Weekly call about Karrot development 2021

I think we’ll soon start some regular (maybe monthly?) community calls, and could consider the times for that (maybe should do a time poll here).

I would prefer to keep the weekly calls at the current time, as it takes quite a long time to settle into a rhythm with them after choosing a time (experienced that before!).

this is all from the consideration of my participation, but also one day I might like to go back to just talking about coding, so wouldn’t need to join all these other calls :wink:

we don’t usually talk a lot directly about “developer topics” on any of the calls actually (I would enjoy a bit more dev-talk :frowning: )

1 Like

Date: 2021-07-12 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Nick
Notary:
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Vasilis

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration 1h, 1h20
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
    • talk to Thomas Swann author of book Anarchistic Cybernetics
    • nice session at social.coop’s Community Café
    • lots of PRs merged!

2. Discussion points

  • rename github org?
    • current: yunity · GitHub
    • also have empty: fsww · GitHub
    • rename, or new org?
    • name ideas:
      • (“karrot” is already taken)
      • karrotorg
      • wearekarrot
      • getkarrot
      • karrotproject
      • karrotdev
      • karrotworld
      • karrotcommunity
    • forum poll, then go forward!
    • what to do with non-karrot projects?
      • archive them
      • move them to yunity gitlab
      • move them to kanthaus gitlab
  • organise community call
    • what do we wish to achieve with it?
    • description
      • Karrot groups online cafe!
        Running a Karrot groups’ online cafe is an idea that has been discussed more than a few times.
        Let’s then give it a try and make it happen! Let’s share a coffee, a tea or a drink and meet each other, discuss about our groups, our activities, our needs and concerns, our future plans, our summer vacation and the ways we use and don’t use Karrot or other technologies to support our communities. (And who knows? We might make it at some point to run a real and in-person Karrot festival.)
    • points to add
      • “improve karrot” - giving feedback about karrot itself (making it karrot more central)
        • but maybe this is a chance to get the bigger picture of groups, not the about the tool itself
          • e.g. sharing how they use group, instead of just presenting requests for features, etc.
      • “share experiences” - sharing knowledge between groups?
    • structures
      • should have facilitation (or vasilitation)
      • “present how you organise your group” via screenshare
      • introduce your group (maybe getting a structure for what they can present)
      • over time maybe encourage other people to facilitate, trying to break down barriers between the karrot team and the karrot groups
    • pick a date
      • start with monthly
      • request from Michal for “after 17:00 UTC+1?” (Central Europe) (not Mondays, not Thursdays, not Fridays)
        • so, Wednesday the 28th
      • open question about the recurring part
    • reach out

Move to next week

  • also a weekly dev/tech call perhaps?
    • dev talk feels out of place in weekly co-ordination call now
  • ideas on how to improve Karrot as an organisation
    • based on diagrams and discussion from previous meeting

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • sending Thomas Swann a follow-up email (Vasilis)
  • push forward github org name change (Nick)
  • share info about about first community cafe (Vasilis)

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-07-19 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: The Vasilitator
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-07-19 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: The Vasilitator
Notary:
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Vasilis, Janina (<-- yay, welcome back)

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Discussion points

  • funding application
    • NLnet; User-Operated Internet Fund → funded by a mysterious organization (?)
    • should we contact them before the actual application for a funding?
    • funding application pad: pad to share some thoughts/ideas about nlnet funding - HedgeDoc
    • idea of funding as a commons itself, using participatory budgeting approach?
      • when we last asked on the forum who needs money, not a lot of engagement
    • we might need to do a bit more background/fundemental thinking about how money related to karrot, and the groups
      • a lot of meta-level, about how we organise in general, beyond just open source stuff
      • we might be able to set up a bigger concept of commons-orientated technology project, that we can share the model
    • can also work on the tool itself, which is about commoning
    • two levels: commons governance - maintain the oreration/functionality of the tool
    • how to we actually go from “commons” as a term into what we actually do…
    • code mentoring → training and soft development
    • add more features to costumize groups
    • karrot as an open ended platform → plug in
    • bridge the gap between the developers and the users → empower non-techical people (participatory design process is in this direction)
    • have a clear direction
      • as existing contributors we might actually benefit from more structure, which could support us to contribute more
    • going forward with application
      • writing them a brief email
        • checking if it seems worth submitting…
      • work on the application form → NLnet; Apply for a grant
  • have a weekly dev/tech call perhaps?
    • dev talk feels out of place in weekly co-ordination call now
    • (maybe rename “Weekly call about karrot development”, development → co-ordination?
    • agreement the monday call is not a developer call any more
    • one idea to split the Monday call into two purposes
    • other idea to have a new dedicated call
  • ideas on how to improve Karrot as an organisation
    • based on diagrams and discussion from previous meeting
  • karrot groups’ cafe

3. Actions/Outcomes

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-07-26 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: fa-bruno-tator/ facilibruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-07-26 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Bruno
Notary:
Participants: Bruno, Vasilis

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Discussion points

  • karrot groups’ cafe

    • a loose structure to it (a suggestion, but we want to leave the discussion open)
      • Quick intro of the idea for a cafe and what is point
        • general feedback
        • new ideas for features
        • exchange of experiences between groups
      • checkin and quick introduction
        • present themselves and their respective groups
      • which tools do they use and how they organize
        • screenshare?
    • how long?
      • 1 hour and if people want to stay then longer
    • facilitator?
      • Vasilis and Nick
      • flexible facilitation just in case conversation dies out or looses track too much
  • testing

    • Bruno will contact Wrick (FS Lund) again and invite him to the testing if no female participant can
    • Suggest to have it on a Thursday 3 pm CEST
  • On Thursday’s meetings for the design process, what to do next?

    • first conclude the one we’re doing now. Reflect on the governance design process we had and maybe come up with a better version of it. Design process in the context of democratizing and opening up the design to groups using Karrot.
    • start a new one about “breaking the silo” of groups theme after we’re done with this, or
    • continue adapting/designing Karrot for other non-foodsaving groups
  • summer

    • Vasilis might not be very much available in August. Katie will be back.
  • funding application

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • share Karrot group’s cafe on FS Stockholm (Bruno)
  • reply Wrick from FS Lund about testing and the above (Bruno)
  • write the first draft for the application (Bruno)
  • contact Vasilis Kostakis for some reference on software governance in general (Vasilis)

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-08-02 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Vasilitator
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-08-02 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Nick
Notary:
Participants: Nick, Bruno

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
    • application to NLnet

2. Discussion points

  • user testing with Luxembourg
    • Bruno to run user test, Nick to be witness/notetaker
  • work coming up in next couple of weeks (before Nick leaves…)
    • merging some PRs
    • role required activities + trust for role
      • Role based trust + activities · Issue #2361 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub
      • role require UI ideas:
        • Applicant trial pickup proposal - #38 by nicksellen
        • another idea having an “enable access control” (or “restrict access”) toggle which then opens up the role limitation + open slot controls
          • then have a slider for how many of the max slots are for the restricted role
          • tricky bit of whether open slots can be filled by people who do have the role
          • or are the open slots explicitly for “guests” (non-role people)
          • open slots could be useful for things like the main role for people who are experienced vs those who are unskilled helpers
          • could have a visual representation of what the settings mean
            • e.g. show it like an activity, with nice colour coding for the “open” slots
            • also question on how to visualize the open slots
        • “open” vs “guest” terminology
        • (also keeping in mind one day there could be “public” access to selected parts of karrot)
        • this topic has a potential to be much bigger
          • customizable roles for groups (even per place)
        • would be useful to get some clarity on open/closed participants
          • in the code sometimes “participants” means all of them, sometimes just the “non-open” ones
        • how would the transition to having “approved” role work
          • nobody would initially have the approved role, and groups would have to use the “trust for role” for people to get the role
        • will be interesting to see if/how groups use the feature
        • we explord discord UI for related (and unrelated) ideas
  • food rescue alliance contact

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • reply to Daniel with a suggested time for Tuesday user testing (Bruno)

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-08-09 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-08-09 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Nick
Notary:
Participants: Nick, Bruno

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Discussion points

  • reply to Can Karrot support our food co-op?
  • writing issue for agreements feature
  • Dave’s mockups about roles
  • building up capabilities within the karrot community
    • funding
    • need for more developers
    • plan a future hackaton or just a community gathering is a nice idea
  • new roadmap meeting!
    • we missed the last scheduled one
    • perhaps we feel a bit drifty for now
    • maybe we’re like in a summer pause?
  • conflict resolution process
    • our current feature is designed and works for bigger conflicts potentially involving the whole group
    • many conflicts though are much smaller, and perhaps based on misunderstandings, and don’t work well with our more heavyweight approach
    • we already discussed quite a few times ideas to have “escalating” levels of conflict (e.g. one-to-one, then add in faciliator/mediators, then whole group if needed)
    • but many approaches might be more cultural than “feature” based
    • perhaps could have a way to include good tips for conflict (“are you angry? maybe take some time for breathing”)… or maybe spaces where groups can write tips, or link to useful resources?
    • perhaps non-personalized approach for flagging up some issues, to share how to do things (but avoiding passive aggressive communication)
    • idea to be able to flag in the feedback that some “issue” came up, perhaps somebody then would look through the feedback page and see some that were flagged, then they can discuss them in some space
    • generally being able to flag things as governance discussions, maybe connect to some actions? like start discussion on the agreements, start a poll, etc… general concept of some action buttons
  • topics of dreaming vs doing
    • when are things lovely motivating dreams and ideas, and when do they become expectations? / demands?
    • maybe like NVC requests, not being demands, but gifts about how to do something nice

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • flow with wind and dance with the stars (everyone)

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-08-16 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-08-30 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Bruno
Notary:
Participants: Vasilis, Bruno

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Discussion points

  • still haven’t heard from Nlnet
  • updating Vas…
  • agreements feature and user testing
    • we’ll go through the notes next Thursday
    • have a final discussion/reflection with everybody on the process we had
  • community cafe and global commoning system
  • breaking the silo topic
    • seeing how groups work in practice, in their interaction with the outside world
    • 2 layer approach: keep the group organizing (internal) and share information publicly and easy to contact the group (external)

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • go through notes for the agreement feature and see if there is any particular changes (on Thursday)
  • put agreements feature on Github as an issue (Bruno)

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-09-06 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: The Vasilitator
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-09-06 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Vasilis
Participants: Bruno, Vasilis

1. Check in and Updates

2. Discussion points

  • Incubator/funding to work on governance in open source - https://incubator.codeforscience.org/
    • Requires 5-15 hours a month for 6 months
    • we wonder who will be able and want to do it
    • vasilis will make a post on karrot group
  • design call about the prototype
    • we finished talking about the tests and the agreements feature itself
    • notes up on the forum

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • Ask on Karrot group who wants to apply for the incubator (Vasilis)
  • Prepare the guidelines for the agreements feature and share them as an issue on github

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-09-13 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: ??
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-09-13 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Vasilis
Participants: Bruno, Vasilis

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Discussion points

  • Vasilis research/data collection
    • 3 types of data
      • Ethnographic/personal notes
      • Data about the groups using Karrot
      • Visiting groups doing foodsaving
      • maybe interviews/chats
    • participation in Karrot both in more mundane tasks and also writing about it and present it at different circles
    • avoid research extractivism
    • general inquiry: how digital tools can be created as commons and can empower people in the context of a solidarity/gift/sharing economy
      • foodsaving as a case study
  • Bruno short recap on Thursday’s call (reflection on design process)
    • leave it for thursday
  • Rakel and Sabina 's project
    • should we poke em?

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • Katie ask about Rakel’s/Sabina’s work?

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week : Bruno
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-09-20 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-11-02 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator:
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Vasilis

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Discussion points

  • what’s going on in our lifes, how will we get back to work on Karrot
  • Daniel (Lux) would like to send some money to Karrot (their group got some EU (?) funding)
    • Nick will send an invoice and the money will go to our Karrot account
  • brunos time tue/wed/thu 9:00-14:00 is most available
  • tuesday 12:00 central europe time is good time for us 3 for a regular meeting
  • hearing from Vasileios about academic interests
  • wait and see when/if we get the funding

3. Actions/Outcomes

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-11-09 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-11-09 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Vasileios

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration ~1h from now (~13:15)
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
    • I’m (nick) back!
    • moving community.foodsaving.world to community.karrot.world

2. Discussion points

  • playing with the new ics subscription feature
    • google calender import doesn’t have a space for user/pass
    • nor does outlook (possibly)
    • maybe mac calender doesn’t either…
    • so could have a “magic link” style private link instead, that will be authenticated automatically
  • winter hackathon? (nick)
    • dave already did some designs in Karrot
    • december? january? january seems best
    • good experiences from before: specific invites (Trustroots), online drop-in in different sessions
    • a week of focused work
    • can organise it using karrot, with different activities
    • come up with a list of potential things to do at the hackathon
    • should it even be called hackaton? Maybe something less code-oriented
    • one of points of having it is to engage new people
    • “energy raising” purpose, hard to maintain energy when working in little bits over time
    • useful to define some roles for people, co-ordinating different parts of it
  • meeting with Dave’s UI family member
  • chat with bonfire people
  • some low-hanging fruits to work on?
  • solikyl accepting erasmus +?

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • ping dave, and others, afterwards about hackthon ideas (nick)
  • ponder and reflect before next session (anyone, everyone)
  • co-ordinate when to have a call with bonfire people (nick, to co-ordinate with vasileios, bruno?)

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-11-16 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Vasilitator
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-11-16 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Everyone
Participants: Nick, Bruno

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Discussion points

  • nlnet
    • co-ordinating next steps call: Vasilis suggested next Tuesday
    • we should read NGI0-intakedocument.pdf
    • public announcement now too?
      • announcing on forum, in karrot, and on fediverse
    • NLnet; NGI Zero Discovery has karrot listed now
      • strapline is “Save and share food waste” so we should ask to switch to
  • chat with bonfire person/people
  • activities with role
    • member role as the default
    • terminology: “participants” + “guests”? (“extras”?)
    • I’m wondering actually about implementing the more complex one Dave drew in Karrot
      • multiple different role slots
    • the ambition is to make it customizable in the future, so group’s can use their own terminology for the roles
    • also needs the “trust for role” work to make this usable
    • also chatted a bit about other ways to get roles potentially in the future
      • default (e.g. member role)
      • trust
      • self-assigning
      • algorithmically (like discourse badges)
    • this role stuff will be Nick’s main work at the moment
  • invoicing luxembourg
  • call with Dave’s design person
    • last bit of chat:
      • dave: @Nick What about Wednesdays 24 oder Friday 26 of november? Would that work for you? We could also make 6pm instead of 8 pm.
      • nick: yup, either of those work for me, at either time actually… maybe we try an 8pm time so Bruno has a higher chance of being able to join, but otherwise let’s just go for something :slightly_smiling_face:
  • shut down https://chat.karrot.world?
  • PR Place default view Place default page by brnsolikyl · Pull Request #2444 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub
    • we discussed having an Add Location button instead of the toggle (as you can already clear the location with the “x” button)
  • @mentions Add @mentions · Issue #2407 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub
    • @123 @username ?
    • usernames seems maybe the way forward, automatically generate existing ones, and suggest usernames on registration based on display name
    • usernames are for each user across the whole of karrot instance, not per group
    • … not thinking yet about all the notification stuff :slight_smile:

3. Actions/Outcomes

  • announce funding! forum, karrot, fediverse (nick)
  • ask vas to email them to change strapline on NLnet; NGI Zero Discovery from “Save and share food waste” to “Start a group, become a community” (nick)
  • announce change of chat from rocket chat to matrix on our different channels - Karrot group, rocket chat itself and community forum (Bruno)

4. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

5. Next

Next meeting: 2021-11-23 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

1 Like

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes

  • announce funding! forum, karrot, fediverse (nick) (done)
  • ask vas to email them to change strapline on NLnet; NGI Zero Discovery from “Save and share food waste” to “Start a group, become a community” (nick) (done)
  • announce change of chat from rocket chat to matrix on our different channels - Karrot group, rocket chat itself and community forum (Bruno) (done)

3. Discussion points

  • booking our holiday in the caribbean ;D ;D ;D

  • update from NLnet

    • no updates yet. we expect their reply on when to set up a call
  • reflections on Bonfire meeting

    • origins of bonfire - HedgeDoc
    • Ivan and James participated in the call with Nick
    • Nick thinks its a project quite aligned to Karrot
    • Software is developed but not used yet by any community
    • it can be described as a modular toolkit → a mutual aid platform
    • could we collaborate with bonfire in our effort of ‘breaking the silo’ on Karrot?
    • should we try and ‘formalise’ and better document the collaborative design process we have followed so far so we can share it and discuss about it with other initiatives as well?
    • we could run sth like a solidarity tech real-life meeting that can have a conf structure and collab with initiatives like bonfire
  • intro text from Vas (writing a paper on karrot)
    Introduction v.1.0 (shared with Karrot people) - Google Docs

  • hackathon updates

    • Karrot
    • a lot of questions so far, not so many answers
    • would be nice to align with nlnet roadmap stuff
    • next week start creating a minimal plan of how it works and what we want to work on
    • hackathon as a term doesnt do the job its quite techy so…
      • week of karrot
      • gamejam
      • co-optition
      • jam (this sounds good)
      • wupp-wochenende (wupp days!)
  • meeting with Dave UI person poll…

4. Actions/Outcomes

  • for the next meeting, discussing and planing hackathon

5. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

6. Next

Next meeting: 2021-11-30 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-11-30 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Nick, Vasilis, Bruno

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
    -Github repo changed from yunity to karrot-dev Karrot Dev · GitHub

2. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes

  • for the next meeting, discussing and planing hackathon

3. Discussion points

  • what is karrot?
    • it’s more a software project
    • foodsharing.de is but also much more
    • in karrot all the stuff going on in the groups stays within the groups
    • also a community around karrot?
  • Updates on meeting Nlnet?
    • wait another week for their reply
  • write a summary/overview of our community design process
  • time to officially shut down Rocket Chat
    • redirect chat.karrot.world → matrix space
    • should we save content?
    • can rocket chat do backups?
    • it has a “download my data” per-user thing… is that enough?
  • de-foodification of Karrot on the pipeline: Update outdated URLs by nicksellen · Pull Request #2455 · karrot-dev/karrot-frontend · GitHub
  • Hackathon
    • date/duration:
      • bruno moves 1st feb, so after that… + 1 week to settle
      • 12th feb to 20th feb?
      • saturday → sunday
      • timeline before that?
        • come up with a name
        • put online form up
        • invite people
        • prepare tools for the session
    • name
      • not hackathon, too techie?
      • jam? karrotjam? <— we like it! karrot jam
      • week of karrot?
      • karrotdays?
      • wuppdays?
    • description
    • async vs sync
      • each day a sync session?
      • morning…?
    • plus some bigger “events”
      • maybe at the weekend bits?
      • more self organised in the week…
    • dreaming, conceptualising, and doing
      • categories above for the sessions
    • opening session, in order to plan
    • closing session, debrief and work ahead
    • invitation
      • ask what people are insteresting in, to plan sessions
      • do we have consent to do mass email to karrot people?
        • might be too much…
      • contacting groups through our existing connections might be good
        • personal emails, and ask if they can invite people in their group
        • with a template (maybe forum post)
    • tools
      • online form for people to put their interests in
        • could be forum? but can do it without having account?
      • some link to share with the info about it (forum post)
      • for the event itself
        • video chat, jitsi, or bbb…
        • community chat space?
          • karrot group? matrix? hackathon group?
          • karrot group! can put sessions as activities…
          • invite people in advance?
      • collaborative design tools
        • miro, etc…
        • excalidraw?
        • making mockups
    • stuff to fix on karrot to make it more useful?
      • nice icons?
      • per-user timezones?
      • long duration activities? (to make one for the whole thing…)
  • local instances? and federation…

4. Actions/Outcomes

5. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

6. Next

Next meeting: 2021-12-07 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Vasilitator
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-12-07 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: The Vasilitator
Participants: Bruno and Nick and Vasilis

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes

  • get the pdf of The Matrix of Convivial Technology – Assessing technologies for degrowth | Request PDF and share somewhere (forum, email) (Vasilis)
  • write collaboratively on the pad explaining how the design process went and our reflections (whomever wants) - - a pad to reflect on our design process - HedgeDoc
  • Ask Katie about the dissertation from Rakel and Sabina (Vasilis)
  • move current rocket chat to oldchat.karrot.world (nick)
  • look into rocketchat backups/export (nick)
  • redirect chat.karrot.world to matrix room (nick)
  • ask fabian/dominic if they would be interested to do code reviews (nick)
  • delist from upforgrabs (nick)
  • continue planning karrotjam (all)
    • write first draft of description/invitation (Vas, Bruno)

3. Discussion points

  • karrot jam → karrot days (we like it better)
    • invitation (1st draft):

Hello everyone! Older and newer members of Karrot, supporters and friends of all sorts, groups and individuals interested in collaborative and participatory forms of designing.

We invite you to join ‘Karrot days’, a week-long event which will take place virtually between --/02/2021 and --/02/2021. The aim of ‘Karrot days’ is to create an open, safe, hybrid and non-hierarchical environment, one within which we can meet each other, chill together, discuss, contemplate and dream together and collaborate to improve Karrot towards making it a digital tool that can better support existing communities of sharers and the development of new ones.

For those not familiar with Karrot, in short Karrot is a grassroots, non-hierarchical and self-organized software project. As a tool it is designed and sustained by some of its very own users. Karrot has been initially developed to support communities of foodsavers and foodsharers and it is currently redeveloped to support other types of communities that can benefit from the use of technology. You can read more about Karrot here:…

Expressing your interest to participate in advance would be really helpful in order to better organize ‘Karrot days’.

If you are interested to join please fill the following form: (link)

P.S.1 There are no prerequisites for joining ‘Karrot days’. Everyone who believes in the values of sharing and collectively shaping a ‘people over markets’ internet is more than welcome to join!

P.S.2 If you want to propose an idea, share some ‘Karrot days’ thoughts, ask a question etc you can contact either @Vasilis or @Bruno who wrote this invitation together.

  • can we be more straitfoward at the beginning? Focus a bit more on the activities we would like to organise around Karrot as a tool?

    • a mini version and a longer text as well
    • different audiences? would it be a good strategy to break down an invitation for different audiences?
      • people who use it and more-or-less aware of it
      • wider audience, maybe activists or academics, or general interest in platforms
      • tech/developer perspective who might go for tech details
    • for the activities we agreen on three tracks/headings: dreaming/conseptualizing/doing
  • No updates from NLnet? Should we sent an e-mail? Yes

  • Next steps for 'Karrot days/Karrot jam’Karrot Days - HedgeDoc

    • invitation text (2-3 versions)
    • activities (3 categories)
      • we can think in blue skies at for now
  • design input from Tim

  • Interviewing people from differnet Karrot groups? Could this be a valuabe input for the hackathon? Or could we get these kind of data during the hackathon?

    • tell us a bit around Karrot, ideas, concerns, what you might get out of…
    • let’s jot down few questions
    • think of the process: how will we ciculate this ‘questionnare’
    • do we need a @karrot email?
  • collaborative music sessions for karrot days? (yes, we can try this out)

4. Actions/Outcomes

  • write collaboratively on the pad explaining how the design process went and our reflections (whomever wants) - - a pad to reflect on our design process - HedgeDoc
  • move current rocket chat to oldchat.karrot.world (nick)
  • look into rocketchat backups/export (nick)
  • redirect chat.karrot.world to matrix room (nick)
  • ask fabian/dominic if they would be interested to do code reviews (nick)
  • put ideas uderneath dreaming/conseptualizing/doing → Karrot Days - HedgeDoc (All)
  • send an e-mail to Nlnet (Nick)
  • setup karrotdays@karrot.world to go to a community forum private group with us in it (Nick)
  • set up a simple ‘questionaire’ via which we can gain some insights from various groups on Karrot (Vasilis)

5. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week (we forgot to do that)
  • checkout

6. Next

Next meeting: 2021-12-14 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-12-21 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Vasilis, Bruno

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration: ~1.5h from now
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes

  • write collaboratively on the pad explaining how the design process went and our reflections (whomever wants) - - a pad to reflect on our design process - HedgeDoc
  • move current rocket chat to oldchat.karrot.world (nick)
  • look into rocketchat backups/export (nick)
  • redirect chat.karrot.world to matrix room (nick)
  • ask fabian/dominic if they would be interested to do code reviews (nick)
  • put ideas underneath dreaming/conseptualizing/doing → Karrot Days - HedgeDoc (All)
  • send an e-mail to Nlnet (Nick)
  • setup karrotdays@karrot.world to go to a community forum private group with us in it (Nick)
  • set up a simple ‘questionaire’ via which we can gain some insights from various groups on Karrot (Vasilis)

3. Discussion points

  • philosophical discussion about lots of stuff :slight_smile:
  • work on the plan for NLnet’s Memorandum of Understanding: Draft of milestones to Nlnets MoU - HedgeDoc
    • our interests of what to focus on in 9 months:

      • Bruno
        • features are nice, but maybe capacity is limited?
        • roles feature is already underway so maybe good?
        • softer sanctions, less priority?
        • agreements feature could be good
        • a lot to accomplish on other non-feature/tech categories
        • minimal design process for breaking the silo
        • karrot days
          • is documenting it sufficient for their milestone?
          • open sourcing the methodology?
          • a tool other communities can use
          • how we organise the playlists/days/tools
          • also woven into the wider community-design topic?
          • co-designing
        • contribution priorities in time frame?
          • breaking the silo design process (short!)
            • deliverable on design procss itself
            • minimal feature we can put out there
      • Vasilis
        • malleable tools can be one of the main focuses, quite a lot there
        • can contribute to the discussions behind that
        • sharing public information about groups (which can fit under the malleable tools/community build part)
        • want to push forward interviews/questionnaire parts
          • we don’t know so much what goes on in groups using karrot!
          • start talking more with people that use karrot
          • steward this process, “what is karrot for them?”
          • supports us to understand all feature development too
        • hackathon/karrotdays
          • a workshop to make a board, interactive open space to think what they would like to do with the software, sharing/reflect about ideas
        • time/skills
          • can’t fully commit for next 8 months, due to phd :slight_smile:
        • which deliverables to priotitized?
          • catgeory 1 and 2 in particular
          • aware of development burden, so if we can get more
          • also designing the features
            • idea to have more formalized process for exporing features, before a developer starts building them
              • people identifying needs in their group… and where to go from there… boost participation and bring agency
      • Nick
        • wants to do more software development than he’s been doing
        • needs support in terms of clarity of what do to and financial support
        • he could do more work
          • also wary of dominating too much he’s putting to much work and thought on it
          • would like to see other people participating, also in development
        • need to discuss the money issue and how it should be redistributed
        • roles feature is advanced and wants to get done
          • should be developed in a iterative way: implement something, get feedback and re-do it
        • agreements feature seems like a good thing to work on
          • probably with the help of another developer
        • interested in boosting participation and contribuition experience
          • frontend documentation
          • migration stuff on the way - VueJs and Quasar
            • let’s see if others who started working on that want to continue. Needs to be done anyhow
        • make Karrot easier to self-host, to customize the landing page
        • maybe make groups discoverable across instances, but needs more design thinking
    • we agree in general that we should actively start involving more people

  • badges/roles/participant types
  • interviews/questionnaire

4. Actions/Outcomes

  • ask on karrot mastodon to see if any developers want to join (nick)
  • contact existing devs (nick)
  • setup karrotdays@karrot.world to go to a community forum private group with us in it (Nick)
  • break down milestones (all)
  • interviews/discussions/questionnaire (vasilis)

5. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

6. Next

Next meeting: 2021-12-28 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2021-12-28 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Vasilis
Participants: Nick, Bruno

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration: ~1.5h from now
  • checkin
    • everyone is a bit sleepy (!)
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
    • github feed in element/matrix
    • various tech update things

2. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes

  • ask on karrot mastodon to see if any developers want to join (nick)
  • contact existing devs (nick)
  • setup karrotdays@karrot.world to go to a community forum private group with us in it (Nick)
  • break down milestones (all)
  • interviews/discussions/questionnaire (vasilis)

3. Discussion points

  • how to unload Nick
    • throw $$$$$ at him
    • smoke a joint
    • start another yunity hype and gather a bunch of people who have no idea what they’re doing
    • turn Karrot into a startup and look for an angel investor
  • Maybe we can take some inspiration from Design | Social Coding for the design process
    • have another talk with people from Bonfire, and also Arnold
    • maybe coding is not the right word?
  • activity roles, badges, permissions, etc.
    • Applicant trial pickup proposal
    • what’s enough for now?
    • outcomes of discussion:
      • get rid of “Type name”
      • change “member” to “anyone”
      • change “Require role” to “Limit to”
      • add a little info
  • NLnet MoU
    • Draft of milestones to Nlnets MoU - HedgeDoc
    • vasilis has tried to combine milestone/categories 3 and 4 into 1 and 2 to unify it more
    • do we have a deadline for it? no, but should do it soon…
    • more we spend time planning, less time for work
    • if more “external” people are working, we can distribute our existing money, as nlnet money is only distributed after the task is done
  • ‘Karrot days’
  • community cafes?
  • a stream!

4. Actions/Outcomes

  • vasilis books a vacation (vasilis)
  • thursday evening 20:30 central europe to do MoU co-working (all)

5. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

6. Next

Next meeting: 2022-01-04 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

(We skipped the meeting on the 2022-01-04 12:00 as the timing wasn’t good for people)

Date: 2022-01-11 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Vasilis

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration: 2h max / 1.5h pref
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)

2. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes

  • vasilis books a vacation (vasilis)
  • thursday evening 20:30 central europe to do MoU co-working (all)

3. Discussion points

  • nlnet MoU
    • final round to check our draft info
  • karrot days
    • need to publish/promote/define this a bit more now!
    • Nathalie wrote some ideas in the matrix chat
      • “meet the team / get involved” session
      • offer to do a session about sociocracy…
      • “community cafe”?
      • can we get some groups to present about what they do? + how they use karrot?
        • is one who presentation per group too much?
        • pechakua?
        • lightning talks?
      • a way to bring people (particulary/only? devs) to work on some nlnet milestones?
      • finalising dates? next month!
        • do we have motivation and energy to push it forward
        • is 7 days too long?
        • or postpone it a bit?
      • maybe 3 audience focuses, and we should decide a bit more?
        • external people?
        • people in groups?
        • people already in the team
      • maybe it like a flexible open call?
        • loose dates
        • the sessions we can already imagine
        • then, if we get like 5 sessions, just have it over a weekend
        • could work like this:
          • writing a more concrete forum post
          • ping a few people we might think might get involved
            • e.g. are you interested in x session?
  • webinar on funding transparency

4. Actions/Outcomes

  • add Bruno/Vas into “Let’s tell stories” matrix room (nick)
  • push forward with questionairre/survey for understanding groups (vas)
  • put the draft MoU stuff from the pad into the template (nick)
  • send document to Jos as soon as ready, and share on forum (nick)
  • write/draft a forum post for karrot days (bruno, or others)

5. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

6. Next

Next meeting: 2022-01-18 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2022-01-18 12:00 (UTC+1)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Vasilis, Nick

1. Check in and Updates

  • agree duration 1h30
  • checkin
  • Add updates/celebrations here (if you have any)
    • @mentions

2. Review last weeks Actions/Outcomes

  • add Bruno/Vas into “Let’s tell stories” matrix room (nick)
  • push forward with questionairre/survey for understanding groups (vas)
  • put the draft MoU stuff from the pad into the template (nick)
  • send document to Jos as soon as ready, and share on forum (nick)
  • write/draft a forum post for karrot days (bruno, or others)

3. Discussion points

  • free flowing discussion about permaculture
    • more about food growing or something bigger? permaculture software?
    • individualized or collective
    • would be interesting to see if Karrot could support whatever group doing permaculture
  • free flowing discussion about fair coop / faircoin / etc.
  • questionaire/survey discussion
  • webinar thing
  • last details MoU
    • we put all three names as contributors
    • Nick is the main contact
    • we’ll see their feedback about the amount exceeding 20k
  • Karrot days
    • what will be the confirmed sessions?
      • should we make a poll to check people’s interest?
    • date? 26-27 Feb
    • who should we ping? (take a look at the most active on the forum)
    • more ideas for sessions:
      • de-foodifying Karrot, bring in people working in other initiatives, like makerspace, and work with scenarios on how Karrot would fit (or not) their activities, and what kind of tool(s) the community needs
        • would it be an interesting workshop also for the people of Bonfire?
      • jotted down more at Karrot Days - HedgeDoc
  • proceedings for intake and redistribution of money within Karrot
    • it’s convenient that NLnet pays directly to contributors as donations, but we don’t want to make a strict connection between milestones and payments
    • Nick is ok about using the Karrot account which is technically his, and give access to other people in the core team
    • if it passes the tax threshold, we could also consider using other personal accounts
    • opencollective? (downside: payment provider fee - Stripe)
    • we’ll discuss more calmly and with time on how to do the distribution
    • solidarity fund: one idea for long-term financial sustainability
    • how to recognize values and contributions that are usually not recognized and how to support people

4. Actions/Outcomes

  • start working on the questionaire and send the first draft to Bruno for comments (Vas)
  • contact the free shop group in Gothenburg (Bruno)
  • Finish the invitation to Karrot days and post (Bruno, Vasilis)
  • send draft MoU to Jos (nick)
  • resolve webinar question (nick)

5. Closing Ceremony

  • pick facilitator for next week
  • checkout

6. Next

Next meeting: 2022-01-25 12:00 (UTC+1)
Next facilitator: Vasilitator
Where: Jitsi Meet