thinking of the role for the other end of the chain to participate within the software
we inherited foodsharing.de model, where stores don’t use the platform
… but maybe employees of stores are busy, so easier to just make agreement for regular pickups up front
but maybe depends on who is providing the surplus, supermarket chain maybe don’t need to use a tool, but a smaller provider might get some benefit
relating to queueing stuff that has to be done, maybe instead of central social events, could have more peer to peer organising of the resources
a lot of ideas and potential! expanding beyond the group boundary (“breaking the silo”), good idea to plan some structure/strategy for doing this, but what do we want to do before expanding that scope, another design process?
being realistic about capacity
maybe this is system 4 stuff in VSM, strategy relating to the wider community/society/environment
need to get more of an overview of our strategy/path/direction, visual especially, mind map
could do an excalidraw session
karrot as a legal entity? when would that make sense?
also how to deal with culture of money, and work
regular community calls
coming from ideas discussed in the foodsharing festival call
monthly call where anybody from the groups could drop in?
“feedback” sessions
start with a one off? and go from there?
could be challenging to manage the different perspectives, of groups vs core team?
who makes decisions? faciliates?
or more inter-group calls, started by people in groups
over time I (Nick) would like it to feel like the groups “own” karrot
people might just see the calls as “general feedback”, bugs, features…
can keep all these open questions in mind
first session like “let’s meet each other” kind of session
find some suggestions on the next steps to evolve Karrot as a community and organisation
4. Closing Ceremony
pick facilitator for next week
checkout
5. Next
Next meeting: 2021-07-12 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet
Karrot groups online cafe!
Running a Karrot groups’ online cafe is an idea that has been discussed more than a few times during the Development call which takes place every Monday.
Let’s then give it a try and make it happen! Let’s share a coffee, a tea or a drink and meet each other, discuss about our groups, our activities, our needs and concerns, our future plans, our summer vacation and the ways we use and don’t use Karrot or other technologies to support our communities.
(And who knows? We might make it at some point to run a real and in-person Karrot festival.)
I think we’ll soon start some regular (maybe monthly?) community calls, and could consider the times for that (maybe should do a time poll here).
I would prefer to keep the weekly calls at the current time, as it takes quite a long time to settle into a rhythm with them after choosing a time (experienced that before!).
this is all from the consideration of my participation, but also one day I might like to go back to just talking about coding, so wouldn’t need to join all these other calls
we don’t usually talk a lot directly about “developer topics” on any of the calls actually (I would enjoy a bit more dev-talk )
Karrot groups online cafe!
Running a Karrot groups’ online cafe is an idea that has been discussed more than a few times.
Let’s then give it a try and make it happen! Let’s share a coffee, a tea or a drink and meet each other, discuss about our groups, our activities, our needs and concerns, our future plans, our summer vacation and the ways we use and don’t use Karrot or other technologies to support our communities. (And who knows? We might make it at some point to run a real and in-person Karrot festival.)
points to add
“improve karrot” - giving feedback about karrot itself (making it karrot more central)
but maybe this is a chance to get the bigger picture of groups, not the about the tool itself
e.g. sharing how they use group, instead of just presenting requests for features, etc.
“share experiences” - sharing knowledge between groups?
structures
should have facilitation (or vasilitation)
“present how you organise your group” via screenshare
introduce your group (maybe getting a structure for what they can present)
over time maybe encourage other people to facilitate, trying to break down barriers between the karrot team and the karrot groups
pick a date
start with monthly
request from Michal for “after 17:00 UTC+1?” (Central Europe) (not Mondays, not Thursdays, not Fridays)
so, Wednesday the 28th
open question about the recurring part
reach out
Move to next week
also a weekly dev/tech call perhaps?
dev talk feels out of place in weekly co-ordination call now
ideas on how to improve Karrot as an organisation
based on diagrams and discussion from previous meeting
3. Actions/Outcomes
sending Thomas Swann a follow-up email (Vasilis)
push forward github org name change (Nick)
share info about about first community cafe (Vasilis)
4. Closing Ceremony
pick facilitator for next week
checkout
5. Next
Next meeting: 2021-07-19 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: The Vasilitator
Where: Jitsi Meet
Date: 2021-07-26 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Bruno
Notary:
Participants: Bruno, Vasilis
1. Check in and Updates
agree duration
checkin
Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
2. Discussion points
karrot groups’ cafe
a loose structure to it (a suggestion, but we want to leave the discussion open)
Quick intro of the idea for a cafe and what is point
general feedback
new ideas for features
exchange of experiences between groups
checkin and quick introduction
present themselves and their respective groups
which tools do they use and how they organize
screenshare?
how long?
1 hour and if people want to stay then longer
facilitator?
Vasilis and Nick
flexible facilitation just in case conversation dies out or looses track too much
testing
Bruno will contact Wrick (FS Lund) again and invite him to the testing if no female participant can
Suggest to have it on a Thursday 3 pm CEST
On Thursday’s meetings for the design process, what to do next?
first conclude the one we’re doing now. Reflect on the governance design process we had and maybe come up with a better version of it. Design process in the context of democratizing and opening up the design to groups using Karrot.
start a new one about “breaking the silo” of groups theme after we’re done with this, or
continue adapting/designing Karrot for other non-foodsaving groups
summer
Vasilis might not be very much available in August. Katie will be back.
idea for: “maybe a “mini conference” on the topic of co-op/open source/software food systems? Present our projects for 5 mins each, then facilitated chat?”
building up capabilities within the karrot community
funding
need for more developers
plan a future hackaton or just a community gathering is a nice idea
new roadmap meeting!
we missed the last scheduled one
perhaps we feel a bit drifty for now
maybe we’re like in a summer pause?
conflict resolution process
our current feature is designed and works for bigger conflicts potentially involving the whole group
many conflicts though are much smaller, and perhaps based on misunderstandings, and don’t work well with our more heavyweight approach
we already discussed quite a few times ideas to have “escalating” levels of conflict (e.g. one-to-one, then add in faciliator/mediators, then whole group if needed)
but many approaches might be more cultural than “feature” based
perhaps could have a way to include good tips for conflict (“are you angry? maybe take some time for breathing”)… or maybe spaces where groups can write tips, or link to useful resources?
perhaps non-personalized approach for flagging up some issues, to share how to do things (but avoiding passive aggressive communication)
idea to be able to flag in the feedback that some “issue” came up, perhaps somebody then would look through the feedback page and see some that were flagged, then they can discuss them in some space
generally being able to flag things as governance discussions, maybe connect to some actions? like start discussion on the agreements, start a poll, etc… general concept of some action buttons
topics of dreaming vs doing
when are things lovely motivating dreams and ideas, and when do they become expectations? / demands?
maybe like NVC requests, not being demands, but gifts about how to do something nice
3. Actions/Outcomes
flow with wind and dance with the stars (everyone)
4. Closing Ceremony
pick facilitator for next week
checkout
5. Next
Next meeting: 2021-08-16 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet
I’m wondering actually about implementing the more complex one Dave drew in Karrot
multiple different role slots
the ambition is to make it customizable in the future, so group’s can use their own terminology for the roles
also needs the “trust for role” work to make this usable
also chatted a bit about other ways to get roles potentially in the future
default (e.g. member role)
trust
self-assigning
algorithmically (like discourse badges)
this role stuff will be Nick’s main work at the moment
invoicing luxembourg
call with Dave’s design person
last bit of chat:
dave: @Nick What about Wednesdays 24 oder Friday 26 of november? Would that work for you? We could also make 6pm instead of 8 pm.
nick: yup, either of those work for me, at either time actually… maybe we try an 8pm time so Bruno has a higher chance of being able to join, but otherwise let’s just go for something
ask vas to email them to change strapline on NLnet; NGI Zero Discovery from “Save and share food waste” to “Start a group, become a community” (nick) (done)
announce change of chat from rocket chat to matrix on our different channels - Karrot group, rocket chat itself and community forum (Bruno) (done)
3. Discussion points
booking our holiday in the caribbean ;D ;D ;D
update from NLnet
no updates yet. we expect their reply on when to set up a call
Software is developed but not used yet by any community
it can be described as a modular toolkit → a mutual aid platform
could we collaborate with bonfire in our effort of ‘breaking the silo’ on Karrot?
should we try and ‘formalise’ and better document the collaborative design process we have followed so far so we can share it and discuss about it with other initiatives as well?
we could run sth like a solidarity tech real-life meeting that can have a conf structure and collab with initiatives like bonfire
our experience hasn’t been very positive with it, usually requires a lot of time to introduce and help people coming through up-for-grabs, and they disappear
we’ll de-list it
Hackathon
date/duration:
bruno moves 1st feb, so after that… + 1 week to settle
12th feb to 20th feb?
saturday → sunday
timeline before that?
come up with a name
put online form up
invite people
prepare tools for the session
name
not hackathon, too techie?
jam? karrotjam? <— we like it! karrot jam
week of karrot?
karrotdays?
wuppdays?
description
async vs sync
each day a sync session?
morning…?
plus some bigger “events”
maybe at the weekend bits?
more self organised in the week…
dreaming, conceptualising, and doing
categories above for the sessions
opening session, in order to plan
closing session, debrief and work ahead
invitation
ask what people are insteresting in, to plan sessions
do we have consent to do mass email to karrot people?
might be too much…
contacting groups through our existing connections might be good
personal emails, and ask if they can invite people in their group
with a template (maybe forum post)
tools
online form for people to put their interests in
could be forum? but can do it without having account?
some link to share with the info about it (forum post)
for the event itself
video chat, jitsi, or bbb…
community chat space?
karrot group? matrix? hackathon group?
karrot group! can put sessions as activities…
invite people in advance?
collaborative design tools
miro, etc…
excalidraw?
making mockups
stuff to fix on karrot to make it more useful?
nice icons?
per-user timezones?
long duration activities? (to make one for the whole thing…)
Ask Katie about the dissertation from Rakel and Sabina (Vasilis)
move current rocket chat to oldchat.karrot.world (nick)
look into rocketchat backups/export (nick)
redirect chat.karrot.world to matrix room (nick)
ask fabian/dominic if they would be interested to do code reviews (nick)
delist from upforgrabs (nick)
continue planning karrotjam (all)
write first draft of description/invitation (Vas, Bruno)
3. Discussion points
karrot jam → karrot days (we like it better)
invitation (1st draft):
Hello everyone! Older and newer members of Karrot, supporters and friends of all sorts, groups and individuals interested in collaborative and participatory forms of designing.
We invite you to join ‘Karrot days’, a week-long event which will take place virtually between --/02/2021 and --/02/2021. The aim of ‘Karrot days’ is to create an open, safe, hybrid and non-hierarchical environment, one within which we can meet each other, chill together, discuss, contemplate and dream together and collaborate to improve Karrot towards making it a digital tool that can better support existing communities of sharers and the development of new ones.
For those not familiar with Karrot, in short Karrot is a grassroots, non-hierarchical and self-organized software project. As a tool it is designed and sustained by some of its very own users. Karrot has been initially developed to support communities of foodsavers and foodsharers and it is currently redeveloped to support other types of communities that can benefit from the use of technology. You can read more about Karrot here:…
Expressing your interest to participate in advance would be really helpful in order to better organize ‘Karrot days’.
If you are interested to join please fill the following form: (link)
P.S.1 There are no prerequisites for joining ‘Karrot days’. Everyone who believes in the values of sharing and collectively shaping a ‘people over markets’ internet is more than welcome to join!
P.S.2 If you want to propose an idea, share some ‘Karrot days’ thoughts, ask a question etc you can contact either @Vasilis or @Bruno who wrote this invitation together.
can we be more straitfoward at the beginning? Focus a bit more on the activities we would like to organise around Karrot as a tool?
a mini version and a longer text as well
different audiences? would it be a good strategy to break down an invitation for different audiences?
people who use it and more-or-less aware of it
wider audience, maybe activists or academics, or general interest in platforms
tech/developer perspective who might go for tech details
for the activities we agreen on three tracks/headings: dreaming/conseptualizing/doing
No updates from NLnet? Should we sent an e-mail? Yes
Interviewing people from differnet Karrot groups? Could this be a valuabe input for the hackathon? Or could we get these kind of data during the hackathon?
tell us a bit around Karrot, ideas, concerns, what you might get out of…
let’s jot down few questions
think of the process: how will we ciculate this ‘questionnare’
do we need a @karrot email?
collaborative music sessions for karrot days? (yes, we can try this out)
)