Governance Meeting Notes

Date: January 21st, 2021
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Vasileios, Katie


  • check in

    • some chat about how to show alternatives to project organising:
      • traditional charity kind of model: find some funding/sponsors, employ some people, manage volunteers for the rest
      • new model: more community orientated structure, no big division between “volunteers” and “staff”
  • Examples of governance in groups (Discussion)

    • insights from Copenhagen’s code of conduct and ethics
      • two documents, code of conduct which refers to code of ethics
      • those two are the ones you have the read before you can participate
      • they also have many more, but a bit overwhelming!
      • the amount of structure/rigidity in the docs is due to the scale of them
      • they have a board structure, with 6 different roles
        • volunteer management
        • community
        • etc
      • re-election of roles every 6 months
      • organised quite rigidly in that model
      • they do like the community vibe, but maybe struggle with making it happen
      • can really feel like work, especially with the larger events
      • 600-700 hundred members, 200-250 active volunteers
      • at big events, have market collections in the van (2-3 people), 6 people to do bakery collections, setup shift (10-12 people), … and other roles with 12 people or so
      • smaller events also
      • get a lot of students and international students, can have more volunteers than shifts, people compete for them
      • but other periods they’re missing volunteers
      • food inspector made it so random people can’t contribute food
      • dissident group on karrot?
        • Karrot
        • the people are also in foodsharing copenhagen
        • it works as a side project
        • some food comes from the events to go in the fridge
        • more of a community model (anyone can bring food, unlike in foodsharing copehagen)
      • foodsharing copenhagen use 3 different cultural spaces for events, and book the space
      • they keep some equipment in the spaces, but don’t use the space outside the events
      • foodsharing stockholm have a fridge that they can use to put in food to preserve it for longer
      • question whether foodsharing stockholm have a wider political/social agenda? or just food waste = bad
        • key volunteers see themselves as activists, focused on food waste
        • struggle with some of the social/practical issues
        • practical work of running events takes over, so maybe less time to do wider political/social work
        • did hold a public food waste dinner to raise awareness of food waste
        • wider topics are a goal, but hard to fit in
        • a lot of work dealing with conflicts in the group (racism, who takes what, blocking people joining)
        • lead to some other projects created, e.g. foodsharing ? (not sure of the name)
        • dealing with the size of the group has maybe taken away from some of the initial values
      • the board decided on the agreements, any idea for which process is used to challenge/manage the rules?
        • e.g. if you wanted to challenge rule number 9 (about not bringing your children to a shift)
        • they have meetings where it can be discussed
        • do a majority vote to approve stuff, and have a chair to co-ordinate things
        • some of the rules can make it feel like work, and they have training programme, etc.
        • events are a lot of work due to the scale, so require a tight operation!
        • some people go to get food, and the work is the “payment”
        • hard to embrace community structure AND get the work done
      • maybe to run as an actual community would require at least a majority of people that share a similar goal
      • have been a lot of issues about people who take too much food, so addressed by having more specific rules, and volunteers to try and keep people to it
        • some similar conflicts in Gothenburg too
          • the place that has the most food has the most conflicts and issues (e.g. hiding food)
        • in stockholm due to covid they’ve been trying to avoid crowding
          • some people trying to keep more food for themselves, and keep it more quiet
          • “it’s free I’ll take whatever I can carry”, hard to get people to take a wider mindset about it (thinking about the other people)
          • at least the volunteers should have a value-driven purpose, maybe less important for attendees
      • question is scale is very interesting/relevant to karrot
        • how much can a group scale using karrot?
        • how do the governance features fit into this
      • the two documents fit into the model of document with title + a lot of numbered points
      • the code of ethics document seems to fit the “value tags” ideas quite a lot
        • each point is talking about the wider value that the point is for
      • including the context of the points is maybe very useful
        • e.g. seeing why rules that sound harsh are there (there is usually a reason)
    • Noisebridge model of do-ocracy and consensus
      • Community Standards - Noisebridge
      • conflict between do-ocracy and consensus? how does that work!
      • document is on a wiki
      • fits the model of a document with a title and sub points
      • including context of rules + values would be really nice :slight_smile:
    • Solikyl Gothenburg documents
      • a category in their forum where they keep the main documents/agreements:
      • and another category for meeting notes
      • e.g. there are documents (posts) on there about the rules for people responsible for a sharing location
      • is it possible to use a forum with karrot, so groups can have their own forum within a bigger one
        • using an external forum? or a forum feature?
        • we did start some work for being able to login to karrot/foodsaving forum with karrot account
        • but even so for optimal participation having the features in karrot seems needed
        • some thoughts to keep the forum more for karrot meta/development than for the groups themselves to use
    • Foodsharing Luxembourg
      • Daniel said “Currently, we keep our agreements inside our meeting minutes on a shared drive on Google Drive. We update our group agreement based on these smaller agreements at least once a year. I do not think that this is ideal because agreements should be evaluated and then changed or discarded after a certain time. Otherwise, the list of agreements will grow indefinitely. I have not found a better way on handling this yet. Does this help you already”
      • seems like it could be a really good use case for what we’re working on (e.g. being able to remove agreements too!)
    • a couple more listed at (kanthaus, foodsharing):
    • foodsharing Stockholm
      • a newer group with very few rules for now as they are smaller

      • they have rules for a foodsharing point
        -Foodsharing Point-
        Rules for use

        This food was rescued by Foodsharing Stockholm, which is a community-based movement that helps to reduce food-waste. By taking this food, you have become a part of the Foodsharing movement! :slight_smile:

        Dropping off food at a Foodsharing point:
        Go through all the food in the fridge/cupboards and the food that you are dropping off. Throw away any of the following:
        Anything that you yourself would not eat (apart from personal dietary restrictions)
        Food that has gone past the expiration date (sista förbrukningsdag)
        Rinse any packaging from old food and recycle it if recycling bins are available.
        If any food has spilled in the fridge/cupboards, clean it up.

        Taking food from Foodsharing point:
        If the best-before date (bäst-före datum) has passed: Use your senses! Look, smell and taste the food.
        If the expiration date (sista förbrukningsdag) has passed: Throw it away!
        If neither date has passed: Enjoy!

      • wondering at which stage adding more structured agreements is useful?

        • so how much should we push the agreement of creating agreements in new groups?
        • or should they wait until a conflict/issue happens?
        • depends on the size of the group (maybe prompting them at that point)
        • ultra advanced AI to do text sentiment analysis to detect when conflict is brewing :wink:
    • groups might not include all their documents there, but over time maybe can include more
      • particularly boring legal document? focus more on everyday kind of documents
    • the groups don’t seem to use digital tools for discussing the documents, more from physical meetings
      • seems like it
      • in karrot we’re thinking to create the place for debating of the rules
      • do people not debate them online because of missing tools? or something else?
      • one of the hard questions we raised at the beginning was how to create someting to faciliate face-to-face interaction too, to complement digital and physical spaces
      • so using it as a repository of agreements should be ok too
      • a lot of decisions might be made in person first, then discussed later on karrot
      • shouldn’t aim to take away face-to-face action
      • the mechanism by which an approval is approved (e.g. reactions smiley face, etc…) and whether it should be anonymous or not, should consider these points!
  • Design of agreement’s page(s)

    • Nick’s wireframe Stage 2 - Sketching Solutions - #8 by nicksellen
    • “context for change” comes up during the change proposal phase, but maybe it’d be useful to comment on bits?
    • this design would’ve worked well in the recent experience of Solikyl in writing, discussing, getting feedback and approving a document about roles.
    • set the time limit for an agreement, will al the proposals go through all they just gonna stay there? time limit sounds necessairy
    • the time limits defined by the group itself
    • e-mail notifications
    • banner reminding that there is an open proposal
    • split screen or tab views proposals and approved ones
    • how to promote in-person discussions and decision-making?
      • idea: when creating a proposal ask the question of how the process will be
    • when reaches the time limit and there’s no negative reaction, it passes. Or 3 times more positive than negative it would get approved. If not, re-submit. Inspired on score voting
    • 4 bits to add to the sketch/prototype:
      • time component
      • field for people to write how to participate in process (e.g. in person meetings, or only online, etc…)
      • file upload for minutes
      • approval mechanism - how to approve a proposal? Face reactions would be more like temperature check
    • how to dispute approved agreements? Or make sure they’re not challenged right after being approved?
    • live democracy approach not just a fixed weekly or sth session
    • anonymous vs non-anonymous? maybe dig into deeper in the future :slight_smile:
  • Next meeting

    • Two threads to future work
      1. Vision field and how to make decisions
      2. Agreements work flow
  • Facilitator next meeting: Katie

  • check out

Date: 2021-01-28
Facilitator: Katie
Participants: Katie, Nick, Vasileios, Bruno


  • check in
    • We are generally feeling good, a bit sleepy and tired of staying home. A mix of cold and nice weather
  • Insights into Karrot Groups
    • Vasileios was thinking that in order to get myself more acquainted with karrot and its different uses from different groups it would make sense to engage with members of various groups. Having that said and in order to use this time till moving in Sweden I think it would make sense to do some interviews with members of various groups. Interviews through which I will try to understand how karrot is used within different ecosystems.
    • Came up after the call with Bruno about the landing page, reviewing the agreements from the example groups, groups use karrot differently, see karrot different as part of their ecosystem
    • Vasileios would like to interview members from different groups in different cultural and political contexts
    • This could be done by joining a group to see that first point of contact
    • Many groups on Karrot that we don’t have contact with so it would be interesting to get there perspective
    • How much of a general purpose tool this should be, at the beginning it was very focused to a particular style of foodsharing groups, its open general now focused in decentralising group organising but still quite particular. It will never be as general as a WhatsApp group for example.
  • Keeping the focus on food saving or opening it up to their activities.
    • how to prevent falling back into individualistic practices
    • People become hyper-focused on following rules and maintaining the materialities of the software to the point that they start to question why you are doing this in the first place
    • Applying the means to an end to the point that you loose sight of the end
  • Focus on the prototype
    • Not so much progress between meetings
    • Looking at FB group rules, individually editable
    • Our agreement examples would likely not work with this kind of structure at its too simple
    • Ride share group had 6 basic rules issues would be reported directly to group admins or using the FB feature, on occasions there would be issues not covered in the rule set and in these cases people would often post about their issue on the open wall or direct message someone in the admin team. 3 different systems.
    • Impressive that they can run this operation within these confines, although Vasileios explained that the group does not have the same level of collaboration/collectivity more of a peer-to-peer system.
  • Prototype of the rules
    • Do we have any input on this before Nick take the prototype to the next level
    • New collaborators are working on the new group on-bording wizard, should we use this opportunity to integrate the related governance features previously discussed such as vision and general agreements
    • Such great timing
    • At what point do we feel we can hand over the sketches and prototype to them to start building?
    • Perhaps this project is too much in the beginning, could be better to go through the design/development/review cycle with a more straightforward task first
    • We need to finalise this language used for the buttons etc and discuss some of the other details on the prototype
    • Maybe for the buttons we can add descriptions or link directly to community rule
    • Probably not necessary to include all of the decision making types included in CR (seems to be designed by an academic, many obscure ones!)
    • We could start by adding the ones we are familiar with/know that existing groups use and add others later if they come up regularly in text based descriptions.
  • How should we proceed now
    • Work concretely now or make a clear plan to enforce another day
    • How can we analyse the rules we collected, Nick, Katie, Bruno feel we have the info we need from the rules in terms of getting a sense of how they fit
    • The question of the value tags, balance of Karrot ideology and group flexibility. How do the value appear, where do they go, dig deeper into the purpose of them, how many values? Katie can work on this.
    • identifying values inherent in the written rules.
    • Hierarchy of values e.g. Collaboration to punctuality. Dominant or male idea of value as pertaining to financial value vs less dominant or female idea of value as pertaining to relational values.
  • We will have a co-working session Tuesday morning
  • Next meeting February 2021
  • Facilitator next meeting
    • Vasileios
  • check out


  • write an issue/post to describe an “inspiration-bot” system (nick)
    • like on slack when you login in can show you custom inspiring (aka cheesy) messages
  • Katie can work on the value tags
  • Continue developing the prototype based on the sketches
  • Vasileios will work on: The decision making models, how to present these and which to include. Investigate with groups, how do they name their processes? There are likely different processes used that do not have a name, the text box is needed to reflect that decision making is not a similar process. Members can likely describe the process they use concretely but dont necessarily relate it to a defined decision making model. Having the tags and examples could also aid to inspire groups to explore new models or elements of these models
  • ask for decision-making structure on forum: Share your community guidelines, rules, or agreements! - #2 by danveg
  • communityrule decision making type list: Approval voting, Condorcet, Consensus, Continuous voting, Disapproval voting, Do-ocracy, Lazy consensus, Majority Voting, Proof of Work, Quadratic Voting, Range Voting, Ranked Choice, Rough Consensus, Stake Weight, Stochastic Choice

Date: 2021-02-04
Facilitator: Vasilis
Participants: Katie, Nick, Vasileios, Bruno


  • check in

  • state of our work

    • Katie has been looking into the values of groups using karrot–> starting point for the value tabs → which terms for values are appropriate?
      • values sketch:
      • looking for connections between karrot’s groups values and karrot itself
      • some terms might be similar to other value terms
      • Nick: what about negative values, what behavior you do not want to support
      • groups collaboratively exploring values
      • how can such activities be proposed to groups by software?
    • prototype shared by Nick and Bruno:
    • sketch: how various actions lead to the various agreements-related tabs:
      • consent system: could it be a warning? will members get a notification e.g. do u approve this agreement?
    • the digital could work as the place where members of a group could draft an agreement, maybe one that was discussed in a physical meeting. Or not e.g. a member could bring this up directly via the digital →
    • Katie: put the draft to be reviewed on karrot and get feedback, some members can then chip in
    • Brn: insight from existing group: put up the agreements we already have. What would not be covered → Where to put the minutes of the meetings we have
      • stockholm group: set up an activity and then post the minutes on the feedback
    • we see the digital here as a more organized/accesible (compared to the use of various channels) way to review/discuss over agreements
    • create the possibility for members to engage more in the culture/vision/overall aim etc of a group
    • For now we make a rough prototype and freiburg group does the makeover

    In short the steps

    • create a new agreement (editors can do that)
    • a draft is created
    • any other group editor can edit the same proposal
    • anybody can see the proposal and they can participate in the related chat
      • nick way: anybody can choose +1,0, -1. The result is score voting →
  • proposal to approve a proposal: x (3 maybe) times more positive votes than negative
    - if you place a negative vote you should write a msg, negative reactions/vote should be motivated/explained
    - If the score is in favor of the proposal then it becomes approved.
    - Brn way: temperature check to get the mood of the room (they do not decide but only editors can accept or reject)–> what happens where people approve sth that has a lot of dislikes? temperature check vs editor-powered
    - should there be a lower threshold for how many members should vote in order for an agreement to be approved?

  • katie looking into the values of groups using karrot–> starting point for the value tabs → which terms for values are appropriate?

    • excalidraw values sketch: Excalidraw | Hand-drawn look & feel • Collaborative • Secure
      • looking for connecitons between karrot’s groups values and karrot itself
      • some terms might be similar to other value terms
      • Nick: what about negative values, what behavior you do not want to support
      • groups collaborativelly exploring values
      • how can such activities be proposed to groups by software?
  • pick faciliator for next time

    • Nick
  • check out


  • write a post at the community forum under Governance category to record decisions made about the prototype/features: how it will work, look like, etc. (Vasilis, Bruno) based on the description above on who can propose/change agreements, the voting mechanisms, etc.

Date: 2021-02-11
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Vasileios, Bruno


  • check in
  • state of our work
  • write a description of the decisions we made about the features, how it will be, etc.
  • discussion about the voting system
    • Vasilis suggestion: having both a temperature check and an actual voting
    • maybe with a continuous voting in which people can change their vote maybe that is not necessary
    • in the proposal above a negative vote requires a reason, but not the negative reaction (temp check)
    • Nick’s suggestion: a time period (one week) just having temp check and a second phase for the actual binding voting
    • another idea: temperature check is a scale (for ex. 0 to 5)
    • Nick’s two phases idea could also be applied to the conflict resolution feature
    • Not sure if the idea above is good for now, but maybe for later
    • What is the simplest idea we can come up with now?
    • different aspects our proposals need to address
      • who gets to create proposals?
      • who gets to edit the proposal? (just the creator? only editors? anyone?)
      • what is the time scale for deciding on a agreement? Set by users or pre-established? Maybe not really need to decide for the prototype
        • … and is the timescale a minimum, or fixed value
      • who gets to cast binding votes?
      • do we use non-binding temperature checks?
        • and if so, how do they relate to binding votes?
      • is there a threshold % of members required for binding votes?
      • which voting mechanism/maths do we use? (e.g. score voting with negative weighting)
    • a few proposals that address the aspects
      • proposal 1 (from Vasileios)
        • only editors can create proposals
        • 4 options for the timescale (3 days, 7 days, 15 days, 20 days)
        • only the editor that created the proposal can edit it
        • other people can read suggestions in the chat and implement those ideas
        • no temperature checks, only binding votes
        • anyone can vote
        • majority voting
        • 60% turnout of the group members required
        • feedback:
          • very simple (good)
      • proposal 2 (from Bruno)
        • only editors can create proposals
        • minimum time scale: 1 week
        • any editor can edit the proposal
        • changes in the proposal are recorded in the timeline of the chat (at least a minimum “this person made a change”, ideally the change content too)
        • anybody can do a temperature check
        • temperature check is score voting with negative weighting (2, 1, 0, -1, -2)
        • approval can only be done with temperature check threshold of 1 and minimum participation of 30% of active members
        • only editors can cast binding votes
        • need at least 3 editors to participate in the voting
        • without time limit, it gets approved when 3 editors have
        • feedback:
          • just one idea
          • really good, he likes it
          • bit more complicated, harder to grasp
      • proposal 3 (from Nick)
        • only editors can create proposals
        • 3 options for the timescale (3 days, 7 days, 14 days)
        • any editors can edit the proposal
        • no temperature checks
        • score voting with negative weighting (2, 1, 0, -1, -2)
        • anybody can vote
        • a minimum participation threshold of 3
        • after time period has passed if the score is > 0 (or >= 0), then the proposal is passed, otherwise rejected (they can always resubmit another proposal…)
        • feedback:
          • simpler than Brunos
          • more complicated than Vasileios’s
  • discussion: what happens after these features are implemented?
    • in the case of groups that have a more hierarchical structure, less participative. Different scenarios
      • they’d ignore it
      • they’d adapt to it and start using it
      • they’d leave Karrot
  • pick facilitator for next time
    • Bruno
  • check out


  • we were tired and slightly confused and other feelings/thoughts going on, but we felt proud that we got more clarity :slight_smile:

Date: 2021-02-18
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Vasilis, Katie, Bruno


  • check in
  • reviewing proposals on voting mechanism
    • question: choose one of the proposals or make a prototype for each of them?
    • Katie’s feedback:
      • is it necessary for only editors to create proposals? Makes sense for technical purposes, but not for community purposes. But maybe not an issue given new people won’t be so engaged
      • Likes the timescale
      • Was on board for the temp check on the beginning, but maybe too complex now. Having score voting may achieve what temp check proposed (given they can give neutral “0” voting).
      • Anybody can vote! Definitely
      • Low participation threshold for approval of proposal
      • Wonders if people would use the neutral vote, but likes the weighted system
      • Make visible proposal and voting so people can engage
    • Vasilis: trying to picture different scenarios for using agreements and voting, combining in-person and digital
      • how to take the in-person agreements and discussions and move them to the digital? Maybe some will never end up them
      • to give a voice to people who were not present at meetings, maybe better bringing the discussion/decisions to the digital. In Katie’s group: the admin people could be responsible for bringing that in
      • Katie: there is currently the question of were to put the agreements, so maybe it can be useful. Relying on the wall where things get lost.
      • Bruno: very important to keep in mind the combination of in-person meetings and the digital
      • Vasilis: let’s ask the groups! Maybe a questionnaire, interview or something…
      • Bruno: there’s a scenario of board meetings and decisions that might not fit well, but that’s fine, we want to have more ample democratic participation in the group
      • Katie: should probably not design for our cases, and maintain the values and culture of Karrot
      • Another scenario: agreement proposals being created before/during each meeting.
      • Bruno: maybe it’s useful to set a specific date related to in-person meetings?
    • Which proposals/ideals are we going to choose?
      • maybe we can test some different ideas on different prototypes
      • try both a more complicated and less complicated one and see what ideas come from the people
      • let’s think about other criteria as well that we didn’t include in the previous proposal: like anononymity, feedback on negative votes…
    • Proposal to go into the protoype (simplest)
      • only editors can submit proposals (katie doesnt morally agree, me neither, but it wont be a problem–> its easy to get karrots thus its ok)
      • timescale: minimum 1 week + suggestions + custom → pick a specific date
      • any editor can change the proposal.
        • What happens when there’s a change? Votes reset? Suggestion: people get a notification of the change and are asked to review their vote
      • no temperature check
      • everybody can vote
      • score voting with negative weighting (2, 1, 0, -1, -2)
      • anonymous voting
      • negative votes require a reason and they’re kept anonymous (“explain why you don’t like it”)
      • At least 5% of members should vote for an agreement to get approved
      • Proposal with a score >= 0 will be approved
  • pick facilitator for next time
    • Vasilis
  • check out


Date: 2021-03-04
Facilitator: Vasileios
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Katie, Vasileios


  • check in

    • notes on the landing page
      • main screenshot from foodsharing stockholm (its in english)
      • most probably there is not gonna be a problem to use it
    • Vasilis and Bruno landing page notes:
      • /welcome → landing page
      • access to the about page on the landing page (bofore log in) and accordingly when you are logged in
      • about page: a seperate page with texts and resources and links + some text existing on the current version of the landing page
      • what should we put into the about page:
        • texts…
        • resources → organize them by ways to participate (e.g. willing to participate as an activist, programmer, foodsaver etc)
          • mastodon
          • community forums
          • github
          • (maybe not?)
      • sceenshots (slideshow) u have to click or slide:
        - we got some screenshots
        - groups on karrot
        - activities
        - various types of activities (party, pickup,costum activity)
        - history
        - offers
    • Nick governance process
      Karrot Prototyping <–link
      - when proposing a new agreement → calendar for now when setting up for how long the agreement would be debated. If you select the current day → til midnight the same day
      - the prototype looks good so far. we suggested that we do not make it look like a finish design but keep it in a way that shows that there are possiblities

    • Katie tags attached to (proposed) agreements

    • Conflict resolution as a governance topic
      • intermediate sanctions
      • mediation of the conflict
      • how much work and how much capacity? which topics we want to prioritize?
    • We should identify the key areas we want to prioritize
      • thorugh the weekly meeting road map?
  • pick facilitator for next time 2021-03-11T12:00:00Z

    • Katie
  • check out


Date: 2021-03-11
Participants: Katie, Bruno, Nick, Vasileios

  • checkin

  • About page discussion

    • moving content from laning page to about page
    • pad: Meeting to discuss landing page, language, communication etc. - HedgeDoc
    • branch deployment (doesn’t have all the new content on yet)
    • about page
      • might take some of the stuff from the welcome/landing page
      • for people who might want to get involved, or know what kind of people/structure behind karrot
      • could also include values and vision, maybe towards the end of the page
      • could add a team page, but maybe later
      • how to describe getting involved / onboarding process
        • including the information directly in the about page makes it harder to change (and more likely it gets out of date)
        • getting in contact with one of us
        • maybe different profiles of people (e.g. devs, designers, community, academic, …)
        • idea/proposal: create a wiki forum post that has the definitive information
          • can link from the about page, or maybe even pull in the content via the discouse API
  • Nick will show progress on the protoyping

    • Solutions for saving data can be explored
    • Editing boxes seperatlely
    • Value tags can show the context
    • if proposal is changed would it reset vote?
    • what about submit button?
    • put voting at the end? to encourage them to read?
    • +1 for emoji voting
    • does the person who created the proposal get to vote?
    • split the proposal voting / chat page from the editing page
    • we didn’t think of how to get rid of an agreement…
  • paper/workshop (katie)

    • position paper for a small workshop around politics and technology in conjunction with the Annual Political Science Days in May 10th-12th at University of Helsinki
    • ~200 words
    • due by 14th March
    • Katie happen to write it, but not available for presenting it, Vasaleios and Bruno “WE CAN DO IT!!!”
    • maybe some content relevent from the NordiCHI
  • Working breakout

    • Just do it and report back next time
  • checkout

Actions and outcomes

  • create a how to get involved / onboarding wiki forum post (Nick to set up, others can jump in to edit)
  • Katie will share the next draft of the welcome page to get approval for the FS-STHLM Screenshots

Next meeting: 18/03
Facilitator: Bruno

Date: 2021-03-18
Faciliator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Nick

  • checkin
  • deployment and landing page
    • smaller PR with just some words + screenshot changed
  • prototype
    • add value tags?
      • Nick can work with the image from Katie and start trying out some user interface approaches
    • what else needed to try it out? (user testing)
      • should it be mobile first? maybe it can work ok on both
        • currently it’s ok on mobile except the discussion/voting/chat page
      • come up with a script/instructions for how to conduct a test
        • Kristin might give some input
  • checkout

Governance Design Process Meeting

Date: 2021-04-01
Facilitator: Katie
Participants: Katie, Nick, Vasileios

  • checkin

    • Vasileios has great weather but a bit stressed
    • Nick has experienced some heavy emotions lately but having a great morning!
    • Katie is a bit annoyed with work but enjoying the sun
  • state of prototype


      • Nick gave us a tour of the prototype so far
      • Making it more compatible with mobile.
      • Vasileios feedback: Bravo to Nick, wondering about the chat function. Suggestion for editing an existing agreement its nice to gave the option to add tags. It’s not so easy but should it be?
      • Nick wonders if we need to add some more descriptive explanations?
      • Make a manual
      • Who will we trust it with and how
    • “reason for proposal” still probably a bit confusing

    • add values

      • include the language a bit more instead of just boring “add values”, maybe work in the “this agreement will help to support… language”
      • can also include the language in the dialog, “To support …” “we encourage…”
      • it looks nice when they are added, so nice to include some of that style before any have been added
      • adding more radical values?
        • educative/performative role for karrot too
        • e.g. queerness, anarchism, degrowth
        • maybe groups then start discussing the topic?
      • a session to rethink the categories and the values
      • adding custom values
        • should they be available to other groups too? or maybe if we see a pattern we can add to the core ones
    • value tags interface?

      • Work on adding more values and refine the categories in line with the values of Karrot
    • last bits to finish up? (better mobile support)

    • user testing script?

      • ideas for tasks to ask them to complete
        • try to create an agreement about x
        • add in an existing agreement
        • select values to add, e.g. ones that appear in multiple
      • vary how many instructions we give them
      • watch them via screen-sharing, and ask them to describe what they’re doing as they do it
      • how to record the assessment?
        • make a framework for each task with a scale
          • e.g. could they complete the task easily, or with difficulties
        • and some qualitative data
        • trying to assess if the same issues are coming up repeatedly
      • Could we make a collaborative prototype? Nick says perhaps it is too complex
        • we can also do some followup interactions with the real feature once it’s in karrot
  • checkout

    • Nice balance between Karrot centred and more personal topics, good progress
  • Next facilitator: Vasileios

Actions and outcomes

  • refine prototype (Nick)
    • improve mobile/small screen behaviour (including separate button/whatever for the chat)
    • incorporate more of the values language in the interface, as discussed above
  • plan a session for refining the values and categories (?)
  • schedule a co-working session for user testing (?)
  • start working on user testing script (Katie & Vas)
  • plan and logistics of testing the prototype (Vas & … )

Governance Design Process Meeting

Date: 2021-08-04
Faciliator: Vasilis
Participants: Katie, Nick, Bruno

check in
From the last meeting

  • start working on user testing script (Katie & Vas & Bruno)
    • started a testing working plan
  • prototype (Nick)

from previous call

  • refine prototype (Nick)

    • improve mobile/small screen behaviour (including separate button/whatever for the chat) (done)
    • incorporate more of the values language in the interface, as disussed above (done)
  • plan a session for refining the values and categories (to do)

  • schedule a co-working session for user testing (to do)

  • start working on user testing script (Katie & Vas & Bruno)

    • I have started a testing working plan (Katie)
  • plan and logistics of testing the prototype (Vas & … )

Some notes/thoughts from Vasilis

  • Karrot prototype logistics
    • Finalize the prototype

    • One prototype (?)

    • Instructions text

    • Scenarios (bruno & katie got from the ground experience)

    • Mobile or not? or both?

    • Tasks for the users that going to test it?

    • Single user testing

    • Multiple users testing?

    • Single user testing (2 users from a group on the same time)

    • Which groups? Consider different organizing structures and culture of the groups and include some question for the background info
      Mentioned: Warsaw, Luxembourg, DLC in France, Robin Foods Austria
      Stockholm ← Katie
      Gothenburg ← bruno
      Less ‘traditional’ food sharing groups (e.g. community fridge kopenhagen) ← who and how we approach this group? (Katie said knows some people there)

    • How do we do the testing?
      call and we record their screen
      They do it on their own time and then they give us feedback
      Do we need sth like a consent form?
      How data are going to be used?
      Katie? Vasilis? Bruno? Nick? Will we use those date for writing sth?

    • Expectations?

    • Timeline?

new agenda points:

Katie’s notes on the prototype testing to be found here:

2 versions of prototype testing

  • have an empty canvas

    • bring a sample rule and plug it in to the system
  • propose an agreement

  • reviewing/voting/discussing/participating

  • who we recruit?

  • questionnaire: like a survey demographic

    • age: how comf people feel with technology (you get away from ageism)
    • the easiest to recruit → they can give us the less active
    • contact active and ask them to find less active (pyramid sampling)
      • stockholm
      • gotemburg
      • big groups active on the forum
        • warsaw? lux? efa? french groups (nantes) robin food (austria). Fællesskabet (KBH)
        • more top down groups
  • debriefing interviews after the prototype testing

    • what do we ask?
    • what have been looking for?
      • e.g. bruno: top down groups views on a more participatory approach
  • outcomes

    • katie will work on the scenarios
    • pilot test for the testing (vas, bruno…)
  • checkout

Actions and outcomes

  • refine prototype (Nick)
    • write sample agreements/proposals
      • maybe split the luxembourg one up to use as multiple sample agreements
    • (optional) include the section for vision/organisation boxes
  • work on the questionnaire for before the testing and the debriefing (Vas and Katie)
  • do a pilot test (Katie, Bruno)

How we move on?

Katie’s notes testing the prototype


  • Users should be english speaking, active members (with editing permissions) of a foodsharing group on Karrot.
  • We could aim for a sample of 10-15 participants for the first round of testing.

Desktop Testing environment:

  • Testing will be conducted using the most recent iteration of the prototype
  • We may also run A/B testing on different versions of the prototype e.g alternative voting methods text or slider
  • Testing will be conducted remotely on Jitsi or BigBlue Button where test participants will be provided with the link to the prototype and will share their screen while conducting the tasks.

Mobile Testing environment:

  • Testing will be conducted using the most recent iteration of the prototype
  • We may also run A/B testing on different versions of the prototype e.g alternative voting methods text or slider

Test Setup:

  • Welcome the user to the test and give them some background information and a brief explanation of what will be involved.
  • Have the user fill out a background questionnaire (approx. 5 questions, e.g. demographics, experience with Karrot, role in their foodsharing group, group culture etc)
  • Have the user sign consent for participating in the study and how you will manage their data.
  • Have users conduct each task while using the “Think aloud” protocol (audio/video record the session)
  • Observe the user as they conduct the tasks and take notes on what you see
    Conduct a short debriefing interview with the participant.

Features to test:

  1. Agreements
  2. Proposals
  3. Group vision and decision making?
  • Scenario 1: “out of the box”
    What kind of scenario do we want to test? Should we begin with a bank page experience where we assume that we have just implemented this feature to Karrot and users are exploring it for the first time?

  • Scenario 2: Working with e

  • Scenario 3: Revewing, Proposing, Discussing

Use Cases:

  1. Create a proposal from a sample (Participants own agreement)
  • From the home screen, navigate to the proposals page
  • Bring a rule from your group (Have a sample rule just in case)
  • From the home screen, navigate to the proposals page
  • Proposal you rule in the system
  1. Participate in an exisiting proposal (Our sample proposals)
  • From the home screen, navigate to the proposals page
  • Select an existing proposal (from 2, one boring and one provocative)
  • Read the proposal
  • Make a comment
  • Cast your vote
  1. Change an existing agreement (Our sample agreement)
  • From the home screen, navigate to the agreements page
  • Select an existing agreement
  • Read the agreenent
  • Propose a change

Background questionnaire Questions

approx. 5 questions

  • demographics,
  • experience with Karrot,
  • role in their foodsharing group,
  • group culture etc

Debriefing Interview Questions

  • Language
  • Values

Documenting and analysing results

  • Present the results of the test detailing any successes and/or failures the user has had with conducting the tasks and their overall experience.
  • Write an analysis of the results detailing any usability issues detected and why they may have occurred

Next meeting 15/4
Facilitator: Katie

Date: 2021-08-15
Faciliator: Nick
Participants: Vasilis, Nick, Kristin, Bruno

  • duration (max 1h for Kristin, 1h30 maybe for the rest)

  • checkin

  • introduction with/from Kristin

    • Comments from Kristin: high-fidelity prototype. Never done a prototype like this. Complex issue and wants to know how we tested and then tell how she’d test it. Seems clear how we want to proceed.
    • Nick’s open to big changes if that’s the case, depending on the feedback
    • Recruitment of people already using Karrot
    • Comments about the duration of our design process (diffrences between business-setting and open-source voluntary)
  • what we’ve done so far…

    • Governance Meeting Notes - #26 by Vasilis_Ntouros
    • includes the first draft of the user testing script
    • initial questions, “talk aloud” protocol, tasks to do
    • feedback from Kristin
      • in general, a common way to do it
      • starting with a familiar scenario
      • not being too specific with instructions
      • asking questions in the beginning
      • probably not worth testing with people who are not familiar with karrot already
      • live?
      • good to have two people, one to lead the talk, and then visitors to observe. after that the two people can discuss.
      • the moderator can then ask the visitors if they have more questions during it
      • can do it with just one person, recording video/audio, audio is actually sufficiently mostly, especially with immediate debrief
      • usually testing 3 people, literature says 5, but 3 ok for “quick and dirty”
      • afterwards come together as a group, then from all notes select 3 very good things to make these very clear, then 3-5 most important issues (could be technical/design/etc) that were troublesome
      • the recording can be nice, but prefer to do more low-effort tests more than record more, then can change things and test again…
      • question: more meta conversations to have afterwards?
        • e.g. would it make the group more democratic
        • a good idea! but problem with asking vs showing, observing vs listening. people sometimes say things are fine, when observing can reveal more information.
        • people are biased and say “yes it’s very nice!” but not clear if they will use it
      • question: we do collect some usage data, but struggle to make use of it
        • need more clear definitions of what we’re trying to achieve
        • e.g. using it every day (maybe for whatsapp, but not for all apps)
  • feedback from test we run with a member of Solikyl (Gothenburg group)
    - difficulties with quantitive vs qualitative
    - finding out if they are happy using it can only really be collected qualitatively
    - question/reflection: recruiting different types of people, two profiles: “active” people (who would write proposals), and “less active” (we want to make it easier for these people to participate more), idea to ask active people to also bring in someone less active to do user testing?
    - usually use incentives, e.g. a lunch, some yummy jam
    - in this kind of project, seems nice idea to get people to ask someone else
    - would not ask beginners to use the prototype as it is, due to complexity of the feature, perhaps trying out the whole app
    - maybe can find a nice incentive for a short as possible user test, usually people like being asked :slight_smile: and people enjoy expressing their opinion
    - question: about having different types of sample data?
    - this is more about the content though, not the feature, so not so important
    - if we have multiple versions, “tinder testing”, “swipe left/right” concept for getting feedback from quick questions that can be put to people
    - risk to try and have too much control where we don’t really have it in our prototype… some things might work better inside the app later…
    - our prototype is very advanced right now, so hard to do small incremental adoption
    - would not make any singificant changes now before next user test, maybe just minor ones
    - writing notes after each user test right away, even if debrief happens later
    - creating summary at the top of the notes with the main points, including things like quotes from the person for personal touch
    - trying to include the whole team too, e.g. including developers

    • bruno was faciliator, vasileios was visitor, and did a chat later
    • was nice to get over the technical hurdles that came up
    • was interesting with Joakim, when he wanted to make a proposal, he used the edit text like a chat box rather than just editing it :slight_smile:
  • reflections from chat with Kristin

    • not making big changes on prototype, just small bits
    • should lower the number of participants we aim for, perhaps 5, not 15
      • had noticed from a previous user testing how much we got from so few
    • perhaps background perspective of making things “fast and easy” for users different in karrot (democratizing processes in karrot)
    • keeping a balance of usable, but not necesarily “easy” (democracy is not easy)
    • perhaps don’t need incentives, as karrot is built on voluntary open contributions
    • could think more about this scenario usage (to “provoke”), but also realising the real testing will be in real life when it actually happens, but could try something within the prototype, making the test subjects into people with their own thoughts :slight_smile:
      • already got some feedback that he might be using it differently as it’s not a real scenario, not getting into the context, only the feature
    • perhaps general principle that the people are not just there to be tested, political framing of user testing
    • aligns with Karrot’s ideas on how to bring forward the social and political context, a challenge to traditional user testing
    • user testing as user participation, it can still make sense to a bigger complex feature
    • could have we broken down the feature to smaller parts?
  • putting everything on forum

  • wondering about refining our interview script

    • especially the feedback and discussions from today
  • checkout

  • Next facilitator: Vasileios

  • Next meeting: 2021-04-22

Actions and outcomes

  • start another thread “Stage 5: Testing” on the forum and put the interview script there (Vasileios/Bruno, race!)
  • include notes from tests on the forum as well (all? for the future)
  • rework agreements page to have “approved/proposals” tabs inside the agreements page + change new proposal button to say “propose new agreement” (and perhaps put it at the top) + fix the width issue with the chat (Nick)
  • refine the interview script based on meeting content (?)
  • consider conducting another user interview, e.g. Daniel (?)

Notes from first testing here: Stage 5: Testing the prototype - #2 by bruno

Date: 2021-04-22
Faciliator: Vasileios

Participants: Nick, Vasileios, Katie, Bruno

Preparation for the test we run with a member from Stockholm group

Katie is the facilitator
Nick is the observer
Vasilis and Bruno also take notes if they stay in the call
We ask the participant if it’s OK for them, all 4 of us to stay in the call
If so, we can all ask questions to the participant at the very end based on our notes
All 4 for us stayed in the call finally

-observation notes from this user testing are here: Stage 5: Testing the prototype - #3 by Vasilis_Ntouros

reflections on the testing session

  • making sure steps to follow make sense and use the right words
  • maybe introducing the session more
  • understanding the context of the group could be helpful with introductory questions
    • understanding how active the user is in the group
  • adding more context into the prototype
    • instead of having people write “testtesttest” kind of text
    • so maybe having sample rules elsewhere they can use so they can engage more with the prototype
    • maybe making a story context for people to be in with more general scenarios
      • maybe works better in the context of a user test group feature
  • values text/language/input
    • sometimes the “we will support x by encouraging y” sometimes doesn’t make a good connection, doesn’t read good
  • writing a comment in the proposal text
    • maybe having a task to add a specific point
    • editing the “whole thing” seems maybe odd
  • voting
    • not clear the voting had been done
    • maybe some feedback to show you have voted! (and that you can change it later as the discussion/proposal evolves)
    • maybe having a counter to show how many votes so far
  • discussions
    • still a bit to the side, maybe it could be more like a wall below?
    • discussions on approved agreements
  • proposals/agreements
    • making the proposals really clear
    • maybe proposals as the first tab, or different colours, or one page showing the proposals at the top
    • or a “notification number” on the proposals tab to make it more visible
  • different scenarios
    • fresh start where they are no agreements, wondering how people make sense of the feature
    • … also the one where there are existing proposals for an easier start
    • they might want “import existing agreement” at the future, but don’t need to add it into the prototype, they can use short duration proposal…
  • discussions with a clear resolution is a really nice focus
    • common to lose out if you aren’t in a thread, as it’ll fall off the bottom
    • then it’ll peter out without closure
    • could be nice to unify conflict resolution + agreement process, as it might not be clear at the start of a discussion what the outcome should be…
    • maybe can nudge users within threads to start proposals/discussions/etc
  • next steps
    maybe ask one more person for this round of testing
    then we can run some more contextual testing, with wider context
  • pick next facilitator
  • checkout

Next date: 2021-04-29
Next facilitator: ??

Date: 2021-05-13
Faciliator: Nick
Participants: Vasilis, Nick, Katie, Bruno

  • agree duration 1h40
  • checkin
  • move governance discussions to Karrot group?
  • review / reflect on our 3 user tests to make next steps…
    • Stage 5: Testing the prototype - #4 by bruno
    • confusion between approved and proposed agreements
      • one idea from Karolina: put the proposed on the left, maybe some notification (badge)
    • maybe get rid of the summary, or making it optional
      • make the box smaller, both for summary and reason to change
    • reason to change only when proposing a change
    • one way to solve the question about authorship and people not feeling comfortable changing each other’s texts
      • make it possible to write only on reason to change and not edit the content of the agreement itself
    • how to discuss an approved agreement?
      • maybe the model of issues and pull request on Github
      • interesting when something happens (issue) and the outcome is not clear. Outcome could be a conflict resolution, a new agreement, etc.
    • more general purpose discussion + decision making
      • an “action button” that you can take an existing discussion whereever it is happening (e.g. on the wall), to spawn a new “proper” discussion to then do something, with the ability to then see where it came from
  • how do we proceed? do some small changes and implement, or do another round of user testing?
    • Nick is fine with both options
    • Katie agrees. Do some small adjustment, get rid of the values. And then do one or two testings
    • Vasilis agrees with Katie. Do a couple of more interviews. Do we set a deadline? Do we have the energy to keep working on it? We do have time to work more on changes, maybe even the “github scenario”
    • Bruno. A bit more wanting to get stuff done and out there, but can see perspectives from others, so could be useful!
  • redesign a little
    • make proposals more prominent
      • maybe with “notification icon”, or at the top of the list
    • removing the “reason” for new proposals?
    • remove values? (maybe one day incorporate it more in thte context of the whole group)
      • a simpler one level version of it
      • maybe make it clear that they are the values of the group (faked in the prototype of course)
      • include some fun/anti-values?
    • adding (optional) bits to optional things… (reason, summary)
    • making summary smaller?
    • making it clear/possible that people don’t need to actual make changes to the text initially… could just include their “comment” in the reason field
      • maybe explicit choose for whether to make concrete changes?
      • if no changes proposed, then make that clear on the proposal edit, and not possible to vote until a change has been made…
  • anarchist cybernetics?
  • pick next facilitator
  • checkout

Next date: 2021-05-20
Next faciliator:

Actions and outcomes

  • refine prototype based on ideas mentioned above (nick)
  • … depending on progress of that, schedule some more user tests! (anyone)

Date: 2021-05-20
Faciliator: Nick & Bruno
Participants: Nick, Bruno

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • we had a more casual chat about
    • local organisations we are involved with and how to critically reflect on organisational structures
    • Stafford Beers viable systems model in relation to the anarchist cybernetics book
  • foodsharing festival presentation
    • 31st May 7:30pm CEST
    • would like it quite participatory
    • uncertainty about how many people
    • polls could be nice for larger numbers
    • breakout rooms nicer to get more active
      • feed them some discussion points
      • then feedback to main room
      • 4-6 people per breakout room
    • duration? 1h in programme
      • extended time at the end could be nice?
    • storytelling first part
      • story / context / history
      • engaging? using poll?
      • questions about?
        • admin roles? ambassadors? store managers? etc…
          • real life examples of how that works?
          • “it might never happen” + history feature, not so much malicious
      • make a karrot group for the event, so people can try it out! live participation!
        • give a task to them?
      • beyond foodsaving/sharing?
    • how to progress?

  • working on prototype? … or at least next steps
    • next steps to build are already clear, so let’s see how that goes…
  • move governance discussions to Karrot group?
  • pick next facilitator
  • checkout

Next date: 2021-05-27
Next faciliator:

Actions and outcomes

  • Ask Katie and Vasilis whether we should change the time/day for the meeting
  • Have a chat/call with Renata about VSM

Governance Design Process Meeting

Date: 2021-05-27
Facilitator: Nick + Katie + Bruno
Participants: Nick, Katie, Bruno

  • agree duration up to 1h30
  • checkin
  • structure a pad for the anarchist cybernetics reading group
    • karrot anarchist cybernetics reading group - HedgeDoc
    • two parts:
      • commenting ideas from the book itself, per chapter
      • trying to connect the ideas to karrot or other experiences in organising, stuff we’ve seen or participated in
        • karrots design, what we have and what could be done
    • quite free chatting, and try to organise notes
    • loose structure that we can follow if we need it, but don’t need to stick to
      • prompts:
        • something you liked
        • something you didn’t like
        • some connection to karrot
  • add a bit of content in the pad
  • a little plan for the prototype going forward
    • ideas for the concrete changes are there
    • nick needs to implement them
    • some more user testing …
    • what do we do then?
      • reflect on any further issues?
      • reach out to groups more widely to test prototype?
        • even if just consider for next iteration
      • make a github issue and wait for a developer?
        • = “developer ready”
      • some summarised outputs
        • the design process for our new governance features
          • a bit about the process
          • and the features themselves
        • meta stuff about the process itself
        • being away of different publics
          • people who want the feature
          • some people about the process itself
      • academic paper at some point :slight_smile:
  • pick next facilitator
  • checkout

Next date: 2021-06-03
Next facilitator: Katie

Actions and outcomes

  • try and find a book club time for chicago-compatible time (Nick)
    • bruno after 7pm swedish time? (but a bit tired)
    • or another day…

Date: 2021-08-05
Facilitator: self-facilitated
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Dave

  • agree duration 1h30 max
  • checkin
  • trial activities + roles + skills + stuff
    • Applicant trial pickup proposal
    • idea from Dave in Karrot
      • customized roles
      • skills matching (users specify their skills, and activities can say required skills)
      • skills would be scoped within the roles
        • e.g. gardening role would open up skills of planting, etc
      • would it make sense with our trust for role idea?
        • if it has a nice overview of information on what they’ve done
          • this helps people get the context for a person
        • maybe like gameification skill levels
      • maybe create a nice little design process for this?
        • smaller process than our last one
        • defining the problem, what we’re trying to solve
        • some sketches
        • where to collect all the info?
      • keeping one level more abstract than each group
      • defining the roles at the group level
        • how much structure in roles/skills?
        • some more openness in skills?
          • how to get the balance of detail for matching
      • a simplified version more like badges? (with a title)
      • already have preferred activities (from favourited places)
      • understanding roles are functional hierarchy (not power hierarchies)
      • roles-based matching could go quite far already
        • activities with required roles and people with roles
    • development/design capacity?
    • reflection? academic paper?
      • Vasilis/Katie/more? doing a paper still? discuss when they are around
      • can have meeting to reflect on how the process went
      • some idea of making a website to share/network on community software design processes
    • how to actually build it (agreements feature)?
      • what should we define to support developers to build it?
      • trying to get more concrete
      • add an issue in karrot-frontend to describe it
      • having the prototype should make a huge difference
      • probably stays looking for a developer until Nick is back at least…
  • Thursday meetings, what’s happening now?
    • Vasilis will be away most of August
    • Nick is leaving mid-August
    • maybe Katie is back?
    • can we keep it going?
    • should decide what to actually do from now on, get some focus
    • still would be nice to do reflection, paper, etc… on the last design process
    • … and what kind of process would we use for the next features (like a template)
      • can make it so people can actually create their own processes
    • open invite to more too, e.g. Dave
  • pick next facilitator
  • checkout

Next date: 2021-08-12
Next facilitator: ?

Actions and outcomes

  • write an issue for agreements feature (Nick)

Date: 2021-08-12
Facilitator: The Invisible Hand of the Meeting
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Dave

  • agree duration ~40m more ish
  • checkin
  • user testing FS Lund
    • replied after some time
    • also with a non-male participate as we wanted
    • perhaps won’t impact our outcomes so much now, as we mostly reached the end of the process
    • … but each person always gives new perspectives
    • Bruno up for leading, Nick up for witnessing/note taking
  • Dave’s mockups for roles
    • Karrot
    • maybe some roles could be trust based, and others not?
    • maybe have it so people can opt-in to choose which role they desire
      • then in the interface can make that clear, that they are looking for trust there
      • … and can pair up people with activities that require role + open activities
    • … but first the minimal version
    • badge system?
      • relation to roles?
      • making clearer in the ui which roles/badges a user has (e.g. inside profile photo)
  • hackathon planning
    • online in the winter
    • Dave has done some designs
    • maybe finding a theme/motivation
    • and a more detailed roadmap
    • we can talk about our capacity, and future thoughts in the community cafe
      • roles
      • bigger ideas about “breaking the silo”
        • e.g. public links
  • pick next facilitator
  • checkout

Next date: 2021-08-19
Next facilitator: ?

Actions and outcomes

  • Answer Wrick confirming the user testing (Bruno)

Governance Design Process Meeting

Date: 2021-09-02
Facilitator: Vasilitator
Participants: Bruno, Vasilis

  • agree duration

  • checkin

  • Notes from all user testings

    • Confusion between approved/existing agreements and proposals and where to find them (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

      • needs clarity with terms
      • both the approved and the proposal/discussion are visible on different tabs. Confusion between what is the agreements that needs to followed in a group at the time (bruno)
    • who gets to edit and social norms about it (1, 3)

      • only editors? (6)
      • timeline and showing the author of a change would be better (6)
    • notifications, how would it work? (2)

    • notification that sb voted (1)

    • negative voting

      • explanation should be clearer (4)
      • does not preserve anonymity (6)
    • where would discussions take place? On the agreements proposals, wall, or somewhere else outside Karrot? (2, 3, 4)

    • Voting vs having a say (2)

    • reminder to re-evaluate proposals periodically (5)

    • how many should vote for an agreement to pass (3)

    • propose changes (can change title and summary?) (Vas)

    • should we have a discussion under approved agreements? (4)

    • “because I made it, I cannot do resistence voting” (didn’t notice warning) (5) → a hover message over the disabled butons

    • not clear: propose change → choice between “Start the discussion first” and “Propose Changes first” (Bruno)

      • instead of “start a discussion”, could be “open for discussion” (5)
    • wondering how the summary will be displayed (6) <–could there be a display option before posting the changes/suggestions?

    • “depends how I want to work” when thinking about discussion first, or proposing changes first (6) → propose a change does not exclude starting up a discussion as well

  • Guidelines for creating an issue on github for the development of the agreements feature

  • Solutions/changes to be made

  • should be changed
    - “Proposals/Approved”
    - get rid of the tabs
    - all agreemetns and proposals on the same page, as a list
    - proposals should appear on top
    - add a filter “All, Only proposals, Only approved”
    - highlight approved as ‘stamped’ and maybe add a “check” icon
    - maybe use an icon, a visual cue, for the proposals which indicates that they are ‘open’ for discussion/edits

  • Propose change to approved agreement
    - Instead of “Open Details” put “Show More”?
    - Add button “Start a discussion” next to “Propose Change”, instead of clicking first on “Propose Change” and then “Start a discussion”.
    - When interacting with a proposal use “Propose change” instead of “edit proposal”

  • Make it clearer why people cannot vote negatively without commenting
    - maybe a hover message over the disabled butons?
    - maybe a warning message when trying to vote (resistance/strong resistance)?

    • Clearer vote confirmation
      • maybe a toast “Your vote has been casted”
    • Show somewhere information about the votes needed to approve an agreement/change
      • specs here: Stage 3: Making a Decision - #4 by nicksellen
      • percentage: 5% of members should vote for an agreement to be approved
      • show the score of each voting option (e.g. neutral=0, strong resistance = -2 etc) and provide an explanation/information on how votes are counted
      • take a look at the conflict resolution feature and make it consistent. Maybe improve explanations/information on the conflict resolution feature too
  • how the feature will appear on Karrot
    - On the sidenav menu, an item called agreements
    - We should probably discuss a redesign of the whole sidenav menu, which items appear

  • Notifications
    we probably never discussed how it should work but we suggest:
    - Bell notifications for everybody whenever an agreement is created, opened for discussion/changed and approved (or not?)
    - Discussions/Conversations about an agreement: only to the person who created/changed an agreement and those who participate in the conversation either on chat via editing
    - Should there be a reminder (x days left to decide the agreement)?

    • would be nice to have/change

      • when sb applies to a group would be nice to be informed about the agreements/rules a group has approved
    • Other notes/thoughts

      • what happens with existing very simple agreements? (1)
      • first move all the rules to Karrot which is good (everyone has Karrot, not Facebook) (3)
        • its sort of a confirmation
      • how would this new feature adjust to karrot?
      • when somebody joins, something they should read? (2)
      • who can vote (2) only trusted? not karrot trusted can leave a comment?
        • everyone can vote

Actions and outcomes

  • make a post on karrot group activity on Thursday: we discuss about the design process in general, feedback, reflections, thoughts blabhabla

    • post notes on forum (monday and last thursday)
    • issue on github
  • pick next facilitator

  • checkout
    Next date: 2021-13-09
    Next facilitator: ??

Governance Design Process Meeting

Date: 2021-09-09
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Katie, later Dave

  • agree duration 15:30
  • checkin
  • Notes:
  • Reflections
    • we did more like in the design thinking framework, long-term instead of a sprint
    • the defining characteristic of a sprint is to do it multiple times
    • it was good but it felt long, we lost a bit of steam in the middle
    • are there other design frameworks and methodologies that would fit better our case?
    • many more meetings for doing the prototype
    • the community vibe that we had while designing was probably reflected on the final “product”
      • it gave us time to reflect and think together
      • no pressure to be productive, no feeling of being assessed/evaluated
    • how much should we push things forward when we feel that it’s going slow or getting stuck?
      • are we ever gonna finish?
    • loosing interest and motivation towards the end, but feels refreshing maybe after a break or if someone comes back with renewed energy
    • we wished to connect more with the groups to participate in the design processes
    • let’s see what kind of design process we apply for the next topic and which one that will be. Possible candidates:
      • roles feature
      • “breaking the silo” topic

Actions and outcomes

  • pick next facilitator
  • checkout

Next date: 2021-09-16
Next facilitator: we’ll see! :slight_smile:

Date: 2021-09-16
Facilitator: ourselves
Participants: Bruno, Vasilis

  • agree duration 1h
  • checkin
  • Discussion points
    • reflection on the design process
      • we should spend some time jotting down some ‘principles’ at some point
      • redo a list on ‘principles/values/reminders’
    • issue → votes when a proposal is re-edited
      • suggestion: people get a notification that a change has been made on an existing proposal:‘check if you want to keep your vote’
      • we keep it as an open question as it appears on the issues on github
    • funding from NLnet
      • Vas will share Nick’s and Bruno’s mail so we ‘remove’ noise
    • community cafe
      • Post on the place wall (will we do a community cafe this month?)

Actions and outcomes

For next meeting, write down a little list of principles/reminders(?) of how to design for Karrot. For example:

  • E.g. 1 we design having in mind end-users appropriations (end user development) → we design a malleable infrastructure

  • E.g. 2 we design a permeable infrastructure (different groups can be independent however they can easily interact among each other)

  • E.g. 3 we design a multi-purpose platform (more than foodsharing groups)

  • E.g. 4 we design for groups not individuals

  • E.g. 5 do we aim at moving people out of social media like FB?

  • etc.

  • pick next facilitator

  • checkout

Next date: 2021-09-23 (perhaps, uncertain for both Vas and Bruno)
Next facilitator: