency vs strategic community building
very often ppl choose one over the other, saving food
keep up the âmachineâ approach
we have, or it feels like we have an impact, towards democracy, not top-down, supported them in the shift
new district, opening talk for the district, 2h discussion, was interesting that our workshop has been refined throughout the process, ending with a âresource mosaicâ
opening up the horizon, logistic enteurpreneurship to sth âbiggerâ, more resilient, open etc
highlight of our engagement, felt worthwhile, reached saturation gradually, decoupling of saving food and do more community things
what ppl worry about is signing too early, thinking of a tool that you cannot do that too often
Vas:
wonders about the appleâs feature (signing up really early), like a currency you get from the system
Nick
still capitalism through apples, they decay - maybe add this as a feature?
issue came up in karrot as well
what is the social answer? how would people resolve it without technology
A: Butze: you canât store more than 200 apples, also we are thinking of a democracy feature
how to deal with the dilemma of the pick-up machine?
Nathalie
quadratic voting in theory
did see the resource mosaic!
already in production
feature to have a screenshare?
Bruno:
same issue in Gotenburg, a nice way around this to make it random
bypass technical solutions, very competitive solutions, limit of how many you can do, there is a need to do some monitoring, makes it easy through karrot, interesting proposal, ups and downs
social supermarkets with big capitalist supermarkets, aliby and form of greenwashing, shitty food, ultra processed, may we shouldnt be saving this crappy food, greenwashing
historically Yunity / Foodsharing / Kanthaus server
Kanthaus still uses ukuvota, on this server
someone there has access to deploy changes (timber?)
a bit tricky that someone else would access to the database of Karrot
Nathalie:
trust⊠met timber, been there for some time
still trust in Kanthaus and member timber, so no concern
also thinking about access to the database, how easy it is for this person to look into it
how secure is Karrot? some people really care about it
donât have issues, but worth thinking about the server
Bruno:
long term makes sense to separate
given Nathalie says there is trust, get second-level trust
not ideal to have more shared access
shared infrastructure is a nice idea
not sure the best way to go about shared access technically
Jay:
separating is probably better
not sure what would be required to separate? more money? technical resources? more work?
if you trust them with the data, there probably wonât be an issue, as long as weâre aware of who has access, and weâre involved in the decisions
interesting discussion to have: how secure is karrot already, blindly trusting nick
maybe nick could do a short presentation on it
Nick:
makes a notable difference knowing there is trust from Nathalie and Tilmann
shared infrastructure would be nice, but this issue comes up again and again
type B platforms: end-to-end encrypted so that the person who has access cannot read messages/content
hard to develop the above, everything else goes into the type A: whomever is managing the server has access to the data. That is usually the case for most of the Internet
it will depend on the adminâs ethics, if they want to look up stuff and read it they could potentially do it. Nothing technically restricting them, but they gotta be very intentional to look it up
we had this conversation before, but we havenât enacted anything. We could explore more
three possible pathways
take over the server to make it a Karrot server only
formalize the shared access, accept what it is
move off of yuca to another server
Nathalie
motivated to reach out to Timber and point out we had this conversation
trust is more on Kanthaus than person
feels they are quite attentive to security and access issues
one step: open the conversation and point to the minutes
Bruno:
should be some awareness of it, and important to have that communication
see if we should formalize some shared agreement? as default option is keep the shared infrastructure, perhaps they could think we should split and have separate servers?
an issue is that if other people in kanthaus would have access, weâd want to be able to trust them, so for kanthaus to have that in place, and that we trust them not to mess around with karrot stuff
Jay:
agree with above
contacting them is a good idea
formalizing sounds like a good idea
relying on nathalies trust for them, donât know any of these people
an idea to have a meeting altogether?
Nick:
can imagine a little agreement/document laying out the situation
server can be considered Kanthauseâs
in the shared agreement we can have the people who have access
maybe a signal chat to coordinate work for the server
funding Foodsharing Sweden
no decision needed at the moment, but in the future would be nice
have been pursuing it for a while, voluntary meetings, applying for some funding
got some funding
idea is to spread more of the foodsharing concept to other cities in sweden
funding is from the region (where gothenburg is), so focusing on those
resources would not be limited to the region, so can be expanded to the rest of sweden
one of the pillars is to have own instance of Karrot on foodsharing.se which is already owned
make it more customizable
still keep concept of independent self-governed groups, but following basic principles to be able to share the same instance/brand
having the instance is a way of branding the movement, making it easier to get new projects going
educating / guiding / coaching as part of it, having material online to support people
https://matraddning.se/ is the current info site. hoping to include that content on the Karrot instance
some budget reserved for development work on Karrot
questions about who is running a new server, ideally someone local, who does design work? who does development work?
had done some prior work using the plugin system
300,000 SEK funding, less than 30kEUR - mostly to cover part time work, around 73,000 SEK (perhaps), ~7kEUR reserved for development work for Karrot, would be nice if Karrot could assume that, and make sure weâre clear on how we share the tasks/responsibilities between the projects - assume it would be money that goes into the Karrot money pot
Jay
happy got the funding
FS Luxembourg has deactivated chat and video meetings
not enough resources on the server
have you decided to activate them or not
Nick
congrats, takes time to get thngs off the ground
nice model with the federated organizational model, more resilient
hopeful it would be good for Karrot, to make a model, next level feature Karrot
opportunity to have an agreement, a formalization (not big) of collaboration
comment on video call: weâre using the free account on Livekit (50 GB/month, just enough for us) https://livekit.io
Bruno:
thinking about timeline aspect, would be nice to have online presence showing before we go out in the wild with groups starting new co-operations
itâs a 2 year project, would be nice to not have it very late having it up and running
maybe a separate meeting to have a plan
Nick:
howâs it gonna get hosted and managed
some cool radical collective that could do it?
important that I donât end up running things
most important changes: branding and what that looks like
did a bit of technical exploration before (most primitive is editing config files on server, but more advanced some admin interface)
also an idea to have components to be added to the interface
building documents and public pages based on the pad. It would help Karrot groups more broadly
Write to Tilmann and maybe Timber about the server and our discussions @Nick Sellen@Nathalie
Nathalie wrote to timber
next step is signal group
4. Discussion points
updates
none
release
banner text, test on dev (Bruno has action item)
2 or 1 banner texts?
pre- release
at the time
check with Nick about pre-release banner
use text from karrot group for a forum post! and link this post in banner
Nathalie could do more testing in co-working tomorrow (if she joins)
feedback issue? high demand bug fix
if not now def next
but maybe nowâŠ
workshop Göteborg
Bruno has an idea!
karrot focused work, get together for the team, onboard new contributors like Wilhelm and others
foodsharing Sweden project side; Nathalie & Butze lots of experience with foodsharing, foodsharing focused workshop, maybe started outreach already and there is interest from other cities in the region
Bruno can organise places to stay
connections hard to establish online, get more Swedish people on board!
Bruno & Butze talked about March, spring-time
finance with project money as part of the development money (~7000âŹ)
reactions
checking the Bristol days pad (2300 EUR inc. Airbnb)
2k-3k sounds feasible
thinking about how much for travel expenses and how much for development
more interested in number 1 (Karrot)
can imagine being a guest for a workshop on number 2
donât know much about food safety. is it a big topic there? B: not really
Butze seems really interested, better candidate to lead this, maybe he could even bring Anton?
it would feel odd if introduced as a person from FS Germany
invite someone from Foodsharing is an idea
think we should start planning this now
the sooner we get to it the more likely
how long could it be? a week?
Bruno: could be as long as you wish! maybe span over 2 weekends, flexible from my side. have one whole weekend in this time frame
March/ April seem good
people are happy when spring starts, there is also a forest close by
donât use the membership review feature, partly from when it used to notify the whole group each time
people spread out around the town, donât always want to take positions about issues coming up
many people donât really understand the voting membership review feature
plan to write to karrot team in advance got a bit rushed, and they heard before, and it got chaotic
round:
nathalie:
Q: do you think the sanctions feature could have helped?
process seems well documented and fine
not so interested in all the details of exactly what happened within the group
reflected on our agreement, have all the pieces in place
need to follow up with the person
excluding from the group yes, but the what about from the whole instance? is that a question, would think âprobably notâ (exclude them from the whole instance)
would we act the same way for any karrot group? responsiveness, etc⊠probably not?
jay:
so many questions and so many things to say! have been thinking about it a lot
had a gut feeling, donât like it when we override some rules, put in place some rules, then block them kick them out, censor their messages
seems a lot of effort to make things fair, then override it, means structure is probably not good enough and need to adapt it
thinking of cases where it could be abused, e.g. where somehow has some power in an organisation and asks karrot to kick them out
surprised about decision to censor message, there was a previous case of somebody writing a lot of incoherent aggressive messages, but in this case message was just pointing out faults of the organisation
maybe could have been handled using accountability features within karrot (e.g. showing dates, etc.)
censoring a message gives a sense of something to hide, what if something is going on, do they have another way of reporting it
butze:
donât want to add much
excluding people from a group is harshest thing I know about from community
every case is crazy, experienced it a couple of times, and currently going through it in siegen, it causes ending of initiatives
have been a big hippy before saying noone gets excluded, but really changed my mind
would like to say âyesâ that sanctions would have helped⊠but a bit hesitant. Situation developed over years, complex. In this case rather ânoâ
tricky position to be in, board of a group and part of karrot team
donât think weâve overridden any processes
sense of trust is also part of our agreement, want to lift this up
trying to not talk about details, keeping a healthy distance for karrot team
team decision is still necessary
Proposal
rework our agreement
to include temporary restrictions pending further decision
to consider communication ways
to improve accountability by having an internal write-up of what happened
âAntrĂ€ge können grundsĂ€tzlich nur aus einer Hochschule bzw. gemeinnĂŒtzigen Forschungseinrichtung heraus gestellt werden.â
is Siegen interested/ doing this anyway?
oc newsletter had a bunch of ideas, see Money Flow place
Lush Charity Pot: Nathalie did apply once for foodsharing Festival, smaller projects, donât like funding travelling costs they write (but could try?), âsmall & easyâ, question of entity
didnât look at others
Eramus+: cooperation with groups, we are well positioned for that. foodsharing academy did it (Nathalie might get access to application form), how much coding? maybe design?
not very focused on that nowâŠ
Karrot does Göteborg
what needs to be done to make it happen?
create a place?
confirm definit interest from karrot team
find a time period
combine with foodsharing Sweden workshops and karrot workshops â needs planning
how does it fit in the foodsharing Sweden timeline?
instance up and running
started outreach campaign
more realistic: maybe we wonât have that⊠depends on when
time to work on this together
thinking of March⊠and set-up instance together
or April/ May weâd have the instance already and some groups from Sweden to come as well (more optimistic), could work on other karrot things
some confusion about money left on peopleâs account. Is the 6000 EUR on Nickâs account correct? Did he transfer part of it?
for now we trust whatâs on the pad, gotta check again with Nick
-880,00âŹ/ month team members for October/ November/ December
Nick: 400âŹ
Nathalie: 250âŹ
still outstanding for Dec, 250 till the end of the year, ideally continue with this number, do not need an answer now. letâs see in Jan
Bruno: 0âŹ
keep at the same 0 rate, if we keep the same will last for 4-5 months, not counting the fsharing sweden money though
Vas: 230âŹ
need to give back 40
Vas needs to transfer the money to the OC then or keep them for Jan
Jay: 0âŹ
no updates, speaking about the money flow, bit stalled on the app for financial planning, thinking of how transfers could be recorded, plan to come up with a solution for the financial planning
Butze: 0âŹ
next steps
check with Nick on overall balance
Nathalie & Nick do outstanding payments
bring back to meeting in Jan for ongoing payments
work on Foodsharing Sweden [bruno]
update and share some questions and thoughts, no need to decide now
admin and money related, how to deal with the money
checked with Wilhelm, if would be interested in working in this project
how we deal with the money flow?
we have a budget 73.000 SEK which is 6-7k in euros and need to deliver
instance for sweden, with some custom standing pages, menu, landing page etc
check with nick and the plugin system
could cover things such as travelling to gotenburg
Jay:
interested on the trip
Nat:
understood that instance is not on Karrot, but support and development can be
would like to define responsibilities (deliverables), which is on Karrot level and which on FSS?
balance internal needs and paying non karrot team members, different payrates possible tension
Vas:
also same questions above
Bruno:
idea to organise a meetup in gotenburg, for team-reunions but also organise a workshop
the instance is not for the karrot-team to deliver
aiming to take care of it locally
there might be also some cost there
distribution of money is a bit tricky, do a partnership with karrot, be delivering this for this amount of money
Jay
could try to help, but also has a full-time job
Nathalie
likes Brunoâs project manager alter ego
what needs to be delivered?
karrotâs part could also be âtraining and supportâ
Bruno
Ɣhat needs to be done from fs sweden side:
deployment of own instance
customisation of landing page
add other static pages to karrot instance
also looking for someone to do design
karrot could also turn this to a bigger project
Vas
part of fs sweden budget is allocated to karrot? outsourcing to another community?
Bruno: yes
next steps
further clarify tasks and do âmilestonesâ (money and who is doing what) nlnet-style, could include Wilhelm in that
really nice work, already gives a lot of clarity, appreciate it!
would push more in the nlnet style of milestones, splitting out the money, and how to include Wilhelm
are the hosting collective also getting money?
does foodsharing sweden want to pay someone to design/develop the pages?
still a bit of a mix of what karrot is doing and what FSS is doing
so could make it more into a plan
one stumble over for support and training for first couple of years? when will it be completed⊠doesnât feel easy to commit to, at some point money will be paid, could make a promise rather than a task to hold for years
also thinking about money for travelling costs
Nick:
appreciate work!
who feels responsible for task, who is supportive, time line to reuse
thinking about task organising and work strategy
happy to do a bunch of stuff, set up some things or set up infrastructure
useful to start conversation with hosting provider
timescale, some things might come quite soon
separation between general agreement of intention to collaborate and task oriented document
model of how to work with orgs using karrot, connects to strategy work, this could be our usual model in the future, thinking of different relations
Bruno:
nice to hear
realise my thoughts/concerns are around the boring/administrative stuff from FSS perspective
dealing with questions of money and payments
milestones make sense but in this project there is a total sum in one transaction
have to keep tied a bit to the original proposal to the funding source, has a set of things to be delivered, but not broken down in details
they would appreciate allocating some money for hosting, not clear how that works at the moment, some options
how would invoicing work if there is no legal entity for karrot?
bureaucracy like this has meant I avoided applying before
how to compensate Wilhelm, or others, if they work on it
on paper, Karrot is delivering a service, and invoicing for that, then delivering it
many questions still to resolve
idea for Wilhelm to contribute as part of Karrot, trying to include him as part of Karrot more broadly
a friend of Brunos working on design more broadly, logo, colour pallette, not sure how much theyâd go into website design
would make sense to have a more general agreement, first paragraph? and then dividing tasks as a separate working document?
Nathalie:
still would like more clarity on how we would divide the money
could speak soon, e.g. in co-working, about legal and money things, maybe helpful to think through it more
Nick:
relationship with hosting provider - inside or outside scope?
technical bits on how to get money in, could invoice as freelance business that would be tax liable
Bruno:
how to divide money? internal for Karrot to decide, from FSS perspective one amount + things to provide, would be great to talk in co-working about that
hosting people seem up for doing some kind of solidarity hosting and costs
could draft a simple agreement based on first paragraph, and maybe can make a decision on that
will contact Wilhelm, propose to do work through Karrot
questions of why, how long, travel costs, maybe march?
Bruno:
would be great to welcome us all in March
hopefully can decide an approximate date that works, then can decide on some of the logistics
how long? over a weekend seems too short, maybe a longer period of time? depends on how we plan what we do whilst we here, but nice to include a weekend, especially if a workshop to have it on the weekend
could stay for a week in total, or even more? will hopefully have apartment still, if I still have it, have place for 4, or even 5 or 6, depending on getting mattresseseseses, not a big place, only one bedroom, bunk bed, single bed, sofabed - walk in closet that can fit a mattress even
Nathalie:
thats nice!
quite flexible in March, maybe not first weekend, sounds do-able
easter holidays is beginning of April, so maybe not that weekend
travelling doesnât seem that expensive, 60EUR each way
taking Bristol days as a referenceâŠ
good idea to do workshop with FSS/others? butze was also very interested
maybe a couple of Karrot focused days, arriving, planning, then the weekend as highlight, then some team/leisure time ⊠would be about a week, a few days before, then weekend, then a few days after
sleeping situation sounds plenty of room
Nick:
sounds nice, getting excited!
a week sounds a nice time, Siegen and Luxembourg trip were shorter
weekend at the center sounds good too
space sounds great
picking the date, travel planning and booking, the rest can come later
get costs covered for UK - Gothenburg
sovereign tech conversation, bring in that dialogue
hack-session for karrot, are people interested?
do write-up, article coming from it, speak about this approach of organising
Wednesday or Thursday regarding travel costs? Will figure that out later
quick feedback roles
Bruno sharing experience from his group
seems to be working well in my group
noticed someone has assigned a role to the wrong place
one person went to the approved role and wrote their name
would need to ask more ppl about their exp,
group specific roles:
place person,
store responsible persons
board roles
welcoming group
mediators, just starting that group now
Nathalie:
self-assign seems to work
in my group for the neighboorhood, ppl use the edit to put their name down, reminded me of how roles were used on Got
Nick:
seems good
also wonder how it will evolve
add a role, write on the wall, not so integrated
encounter prompts to get a role, or flag up roles that are up for grabs
karrot-team role, self-assign on our group and start makign exclusive activities for specific roles (i.e., karrot-team role)
automatic chats, getting notifications based on your roles
dave in robin, likes the roles, creating a budge of roles, got rid of the approved role
Jay:
cool to have it, gives me ideas, as Nathalie was saying, there are other things that could be standardised
dont want to bringing lots of ideas that I do not implement
when self-assign a role, click YES, looks like nothing happened, so you need to cancel
Vas
got karrot team role!
how to make it more integrated in the system
Bruno
attach group wide roles to place afterwards? no, archive role and create new
where do we stand with the strategy?
Nick:
would like to revive the energy in it, we had a nice base
normal weekly meeting so its maximun availability
very alive and important topic to progress
Bruno:
next step is to decide a date for the second sesssion
Vas:
very happy to proceed and try second session
Nathalie:
happy to proceed as well, really benefits from prep, if nick and bruno are motivated, meeting to prepare and then propose a day, happy to adjust if some prep is gonna take place
Jay:
enjoyed last session we had,
tuesday works generally for me
Nick:
next steps:
chat with Bruno
aim for a tuesday to do it
next week or the one after?
picking a date: Tuesday the 27th of Jan â proposed date, consented
Nathalie: overall board, familiar to me, workmode sociocracy for all using a lot, surprisingly structured for Karrot, 2 immediate reactions, duplicates, confusing that some things appear as both strategy and tactics, 2nd strong reaction, linkedin (NO, NO, NO), more aligned things, minimal outreach, start outreach to allies and the media we are using already. Would like to discuss it. More aligned ways before trying out more mainstream things?
Nick: good step foward overall, linesâŠhow do I get out of a box?, wondering how to relate it to the Karrot orbit, what is the relation? Material network (the orbit), this is more high level, agree with Nathalie, I am not touching Linkedin but no rejection if someone else, I imagine they donât use Linkedin, Mastodon 1500 followers already in lots of ppl on community organising, ppl seem to like posts we do there already, like the idea of small WG doing sth, the assesment still makes me wonder how we can make it not very reductive, we could do sth like how many activities? or sth else to weight (e.g., how many users signed up or develop some metrics of general activity, sending msgs). High level look quite clear, dont massively overlap. What we go forward as a next bit?
Bruno: Like the overview, broader categories make sense, look closer to rework the actions, one thing I âve missed prioritisation or logical sequence, âdo this first and then move to the otherâ, how do we pitch Karrot so we can reach out to different organisations. Mapping future organisations to contact.
Vas: working group can map org to contact. There is no prioritazation there. Assessment: get Nickâs approach, think about meaningful metrics. About LinkedIn: from makerspace experience, good to reach other organizations that could collaborate, that is one strategy, another is e-mails.
What we go forward as a next bit? Where we go from now? What do we do next? Where do we start with?
Nathalie:
left column, is this a good set of strategic aims? Work on first and get consent, work on WG, 2 are not very clear, âenhance opportunities withâŠâ not sure what its meant? What is meant with a collaborationn with academics? Expand community engagement? Develop intentional partnerships. Partnership is more than funding. Takeaway: More clarity on the two aims I pointed out.
Nick:
Had a way to understand these two aims: Outreach to new org and academics we dont have with already
Expand collaboration: groups already using Karrot, connections/partnerships with other orgs such as CoopCloud, outward and inward
Suite of strategic aims, form a little team, present it diffferently, Strategic aims as a suite, actions undertaken by WGs, reflection on which strategic aims the actions prioritise but might also feed others, sth a pitch deck document could be a resource to use with specific audiences (e.g., mini pitch website), connect with groups and ask them to âendorseâ karrot with a photo and a line about how Karrot important has been for their work, we are not 'shouting the storyâ the way it is. Tighten up the strategic aims (first) and find pplâs motivations (what do they want to do), not a huge number of things, Reflection period (what is the timescale to do reflections), strategy - refleciton - iteration and so on
Bruno:
Agree more or less with the above, how to go ahead, bring this up again.
Vasilis:
agree with what was shared
wish to come out with something I can go back to and refer to, act on something we have agreed on
works for me to work with a working group and a timeline as we did for nlnet
aims are subjective, as they are my summary, Tried to use open language
someone else to rework the board? and bring back to meeting
Nathalie: review strategic aims
take it out of the table, reform the strategy overview, bring some more fluidity
Nick: now or set it as a commitment to tweak the high level, put them into another visual form, borrowing on how we did NLNET, unify ways of working, co-working tomorrow
Bruno: agree on the above
Vasilis: re-work strategic aims and the visualization
on visualization (excalidraw), the bubbling ideas (actionable outcomes) connect to different strategic aims and can become a commitment as soon as one or more people take on it
weâve got the pictures inspired on our nlnet excalidraw to see who is doing what and what the status of the task is
6 strategic aims:
Grow Karrotâs user base
Create more collaborations with other projects, organisations, academics
Deepen engagement and participation with communities that use Karrot
Clarify roles, capacities, and responsibilities within the Karrot-team
Work towards long-term financial resilience
Develop effective communication, positioning, and story
self-assign commitments
Reactions
Bruno
really nice to see! gives me more clarity
exactly the kind of thing I wanted to have to keep track of work and place myself
also fine if tasks/ commitments are not that specific (yet), person whoâs doing it can break it down
is there something to add to it? or complete already?
Vas
happy with the messiness so far, could make another excalidraw without the notes (remove clutter)
left out measuring, assessment, try to integrate it
how do we move from there once a commitment is formed? should there be a consensus for each activity? e.g. linkedin question (whether we use it)
strategy meeting in Göteborg? do it all together
Nathalie
ideas not complete yet, nice if everyone could review it
we could consent today on strategic aims, people not here but very similar to what we did before
same question as Vas: would also look for consent on commitments
Consent round on strategic aims above
Nathalie: appreciate the little tweaks from the 1st iteration, last one about communication slightly unclear abit, but good enough. I consent
Vas: some dilemmas about the last one, but good enough. Consent overall. Second thoughts about roles capacities and responsibilities, but ok
Bruno: is it inclusive enough of the things we discussed so-far? not foodsaving communities? while not explicit feels included, Good enough therefore I consent
Next steps
notify other Karrot team members, we could ask for their consent too. We donât have a clear procedure, reaching out in this case is nice
in general we can make decisions in meetings with members missing, as this is more fundamental agree with reaching out
review and add bubbling ideas
continue assignments and commitments
one idea is to ask consent when one commits to one of the bubbling ideas
Vas would like full consent and can make a post on the group
still the question: how do we measure and assess progress?
Gbg trip
finalise dates (when ppl arrive - leave?)
Nathalie: Wednesday the arriving on the 18th - 25th
Vas: cheapest option on 20th, need to look for 18th, needs to coordinate with uni too, stay till 25th
what to bring?
sleeping bag? mat? Bruno can organise things, Vas doesnât need to bring anything!
check with Butze, Jay
make a post on the karrot gtb place
budgeting
do we use any Karrot money for the trip?
Bruno: suggested that before
Nathalie: positive for using Karrot money, give an estimate, around 60-80 Ă 2 = 160 E travelling. Seems doable
Vas: generally positive, need to look at the numbers and agree on that, like what is the cap. Would keep as a discussion point for next week, coming back with some amounts
plan activities
CSS workshop
a Karrot specific workshop (team + contributors)
Vas also collects data to enrich paper on CSS
Nathalie: positive to the idea, wants to engage with Vasâ work in one way or the other
Bruno: positive overall, nick also wanted to do sth about broadly related to tech
in 
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(self-deprecating criticism around sanctions)
not directly related to new featuresâŠ
on 
