Weekly call about Karrot development 2023

Date: 2023-10-17 BigBlueButton
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes:
Participants: Nick, Nathalie, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 1:03 from now
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nick will go on holiday at some point
    • next meeting:
      • tonight FOSC call
      • Wednesday co-working: tomorrow nathalie performance review
      • next Tuesday general: yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • reschedule meeting with neighbourhooddemocracy thing [Nick]
    • done, report later!

4. Discussion points

  • membership policy [D]
    • Draft Proposal defining Karrot membership - HedgeDoc
    • Reactions
      • small language change, seems good enough
      • happy reading it, incorpated things from the past
      • seemed really good
      • funny § symbols, legal? academic?
      • covers the things, some vagueness
      • 2.2/3.1 interesting about more specific team parts
      • curious if we’ll consent on each others membership now
      • how do we include tilmann here?
      • precusor to having circles
    • consent on the policy?
      • consent!
      • celebration!
    • consent on each others membership?
      • who becomes part of the team now? wait for vasilis? butze? tilmann?
      • either consent on the three of us present as members, or include people we know intend to be a member (vasilis), or include all potential people (tilmann, butze), or delay
      • Proposal: Members are Bruno, Nick, Nathalie and Vas. Reach out to Tilmann and Butze.
        • agreed!
      • Vas indicated wanting to be part of the team, need to hear from Tilmann and Butze
  • neighbourhood democracy call [R]
    • Nick had a call with them finally
    • a listing of a lot of projects
    • would be nice with they promote Karrot to their people
    • connection with the UK
    • person on the line was part of Barcelona en Comú, into municipalism (fearless cities) and trying to bring that to the UK to become part of this movement
    • Fearless Cities is coming to Sheffield in the UK in May, invited to so a session on Karrot
    • 5 aspects of it, will be on the website
      • bringing ppl together
      • deepening democracy
      • assets and buildings
      • common interests
      • socioecological transformation
    • they could promote Karrot by telling a story in their website
    • Link collection
    • first observsations on neighbourhood democracy website, were bland and depoliticised, but very happy to hear how it was
    • was following barcelona en comu, and fearless cities stuff before, not sure how it’s going now, motivated to dig some more into it
    • whole area of activism haven’t been involved, but foodsharing cities is perhaps part of this, perhaps interesting direction for foodsharing towns
    • could go in this direction to think about the bigger scale of democratizing cities/towns
    • the person I spoke to is Angelina Kussy (email footer links to https://weareopus.org/)
    • interests for follow up call:
      • municipalism, learning more, having an exchange about the context, e.g. in nordic/swedish context
      • where are overlaps, e.g. with foodsharing towns and municipalist/democratic stuff, foodsharing is quite big but also invisible and it’s own thing, so at least sharing about that
  • trying out new use of Karrot, parent coop, some reflections [E]
    • been thinking for some time to try introducing it to the parent co-op where Brunos kids go
    • had a meeting with working group (info working group, that does website, etc…), would have to bring to board later on
    • they currently use dropbox for collecting documents, policy, working groups, scheduling, excel sheets, a forwarding email address (that doesn’t work very well, so karrot might be tangible help there, problems are people not getting added to list, and sometimes emails don’t arrive), working groups using WhatsApp to co-ordinate meetings, used to have facebook group which is now quite inactive
    • when presenting karrot, mentioned principles/values (e.g. not using commercial tools, analogy of thinking about food consumption about kids, organic, sustainability, also need to think about technology, as WhatsApp was proposed for main tool). proposal to use karrot for messaging, including threading to keep more focused discussion, then other aspect for organising working days using activities (currently one person assigns families to days, and co-ordinates families switching), karrot does self-assigning so would need a different workflow in karrot, maybe could be useful feature to assign other people? or suggest?
    • also for organising working groups using places, could connect to teams/circles in the future
    • advantage using karrot, more insight into different working groups, transparency, and personal support from Bruno to support use of the tool, and lead to future development
    • one person is trying it out, resistance to something new, and to learn, came up already, recognise that, getting feedback about difficulties in adopting karrot is useful
    • the process of creating a new group is good to notice little roadblocks in the way
    • in the long run can see if it can be useful or not, will continue gently pushing it, could become a co-operation to gather feedback to lead to further development
    • one wish that was expressed: “it woudl be good to fewer number of digital tools” (e.g. get rid of dropbox), combining file storage and chatting, some tools you can’t get rid of
    • without turning karrot into nextcloud/dropbox/file storage… can we find a way to create some basic organisation of files… good enough for groups to work with, hard to join them into one tool right now
    • will continue exploring, and collecting feedback and hurdles, can share notes on the forum
    • feedback from Nathalie
      • really cool, like effort to bring to local place, and personal connected group with different purpose
      • a lot of learning there, very good feedback
      • curious if it gets decided to use it
      • like the feature ideas coming: suggesting someone for a slot
      • reminded me of thought about time when someone is inactive, e.g. not good to kick people out if they don’t log in for some time, so feature could be a disadvantage if people don’t log in a lot… different context to this loose thing
      • making more core settings more configurable
      • like direction to think about features :slight_smile:
    • feedback from Nick:
      • useful to get the understanding regardless they will use it
      • learning from these cases
      • thinking of the CSA model, one example, create a group and collect all the issues. An easy way of becoming involved
      • idea of suggesting someone for a slot is like an invite for an event
      • question of having a suite of tools: not usually something that people want
      • relates to NlNet question: what is the core of a tool, what is peripheral
      • we could explore how to connect with these tools
      • nextcloud talk on mobile works but a bit clunky
      • what is the significant advantage in using Karrot
  • we’re on the new public directory [R]
  • please test push notifications on dev.karrot.world
  • standing topic: organizational structure [E]
  • standing topic: check the board! [E]

End of October: review money amounts

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • follow up with butze about sociocracy for all masters students thing [Nathalie]
  • check with Butze to make his post about academic articles a wiki-post [when Butze is in the meeting]
  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • write a post on karrot to announce the members, invite tilmann/butze to apply, inform vasilis we automatically made him a member [Nick]
  • add butze as a contributor on the forum [Nick]
  • add agreement to Karrot group and forum [Nathalie]
  • review bio/description on people’s page [all]
  • follow up on tasks coming from the membership policy [Nathalie]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2023-10-24 BigBlueButton
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: Nick
Participants: Bruno, Nathalie, Butze, Nick

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 1:07
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Butze:
        • handed in proposal for regional foodsharing + food resource sharing (community gardens, cooking events, etc), TWO BAZILLION EUROS!!! (2m actually)
        • project is very nice, research through design
        • lots of applications, so probably not so much chance to get it
        • working with foodsharing ev to write a better proposal
    • next meeting:
      • Wednesday co-working: yes
      • next Tuesday general: yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick and Butze co-facilitating

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • follow up with butze about sociocracy for all masters students thing [Nathalie]
    • moved to Nathalie’s private to do list
  • check with Butze to make his post about academic articles a wiki-post [when Butze is in the meeting]
  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
    • not yet
  • write a post on karrot to announce the members, invite tilmann/butze to apply, inform vasilis we automatically made him a member [Nick]
    • done
  • add butze as a contributor on the forum [Nick]
    • done
  • add agreement to Karrot group and forum [Nathalie]
    • done
  • review bio/description on people’s page [all]
    • poked people
  • follow up on tasks coming from the membership policy [Nathalie]
    • not yet

4. Discussion points

  • review date for membership policy [D]

    • 1 year?
    • Question: 6 months review date and 1 year end date?
      • nah, we can just do 1 year review date, and policy stays active (no end date)
    • 1 year! done and updated
  • membership Butze? [E/D?]

    • would he like to become a member
    • feel’s like he’s still learning
    • would like to wait until he’s made a real contribution first
    • maybe in 2/3 months
    • doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to become a member :slight_smile:
    • still onboarding
    • reactions
      • Nick:
        • at outlandish had members, people intending to become members, and collaborators (not intending to become members)
        • quite like that idea
      • Nathalie:
        • makes sense, sounds reasonable
        • wondering why onboarding isn’t part of being a member?
        • makes the membership something bigger, would like it to be less big
        • experience in SOFA, relatively quick to be member, became welcomed as member in a circle, then onboarding later
      • Bruno:
        • makes sense
        • maybe more symbolic value, what does it really mean to be a member, and how should onboarding be
        • maybe becoming a member means having some commitment, or being involved, with enough knowledge, or skills, but not clearly defined
        • so fine to go with flow with subjectivities
        • happy he’s interested
      • Butze:
        • let’s reschedule to a month or 1.5 months
        • thinking about proposals where I see some kind of contribution for me
        • will take time
        • feel like I can contribute with proposals
        • need to wrap my head around it a bit more
        • think not far from now I’ll become one :slight_smile: :partying_face:
      • Nick:
        • would be happy to see federation between Karrot and FS and can support that
      • Butze:
        • student came in wanting to write masters thesis, with idea of a 3D printed sharing box, with a QR code, people can give photos/videos of themselves, tried to make a food context… too big for masters thesis
        • thought is communities collaborating and talking, good for physical exchange, and it faciliates exchange
        • what about a karrot box? people from one community could put in things, e.g. seeds, harvests, and you send it to brussels to see harvest of bath, would like to experiment, trying to get theme into it that it’s beyond just saving food, but also prosumption practises
      • Bruno:
        • have fun session planned for next co-working + 1, maybe suitable space for that
        • 1st November is date for that
  • karrot.foodsharing.lu [R]

    • have more groups as subgroups
      • localised activities
    • support self-hosting of Karrot
    • coop cloud, worked with Michal
    • Nick tried to set-up server themselves
    • coworking session with Daniel and Elisa to deploy Karrot, server set-up most complicated
    • run their own fork?
    • using postal server for incoming emails
    • possible modifications
      • joining automatically a default group?
      • doesn’t need a landing page
      • maybe something around logos
    • interesting to see how this would boost collaboration between groups/ platforms
    • invited Daniel to include feedback and idea to our forum
    • potentially interested in development
    • nice to hear!
    • plug-in infrastructure for Karrot? build in for own instances, implement in core project later
  • we’re on the new public directory [R]

    • New_ Public
    • a list of civic tech projects
    • would be interesting to have time to explore the projects
    • trying to make sense of them, they already have some filters on the page
    • nice start
    • Nathalie:
      • in sofa/fosc context, also nice research to look through, and find out about their governance
      • also hylo, who say they use sociocracy as governance method
      • very nice list
    • Butze:
      • like the list alot, sharing it already with people
      • reminds me of list that janina started 8 years ago with simliar projects to yunity
  • development

    • please test push notifications on dev.karrot.world
      • bruno plans to test tomorrow during co-working
    • please feedback on no-shows
      • Allow to record no-shows during feedback process - #4 by nicksellen
      • will wait for feedback
      • Bruno:
        • saw it and liked it, will wait for Kranti
        • question: won’t affect history?
      • Nathalie:
        • saw it and liked it
        • it’s just sharing information, could be conflicting, but that’s not the point, focus on displaying information
      • open questions:
        • how should it show activity history number, show done and no show?
        • how should it show up in the history?
  • standing topic: check the board! [E]

    • pick more!
    • Ready for Development | Other
    • Nomination
    • Bruno
      • Possibility to edit place statuses of cooperation | Navigating upcoming activities (more user feedback)
    • Nick
      • Possibility to edit place statuses of cooperation | Navigating upcoming activities (more user feedback)
    • Nathalie
        • | Navigating upcoming activities (more user feedback)
    • Butze
      • Wrong orientation of pictures | Change Username
    • Proposal: Next up
      • Fix push notification: is ongoing [Nick + testing]
      • Wrong orientation of pictures : test it [Bruno]
      • Navigating upcoming activities (more user feedback) [Bruno first, Nick later]
      • Possibility to edit place statuses of cooperation [Nick]
    • consent
  • meta-analysis of diverse use cases of Karrot to guide future development [E]

  • https://sharedfutures.space [R]

  • forum spam [E]

  • standing topic: organizational structure [E]

End of October: review money amounts

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • add butze as a contributor on the forum [Nick]
  • review bio/description on people’s page [all]
  • follow up on tasks coming from the membership policy [Nathalie]
  • please test push notifications on dev.karrot.world [all]
  • add no-show questions to forum post for prompting [Nick]
  • test if pictures are uploading correctly wit the right orientation [Bruno]
  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2023-10-31 https://meet.friprogramvarusyndikatet.se/karrot
Facilitator: Butze, Nick
Minutes:
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Butze

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 1h15
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
      • Nick: going on a trip next week, may or may not be around, let’s see
      • Bruno: started prep work on creating foodsharing sweden :partying_face: :croissant::baguette_bread::bread::flatbread::bagel:
      • Butze: going to meet Valentin Thurn soon, starting to network
    • next meeting:
      • tonight: sofa/fosc call scheduled: need to check with Nathalie if we try and postpone, or what?
      • Wednesday co-working: fun session co-working! nick, bruno
      • next Tuesday general: yes!
    • pick facilitator for next week: Butze (with support)

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • add butze as a contributor on the forum [Nick]
    • done!
  • review bio/description on people’s page [all]
    • butze did it :partying_face:
    • not others :disappointed_relieved:
  • follow up on tasks coming from the membership policy [Nathalie]
    • I think this was done?
  • please test push notifications on dev.karrot.world [all]
    • bruno was testing, and generally :+1:
    • a query as to which things cause a push notification
    • bruno will continue thinking about which things could
    • could also explore more prominent banner to prompt to enable notifications
  • add no-show questions to forum post for prompting [Nick]
    • asked kranti about it
  • test if pictures are uploading correctly with the right orientation [Bruno]
    • bruno did it, no issues found :pray:
  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
    • not yet

4. Discussion points

  • meta-analysis of diverse use cases of Karrot to guide future development [E]
    • present idea, and explore first thoughts
    • background:
      • presenting karrot to be used at parents co-op
      • checking specific use case, exploring what we do, which digital tools we use, what we need, how could karrot be useful, what is missing
    • meta part: what can we abstract from that that would be common to other groups doing self-organising that might have grassroots vibe, might be well structured but without professional paid organisation structure
    • helps us get a bit clearer on karrots concept, currently half clear in our heads… would be extremely useful to do that, lead towards a definition of what kind of groups karrot is for, based on which concept
    • community building, self organising, what do those things mean, start looking at needs, how are groups using digital tools, what are their needs, what does karrot offer now, what could it offer… start gathering information more systematically
    • e.g. communication needs (quick? fast?), onboarding… documentation system, like a cloud drive thing… but for what
    • not that karrot would provide everything, but have a clear sense, what is the actual value we can add on a day to day basis that is not being provided by any other tools
    • and how it can/might interface/interoperate with other tools, how much to reinvent wheel, or not… how might we create something new? how much can we copy?
    • looking for a structure/basis to start that journey
    • could start with notes from this specific case, could also go back to when we adapted karrot to bike kitchen (have videos from user testing)
    • Butze:
      • find this very interesting, prompted task to get this into some kind of thesis structure, could be a task for a student, who can look into it for 3 months, interview us, users
      • have a short manual in mind, could give a student the task to develop such a manual, and get into feedback loops with us
      • see it as good value and very important
      • could really sharpen karrot foci (different focuses)
      • last days I’ve been on karrot, saw link to welcome page, and first word noticed as “community building”, relates to recent papers, discourse is that “community building needs personal encounters”
      • interested to see how we see karrot and community building together, how karrot supports community building
      • a lot of technology building does not focus on this
      • worthwhile and useful for a student
    • Nick:
      • also see this as really valuable
      • from wider FOSS community a lot of developer centric around tools (dev can be self-empowered)
      • when ou are not a dev, you have to work with a whole team (which is a lot more complicated
        → gab of tools, that are suitable
      • Karrot has a more grounded approach (devs and team blend)
      • nobody gives a shit about a tool… people want to do actions, want to connect with other people (rather than explore tools)
      • there are more projects that Nick knows, that have a similar interest (we can do it together)
      • Nick suggests connecting with the author of Anarchist Cybernetics
      • Adam Greenfeld is interesting
    • Bruno:
      • happy to have such a positive response :partying_face:
      • feel enthusiastic about doing something, but unclear how it would looks like, could be bigger or smaller, so many possible scopes
      • could be more karrot focused, or more widely concept focused with broader collaboration, maybe could be both, could do our own work, and dialogue with other partners and collaborators, building knowledge together about community organising and digital tools
      • also have our own focused work on karrot, talking about more specific karrot features
      • not sure about next steps
      • would initially put some notes down on the forum with experiences with the parents co-op
      • would be happy for butze to go ahead and forumulate something for masters students to do
      • would be useful to look back at the experience we had with katies masters students
      • one concern, it would be become too instrumental, if from the students perspective, which is kind of default mode, could be something of interest to the student, but at some point they just need to get something done to pass the exam, so potential it’s just put in a box rather than coming from heart/curiosity, but ok that’s how institutions often frame things, if we’re lucky maybe not, but no harm either way
      • would be nice to reflect more on that experience and see how it could involve a student in a way they find it fun and experience to point and find it interesting
      • totally go ahead butze
      • could continue exploring now, or leave it as it is?
    • Butze:
      • got a lot of insights now, will refine what I’ve written in masters thesis document already
      • on point of whether student does it from heart: question of how we integrate the person, as karrot and supervisor, to be friendly to them, invite them to give updates in weekly call, will advertise as “who is interested in FOSS projects”, don’t want to focus on students who just want to get their points
      • bring the refined version back to meeting next week
    • Nick:
      • people in FOSS spaces collaborate in terms of report and case studies…?
      • no tangible outcome for now but would like to participate in discussions
  • https://sharedfutures.space [R]
    • helps communities to decide there tools
    • first: agreement on a mission
    • then 3 stages
    • It is connected to academia: Peter Bloom (Nick had a call with him, tlaked about vision - explored a lot of similarities)
    • a lot of overlap with karrot.world
    • sharedfurtures has funding, but no users
    • Nick see potential for collaboration: similar goals - Nick working on both of them. potential is to get better platforms than if projects work alone.
    • Chellange: different working models
    • Nick presented a document with thoughts to Animorph
    • Nick wonders in which role he talks to Peter Bloom
    • Bruno:
      • again the funny thing happening of duplicate work whilst pursing same goal, on different paths
      • funny having one developer in common, working in parallel, given that, totally worth seeing where we could collaborate, does it make sense, what is different
      • to achieve best outcome as society, doesn’t mean everybody should work together and co-ordinate, not really feasible, should strive for more of that though, capitalist mindset is to pursue our own goals and projects, e.g. tech for good and social projects, even though it’s not about making money, we’re still in the mindset of “my/our thing” we’re doing, should be able to try and join forces more and work together
      • sometimes there will be differences though, and worthwhile trying to pursue same goal/visions through different paths
      • for shared futures, would be nice to have a clear idea of what kind of features it’s trying to offer, and based on what kind of theory, and how is that different to karrot, how would they complement each other, which kind of ecosystem is it in trying to bring value to people doing self-organised community work
      • maybe nick can guide us on how to explore it, can we log in? create a group? somethingh hands on to get a clear picture of what it offers
      • happy to hear the vision/theory, and how a digital tool can faciliate community organising
    • Butze:
      • started to explore the website, see the general vision to bring people to collaborate
      • looking at academic profile of Peter, would like to talk to him if nick is interested to pursue it further and talk about HCI-related stuff
      • sent the link to co-worker who is interested and patient about exploring websites
      • happy to be an academic link
      • very nice thing that main developer (of karrot) is keen to work with others
  • tech updates
    • push notifications [R]
      • bruno had tested and we talked abouit it. will get into production
    • noshows [R]
      • nick talked to kranti, who said thats exactl what Nick should do. Nick will develope it
    • selfhosting [R]
      • Nick worked with Daniel. Had to do some things. It is working well.
    • place statuses [R]
      • Nick did some fundamential work.
    • plugins
      • it is a nice idea. got some good feedback. Aim is to get the front end thing build and put it into production. We could have some minor plugin on our own instance and see how it works.
    • video calls :slight_smile:
      • technolog exploration. could we integrade something like BBB? Nick went Karrot and foodshasringon a journey to explore diffent tool.
  • Butze talked with Stefan K. [R]
    • board member of foodsharing e.v. one of the leading figures of foodsharing academy
    • nick and I met him at international foodsharing gathering this summer
    • contacted him to see if he’s interested to work on a proposal together, current submitted thing he didn’t have time to work on it
    • see a lot of overlap with my work, main goal is community building
    • we won’t do a proposal in the next 2-3 weeks, longer term project, looking into EU funding, going to start a first draft now with ideas
    • not just doing a foodsharing proposal, but combining with karrot, shared with himhe’s joining calls
    • stefan said he’d be really interested to know what is happening in karrot, but no idea where to look, shared we have the minutes, but didn’t know how to link him there
    • meeting in maastrict in december: how can maastrict get into the foodsaving/foodsharing circles, going to attend, and meet him, see what is happening there, we met some people in maastrict from international academy
    • when I have first draft will share with you (karrot), needs half a year to get a good proposal, and lots of stakeholders together
    • Bruno:
      • clearer idea of what the funding/project would be? get together foodsharing, karrot, community building? kind of open still, or is it more specifically worked on yet with a direction
      • nice and interesting to hear Stefan is interested about karrot, but cannot find anything, maybe good feedback make it easier for people to find information on the background, and what is happening
      • maybe they end up on landing page, but how would they find out behind the scenes
      • wondering if there was a maastrict group that used karrot?
      • also was thinking about the foodsharing france thing, bruno is looking at a foodsharing sweden platform based on karrot, and seeing in france by default they are going with foodsharing platform, potential to collaborate?
    • Nick:
      • there has been controvercities between karrot and foodshring (karrot started to be a tool that distinguishes from foodsharing). would be very good to bring them orginazationally together
      • Foodsharing Academie seems like a good place to get bother more connected
      • building tech infrastracture to connect both would be great!
      • EU supports fediverse
  • Master-Thesis document [R]
    • made a draft, encourage you to look: FOSS_thesis.docx - Google Docs
      • meta review
      • stuff to programme where nick can look
      • something about sociocracy where nathalie could look at it
    • doesn’t have to be a big text, but give the student who reads it, a kind of feel of what is there to explore, always need to talk to student to explain further
    • doesn’t have to be academic or good text, can be a brain storm/thoughts
    • timelimit: no timelimit, but would be great in the next two weeks to get something
    • no need to make it proper, can splurge it out somewhere :slight_smile:

Next meeting:

  • fellowship thing [R]
  • forum spam [E]
  • standing topic: organizational structure [E]
  • standing topic: check the board! [E]
  • review money amounts [E/D?]

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • write on forum about push notifications (bell? new UI to activate?) [Bruno]
  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • Butze refines the Master-Thesis document regarding meta-analysis of diverse use cases of Karrot to guide future development (butze)

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2023-11-07
Facilitator: Butze, with support from Bruno
Minutes: Butze/Bruno
Participants: Butze, Bruno

  1. Opening

    10 min Check in
    5 min ADMIN
    attendance (write down participants)
    duration: 40 minutes
    information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    next meeting:
    Wednesday co-working: Bruno will be there
    next Tuesday general: Butze, Bruno will be there
    pick facilitator for next week:

  2. Consent to agenda

    2 min

  3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

    work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
    write on forum about push notifications (bell? new UI to activate?) [Bruno]
    feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
    write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
    Butze refines the Master-Thesis document regarding meta-analysis of diverse use cases of Karrot to guide future development [butze]

  4. Discussion points

    Foodsharing Sweden
    new law: shops/supermarkets have to do proper recycling
    good opportunity for activists
    creat a structure of Foodsharing Sweden
    idea: platform that has 3 pillars (similar to foodsharing.de): 1. Networking/Outreach/Connecting to new groups // 2. Digital platform, set up own karrot instance. // 3. Connect to bigger names/companies to establish national wide cooperations
    Bruno had a call with students from a city called Jönköping. There is a foundational document (1-pager), where Bruno outlined the vision. Please have a look, comment and add.
    there are not a lot of structured foodsharing groups in Sweden yet (Gothenburg is like the biggest and best organized… Gothenburg gets conntacted quite often and is asked for help - G. then shares their experience; digital platform could make this easier + the platfrom gives some identity)
    good opportunity to learn from Foodsharing Germany
    communities currently dont learn from each other
    pragmatic reasons: a lot of effort locally already
    a very limited number of people doing the core organizing, and others are “free-riding”
    people already involved in many takss (local responcibilities) do not have the time for extra tasks
    important to focus on it right away at the very start. Hard to do it later
    structures can be implemented at the start of Foodsharing Sweden. Idea of a rule: every district needs a connection/networking ambassador
    this relates to the whole CSA-discussion and fair contributions-distribution
    fair contribution is also a big topic on Foodsharing (combining e.g. cleaning the FairTeiler and picking up at ‘good stores’ is discussed among developers)
    people who take on the hard tasks (a lotof tasks) don’t feel appreciated and supported (two devs just left)
    how do these structures relate or apply to local foodsharing groups?
    a discussion of cherry-picking rule connected to people doing tasks
    a lot of invisible/anonymous work is done to build up and maintain the structure

Next meeting

fellowship thing [R]
    https://www.churchillfellowship.org/become-a-fellow/our-current-programmes/tech-for-all/
forum spam [E]
standing topic: organizational structure [E]
standing topic: check the board! [E]
review money amounts [E/D?]
  1. Actions/Outcomes

    work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
    write on forum about push notifications (bell? new UI to activate?) [Bruno]
    feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
    write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
    Butze refines the Master-Thesis document regarding meta-analysis of diverse use cases of Karrot to guide future development [butze]
    Butze is looking at the 1-pager regarding Foodsharing Sweden [Butze]

  2. Closing Ceremony

    10 min
    checkout

Date: 2023-11-14 BigBlueButton
Facilitator: Vas
Minutes: all
Participants:Bruno, Vas, Nick, Philip

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: until 11 CET
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting:
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • work on forum post comparing/contrasting foodsharing/karrot [Nathalie]
  • write on forum about push notifications (bell? new UI to activate?) [Bruno]
  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • Butze refines the Master-Thesis document regarding meta-analysis of diverse use cases of Karrot to guide future development [Butze]
    • refined it, and colleagues wrote something
    • incorporated ideas from discussion about meta analysis of Karrot
    • waiting for feedback from nick, nathalie, and/or vas
    • FOSS_thesis.docx - Google Docs
    • nick will try and read through and write something, also suggests we could do it as group activity [Nick]
  • Butze is looking at the 1-pager regarding Foodsharing Sweden [Butze]
    • Butze commented some things in the 1-pager
    • CryptPad
    • invite to ask any follow up questions

4. Discussion points

  • nlnet thing

    • it looks like we get funding again - 17,5k
    • final stage is the formality: usually it goes through. make sure we are not a fraugelent organisation
    • we have to write the description of Karrot
    • all that’s left is to incorporate the comments or not and Nick has to send or not
    • HedgeDoc - Collaborative markdown notes
    • try and get fiscal host or own bank account + legal entity
  • fellowship thing [R]

  • forum spam [E]

    • various spam comes through, settings in email thing, marked as spam
    • now we have less but do we handle messages from ppl now?
    • not sure
    • Nick, Natalie, Butzer look into emails and delete spam
    • current setup is ok-ish. globe icon can translate
    • alternative would be moving away from handling emails
    • set up a fwd adress, goes to our personal adresses
    • no need for an action atm?
    • keep deleting spam, do our spam deed
  • feature requests

    • kranti
    • daniel
      • a few, e.g.:
        • Send chat message to more than one person
          • for transparency could make the group aware there is a private group chat (not saying it’s a good idea, just a thought)
          • people will make private chats if they want it, if not in karrot, somewhere else
          • leads into concept of sub groups
          • design sprint for this?
        • motivated adding new stuff, commenting things
        • microdiscussions on tasks in the meetings
        • natural flow
          • replying to kranti, relates to some existing topics
          • how to keep it organised
          • assessing how important things are, ideally including the people who reports it, in a meeting/call to get more feedback
        • ongoing work!
          • future description of the tasks of the karrot team: curation of input and feedback from the community, turning it into a coherant whole
          • how do we connect all the stuff to the board, trying to remove noise of having content spread all over the place, can have links to discussions, sketches, history
  • undergrad student “contribute to open source”

    • Push message with activity in title should respect user timezone · Issue #2682 · karrot-dev/karrot-frontend · GitHub

    • we use to get a flood of ppl at some part of the year, undergrads who have to do their assignment,

    • hard to manage

    • havent seen any for a while…but some came in but I dont want to be grumpy.

    • I d like a solution so I dont have to go through the ‘toil’ of explaining what is going on and how to do and blahblah

    • give butzer details and they talk to them

    • spent some time with us in the meetings and then maybe engage

    • reminds me of CSA, people coming to weed tomatoes and weed the tomato plants themselves

      • reminds me of butze talking about tomatos when I visited in 2020 social.coop
    • like idea, ifyou want to contribute, have to join meetings, not just seeing what is on github, actually meeting with people running krarot, should be part of assignment, can report back to uni that’s the crack, have to understand some of the culture and say hi

    • in co-working could write a short guideline, e.g.:

    • these fleshed out, a link to the profile and email?

    • how to increase sense of responsiblity, and minimise noise and transactional costs (explaining things)

Next time:

  • standing topic: organizational structure [E]
  • standing topic: check the board! [E]
  • review money amounts [E/D?]
    • before end of this month!
  • should we get a fiscal host or own bank account / legal entity

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
  • reply to Kranti [bruno]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • try and read through and write something, also suggests we could do it as group activity [Nick]
  • send HedgeDoc - Collaborative markdown notes [Nick]
  • if on forum, delete a bit of spam, shares the load [all]
  • how to onboard students, develop guidelines [all, maybe in the co-working]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2023-11-21 BigBlueButton
Facilitator: Nick
Minutes: all
Participants: Nick, Vas, Butze, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: until 11 Central Europe
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting:
      • co-working tomorrow: Nick, Vas, Bruno
    • pick facilitator for next week: Bruno

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
    • asked in group, hard to get feedback!
  • reply to Kranti [bruno]
    • done, on forum and group
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • try and read through and write something, also suggests we could do it as group activity [Nick]
    • for co-working tomorrow
  • send https://pad.kanthaus.online/karrot-nlnet-summary?edit [Nick]
  • if on forum, delete a bit of spam, shares the load [all]
  • how to onboard students, develop guidelines [all, maybe in the co-working]
    • for co-working tomorrow

4. Discussion points

  • database modification for luxembourg [R]

  • appyling for the post-doc and what I can do/bring in Karrot [R,E]

    • Portail Emploi CNRS - Offre d'emploi - Postdoctoral researcher on digital commons M/W
    • due in 27th nov
    • thinking to send an application, negotiating location (as it’s in Paris)
    • asked for a list of case studies, they sent a list of countries
      • france, spain, luxembourg, germany
    • not clear what they define as digital commons, things like GIMP, or like karrot (that supports physical commons)
    • asks for a cover letter
    • one stream could be, digital commons when it comes to small scale agriculture
    • another could be, community support software + interopability with karrot, etc…
    • how could funding also be shared not just for the researcher, but also for the project(s)
    • not 100% sure to apply
    • either go with their agenda, fit into their thing, other way is to bring in more own ideas, ideas from agriculture + karrot
    • if with karrot
      • community supported software model + pilot it
      • connect with other projects and look into interoperability protocols
    • if you have any ideas, and needs/wants within karrot, can see about negotiating ite
    • butze:
      • looks interesting position
      • seems rather undefined
      • would give it a shot, and see how much you can put in of your ideas/agenda
      • curious, as EU funded, expects it shouldn’t be just in paris (vas clarified the countries)
      • did some research on EU funding recently, found some older calls connected to food waste, but this isn’t part of it
      • seems part of LIFE program, can send links
    • bruno:
      • sounds a very good opportunity
      • don’t know specifically what to suggest, regarding angle for karrot, brought up good topics already
      • maybe need to check if you have negoating power or not, if you have can connect with agriculture/karrot, otherwise have to be positive going with what they have to offer
      • not clear what case studies are yet
    • nick:
      • Karrot has already implicit connectins to commons,so framing within a commons
      • ask on my fediverse account for suggestions (eu tech, funding)
      • spend time in the co-working to go through it and fire of some ideas more specifically which might alight best
      • its within the NGI. Having got NLET net funding again looks favorably
      • we metioned commons in our last application. Its a point of strenth
    • vas:
      • so much to neogiate, won’t have thesis submitted by the start time
      • so fuck it, can submit whatever :slight_smile:
  • collaboration on papers/works etc. [E]

    • Butze:
      • surprised at vas handing in a paper without butze knowing
      • in academic world, papers are main currency, for funding/careers, and making a point that people are collaborating, so important to share co-authorship
      • for CHI paper, leonie is main author, asked vas to provide feedback near the end
      • desire to establish practise to collaborate on papers
      • 2 days notice was very short time
      • also respect if somebody wants to be single author
    • vas:
      • paper was on backburner
      • wrote last year, submitted to CSCW, rejected, reworking it this year
      • 3 days ago, received message from journal, and do you have something to submit
      • supervisor, pushed to submit it as needed extra paper for phd
      • didn’t think to reach out, had to work and submit
    • butze:
      • paper was from a year ago
    • vas:
      • came out of nowhere
      • no a personal thing
    • bruno:
      • understanding is, vasilis submitted a paper recently, announced it was submitted, was last minute, … had submitted a year ago, then got to know about a call, and pressure to submit for phd, so sent it in
      • announced it today, submitted last night
      • understand butzes frustration
      • see the conundrum
    • nick:
    • butze:
      • not much to add, feel disappointed, understand some of the reasoning, but still don’t understand why wasn’t communicated 4-5 weeks ago (asking for some feedback - similar how I did with the CHI paper we submitted, on which I put Vas as a co-Author for his feedback), unsure about intention for working together on karrot papers
    • vas:
      • a practical decision
      • get the point, could have shared it when having wrote it, get it
      • not an intention showing I don’t want to collaborate, not at all
      • if you personally, don’t find it ethic within research community, can hear that and respect it
      • can imagine lots of other people I didn’t share it with, can’t share it with all the people at short notice
    • bruno:
      • positive, or solution oriented solution…
      • vas seems more in defensive mode, trying to explain why
      • heard disappoint from butze, and the question of whether vas would like to collaborate or not
      • heard vas say he would like to collaborate, making it clear there is an intention to collaborate under the practical decision
    • vas:
      • not here to compete, would like to collaborate
      • offer to speak in private with butze, also happy to have the space in karrot
    • butze:
      • fine to carry on the meeting now
    • vasilis:
      • not sure
      • happy to chat with butze if he’s up for it, even staying after call, or whenever
    • bruno:
      • happy to move on
    • nick:
      • offer to join a call with both of you
    • butze:
      • we can talk later about
    • they stay on the call after this one
  • socioracy for all fosc call…

  • tech/task updates

    • deployment this week [R]
      • no-shows \o/
      • web push
      • session extensions
    • ongoing: place statuses
    • design? navigating upcoming activities
      • try to put this higher up todo list to get more feedback
      • good way is to try and find a person directly and get feedback
      • forum post Navigating upcoming activities
  • review money amounts [E/D?]

    • before end of this month!
    • bruno: 200, like to continue
    • vas: 230, good
    • nick: … continue next time
  • standing topic: organizational structure [E]

  • standing topic: check the board! [E]

  • should we get a fiscal host or own bank account / legal entity

  • EU-funding (butze)

Next time:

  • feedback Foodsaving Lund [R,E]
    • go deeper and have discussion

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
    • update forum post with screenshotsd
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • try and read through and write something, also suggests we could do it as group activity [Nick]
    • for co-working tomorrow
  • how to onboard students, develop guidelines [all, maybe in the co-working]
  • go through the post-doc doc and suggest karrot-related things [Nick, and/or others in co-working]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout

Date: 2023-11-28 BigBlueButton
Facilitator: Bruno
Minutes: all
Participants: Nick, Bruno

1. Opening

  • 10 min Check in
  • 5 min ADMIN
    • attendance (write down participants)
    • duration: 1h30
    • information: any (non-karrot) announcements? unavailabilities?
    • next meeting:
      • next tuesday: yes
      • coworking: yes
    • pick facilitator for next week: Nick

2. Consent to agenda

  • 2 min

3. Review last week’s Actions/Outcomes

  • feedback on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno]
    • update forum post with screenshots
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • try and read Butze’s doc through and write something, also suggests we could do it as group activity [Nick]
    • for co-working tomorrow
  • how to onboard students, develop guidelines [all, maybe in the co-working]
  • go through the post-doc doc and suggest karrot-related things [Nick, and/or others in co-working]

4. Discussion points

  • feedback Foodsaving Lund [R,E]

    • go deeper and have discussion
    • came from inviting them to foodsharing sweden, they were positive to this concept
    • multiple roles for bruno, part of solikyl, foodsharing sweden, and karrot
    • chatted with anna marie, we previously chatted with her (nick/vas prob)
    • positive feedback about the new feedback display :partying_face: (giving a better idea for their stats to see who did’nt give feedback, or dismissed it)
    • suggestion: pin message on top, to show important announcements. thinking about the rules of the group.
      • why not use agreements? they were not really aware of it.
      • ok… but how will people find out about the agreements…
        • can do follow up to see how it can be useful
        • option to pin agreement?
        • always pin all the agreements?
        • add feature to require consent to agreement, and they have to agree
        • show who has agreed/consented
          • could use the smiley/sad faces for it
        • pin feature could be used for many things, activities, etc.
          • nick also imagined personal “bookmark” feature, and “pin” would be kind of like the group-level version of it (and karrot is group focused, so group-level stuff makes sense there)
        • applying/joining group is another moment for consenting to agreements
        • need to be more integrated into flows of karrot, not just an item in the sidenav, otherwise they go unnoticed
          • same as offers
          • feedback is good example of something more integrated into other features of karrot
    • suggestion: give feedback as emoji reaction
    • membership review, what to do when people break rules
      • shared we will be working on software sanctions, they’d like to be part of that discussion
      • they have a 30 day ban if somebody is not following rules, ban from participation in the group, mostly focused on pickups, if they don’t show up to a pickup, arrive late 3 times, they get the ban
      • they didn’t know about the no-show feature
        • maybe people don’t want to be the snitch
        • if it’s related to a sanction it’s a bigger deal…
        • idea to allow groups to add custom bits of text in different places in the UI could help make things clear in the context of the group
      • sanctions feature would be welcome
      • if they don’t respect the ban, they use the membership review process
        • so far people have respected it
      • remember to invite them!
    • relating to admin roles, etc.
      • one person in the group, too bossy, claiming to be founder, only person that got trust karrots
      • trust carrot feature “too democratic”
      • others took over control of “admin” account from the person
      • suggestion: higher threshold, e.g. 5 … or remove it completely
      • the fact that we have the trust system, allowed power to transfer
      • creating an “admin” account, sort of created this situation to centralize power
      • usually a fear of distributing power
      • creating accountability mechanisms to stop people who just want to take power for the sake of it
      • what are the methods and tricks to distribute power?
      • karrot has principles of non/less hierarchy, but fewer mechanisms to encourage those practises
      • limitations of how much can be done via software, still based in the group culture
    • 2/3 of those things from lund are in our nlnet funding, so validates those things :slight_smile:
  • nlnet next steps [R/E]

    • they sent a doc that we should read, start the process to get the MoU
    • they’ve got welcome calls to the projects this time, one on 27th and 29th
      • “we will have the two welcome meetups next week instead of last month - on Monday November 27th at 9:30 AM CET and Wednesday November 29th at 15:30 CET to be precise” / “Hope you are able to attend one of the sessions, please let us know in time!”
    • need to go through document, and work out what we do
  • shared futures / karrot chat next week

    • Nick presented a doc to Animorph and they were quite enthusiastic
    • next week it will be presented at a call
    • they’ve had a rocky path so there’s a concern this might contaminate Karrot work
    • one idea would be to rewrite shared feature into Karrot
      • keep its design and use it as a plugin
    • a whole bunch of work, but a whole bunch of features that come for free
    • how to work together? power/decision structures…
  • should we get a fiscal host or own bank account / legal entity

    • right time to do it, because of NlNet funding and Nick not holding all the money on personal account
    • either a fiscal host or own legal entity
    • also think it’s time
    • haven’t explored it so much, had a look at https://techcultivation.org
      • wasn’t clear how pricing works there
      • up for contacting them
    • also looking at opencollective
    • and weigh up having own legal entity, which requires picking a country…
    • work and investigations to do :slight_smile:
  • review money amounts [E/D?]

    • before end of this month!
    • bruno: 200, like to continue
    • vas: 230, good
    • nick: … continue next time
  • EU-funding (butze)

  • standing topic: organizational structure [E]

  • standing topic: check the board! [E]

5. Actions/Outcomes

  • continue work on navigating upcoming activities [Bruno, Nick]
  • write feedback and reflections on suggesting Karrot to parents coop [Bruno]
  • try and read Butze’s doc through and write something, also suggests we could do it as group activity [Nick]
    • for co-working tomorrow
  • go through the post-doc doc and suggest karrot-related things [Nick, and/or others in co-working]
  • read NlNet stuff [all]

6. Closing Ceremony

  • 10 min
  • checkout