“To promote broader participation from design practitioners, and community activists, we offer the option of submitting alternative material in the form of a design portfolio, a short manifesto, or the like.”
performance optimations are one goal, reducing unintuitive behavior of Karrot the other
this change would introduce a new loophole: the person who has a conflict resolution ongoing against themselves could accept a lot of fake users in the group and fake the vote with it
we can ignore this until it happens, because it would be quite obvious and we can revert this using admin superpowers…
we could also make it so that people who have been added to a group after a conflict resolution has started cannot vote or join the conversation of this specific case - this is more work though
another co-working session on monday afternoon 13:00 - 16:00?
Tilmann thought it was quite nice, so let’s do it again!
Bruno would like to join but Monday doesn’t fit him - Nick suggests to have two in the week
Screencast
Bruno got a bit stuck, Tais has loads to do with her thesis
we hope for the next wave of motivation/time to come soon!
Matthias coded a new feature for Nathalie’s birthday:
the living utopia instance of big blue button integrated inside foodsharing!
It’s not completely inside, meaning it opens in a new tab and doesn’t have the same look, but it takes your username from foodsharing and there is a specific room linked in every district
Bruno is happy for people to review and change stuff - even if considerably!
Start planning a community design process for governance features? (Bruno)
Let’s set an approximate date for a kick-off call that also includes the update about foodsharing governance struggles.
It’s meant to get the discussion going about conflict resolution with input from Janina, Nathalie and Bruno, and then use the momentum to teaser the design process.
Janina will check with Nathalie for a good (approximate) time.
Image upload (Nick) + community engagement
Nick has a PR in backend and frontend as WIP. Backend is implemented, frontend needs more work but some user input would be nice.
Will wait some weeks and then incorporate any potential wishes. If there are none it’s also fine, community engagement takes some time. But it’s worth it!
Community forum integration in Karrot could be made more prominent again. Different ideas how it could look like.
Important to keep the channel open and make it possible for users to form an opinion early on. Cause if they complain afterwards we won’t always undo features and such.
Idea: Release thread on the forum. Like a changelog in natural language.
check-out
money call
2. Actions/Outcomes
set an approximate date for conflict resolution call
make a thread on the community forum for releases
3. Next
Next meeting: 2020-08-02 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet
played around with design ideas to display the member count on top of the member list
Bruno suggests to put a chat bubble for each member there as well, Janina is not a fan of too many buttons there, Tilmann says the karrot buttons could also go away as it makes the list very slow to load
Bruno reminds of the open issue to potentially remove the group invite feature as it makes it possible to smuggle people into a group without going through the application process
Janina points out that it could be cool to have the possibility to sort members by karrot count
another idea is to display active members in groups of editors, members and newbies
a complete redesign of the member list could be useful at some point…
Promotion and headhunting
more people on the team would be great - but how to get them?
mastodon seems to be our best shot so far; there is some engagement so we just keep it going
Janina will have a call with Big Belly Taiwan to tell them how foodsharing works in Germany
Solikyl using places on Karrot for discussion (Bruno)
Karrot doesn’t have much space for casual chatting, so chatting places are talked about: one for random, one for board and one for managing applications
the places are marked with ‘[+]’ prefixing the name
so far only the board place was created but others will follow
still early to evaluate how it works, Bruno will keep us posted
Connectors between Karrot team and specific groups
enhance personal contact, formalize what’s already happening and create connections where they are missing
everybody present can imagine taking over some contacts
Nick is interested in pursuing this more when he is back in Göttingen
Tilmann made backend dependency upgrades work again; also had a look at automatically marking wall messages as read
Tilmann wonders if the wall message marking is important enough to put a lot of time in solving this
there are some issues because of the two different possible reading patterns
messaging generally is complex, Tilmann would have rather never implemented it; Nick points out that it’s the feature everything is about in the end - but now it’s too late anyway since we already have it
Tilmann doesn’t like to work on the conversations, he finds it frustrating because it still doesn’t work properly and he gets the feeling that he will never get it to a satisfactory state
Nick and Bruno suggest to identify smaller issues, maybe get more feedback from the community about what actually is annoying or missing - that way it could also feel more motivating because there’s an immediate user need
Hi Tillman.
yes, if i get everything right, we can join the https://meet.jit.si/karrot at sunday 08-16 17:00 (UTC+2)
As we’ve never used the software: do i need to sign up or something?
Thank you
That’s right.
You just need to open the link in a browser, no signup necessary. It will use your computer’s microphone and speakers, so you might want to make sure they work
update with Fausto about what’s happening in Quito, Ecuador
There is foodsharing Quito, but Karrot is not used much to organize it. People rather just go to the store and do the pickup.
Foodsharing Quito does have official cooperations, even though some have stopped due to covid.
Karrot (the old foodsaving group) is used more for a new urban gardening project.
Another idea (dreaming stage): Use Karrot to connect and distribute free sleeping spots.
Right now foodsaving and other things happen in the same group and Fausto prefers it like this to not have everything separated.
Bruno and Nick recommend to switch that group over to the general purpose theme, then people can try it out and see if it makes more sense.
Fausto looks at MLH Local Hack Day group on dev.karrot.world and agrees that the general purpose theme fits better. Nick will switch the foodsharing Quito group over.
Could be cool to have the general purpose theme translatable - in this case to Spanish. But for now it’s not that importan since only a handful of people use the Karrot group anyway.
Fausto unfortunately got connection problems and left.
schedule co-working
check-out
2. Actions/Outcomes
co-working on Thursday 3 pm, and potentially more spontaneous dates
everybody go through previous roadmap meeting: Roadmap meeting
3. Next
Next meeting: 2020-08-23 11:00 (UTC+2), followed by roadmap
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet
image upload is live, Bruno immediately informed the bike kitchen people
they asked about the limits of picture size
Nick wants to improve that at some point because the square crop really doesn’t work for graphics with text and/or detailed information. This may take a while though.
PWA, offline features and quasar cli
Tilmann went on a bit of a journey:
first he wanted to build something that would let you open the camera from within the app to directly take a photo and not only have the option to choose one from the gallery
he found that it would be cool to progress in the direction of PWA instead of having an extra app, because than we could also use more things from libraries of the webapp
quasar cli bundles all the fancy features from the webapp
Bruno asks if having a PWA would make the app superfluous, Tilmann says yes
Nick points out that PWAs can’t go in the play store but TWAs can - it’s a different kind of wrapper, this time from google
is the app even used to much? Bruno has the impression that people use Karrot more in the browser anyways
iphone
the topic just came up when talking about the previous one
grafana shows that the most used os are iphone and android comined
Janina says that we should maybe finally ask in the community if someone wants to gift us their older iphone in case they plan on getting a new one so that we can do testing with it
Bruno thinks it’s a great idea even though he didn’t get any complainty anymore
Tilmann would just hope that safari improves and that all the iphone problems go away magically because he’s really tired of fixing frontend bugs
playground and signing up
people are often confused to end up in the playground group after signing up, Bruno had recent examples again
the plan is to make playground a closed group, there are already prs in the pipeline
newly signed up users would then not be added to the playground group anymore but directed to the group gallery
it would be cool to guide them more to groups which might be interesting to them, maybe based of geolocation?
the tab in which the signup happens often already knows the group people want to apply to, but after signup a new tab opens and that doesn’t have the information anymore - this might be the main flaw in the signup flow
Tilmann suggests that it might be time for some kind of backend store
Nick likes the idea of using geolocation to show likely relevant groups more prominently
sorting in the group gallery divided in the two categories ‘nearby’ and ‘rest of the world’
it’s a local buying and selling thing, so it might explain the people looking for car offers in the playground group
name conflict? trademark? who knows!
Foodsharing groups in Sweden
other groups using places in more general purpose ways (meetings, drop-offs, fridge cleaning), like other groups have been doing
bought foodsharing.se! what to do with it? maybe run karrot on it and migrate all the swedish groups to it?
a simple info page seems a good idea for now
open questions: do we want to split the swedish groups by topic and have them on different domains? do we want to isolate sweden in the way that it’s on their own instance and not really connected to foodsharing groups in other countries?
More on governance
very nice call, but was expecting a few more groups to participate
was hopefully going to lead into design process
challenge to get people comitted, how to get people to participate in a whole design process then?
how to motivate more connections/exchanges between foodsharing groups? foodsharing.de groups have been talking about some of it!
possiblity to create “foodsharing sweden exchange” (for example)
but perhaps having more open/public communication outreach
within Gothenburg group, wondering how to avoid hierarchies, and maybe with more specific roles, working on defining store co-ordinator role but concerned how to avoid creating power roles, but important to create a contact person for the store, or guidance for doing pickups
seems important to make it really clear what this role is: rights and duties, and things you cannot do (so people can complain about those things)
Date: 2020-09-20 12:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Tilmann, Janina, Nick
1. Agenda
check-in
NordiCHI new channel + money stuff
October 26th
we’re quite unclear exactly what is involved
fees are a big barrier to participation as we don’t have income
custom activity types, name for “pickup”, recap?
type names would not be translatable
issue of templates + existing groups
idea to keep translations for common names, when you create a group you can choose one of those “suggested” names, which then gets copied in as the name
idea to detirmine the language of the group (manually, by checking the wall, or automatically by looking at the most common language of the users in that group)
the concept is we’re relaxing the concept of all groups having a centralized concept of a “pickup”, but now we’re moving to custom names, so the complexity comes with the transition
idea to maintain a standard set of activity types in the translation system that can be used if they want, OR they can use a free text field for the type
lingering question on how to implement these predefined-types, just in translation files, or more deeply in code, or something, and how it relates to how the group templates would be defined
thinking of groups that might benefit from this work to get involved more, toy library would be a candidate, slowly moving towards possibly adopting an organising tool
existing uses for custom activities are meetings, distributing events
another idea, the predefined names are only used for the purpose of migrating existing groups, new groups would have to define them
production deployment
most of the special handling of the playground group removed
otherwise not many noticeable changes
hold off to fix small issue with app relating to migrating to quasar app
need a bit more testing of dev PWA app, in particular push notifications
TWA stuff
way from google to get the PWA into the play store to replace the cordova app
tool available for apk building (bubble wrap), but seems a bit heavy/confusing
the web part and app part need to declare things about how they relate to each other, so need to be built together (currently we build seperately), or somehow solve it otherwise
initial POC TWA was created, but still WIP FYI YMMV IIRC, (USB cable missing from SOFA)
we don’t currently have older android devices, but maybe some people around kanthaus do
tilmann has some motivation to continue on this!
some confusion around the connection between the web browser version, installed PWA, and TWA based on the PWA… some handling seems available if level-10 PWA master level is achieved
query about how google-dependent we become? some support from apple for PWAs
“pwabuilder” can make an xcode project, wondering if we can use this, then build the project in circleci? (as we got access to apple ci containers previously iirc)
topic: people grow chili plants together, join a telegram group and start communicating
takeaway: creating this connection leads to a much wider interaction between the people involved, they start sharing other stuff and tips and form a bond which can lead to a major shift in society as a whole if done in many places
takeaway for karrot: how to lower the threshold for people to participate?
old tradeoff between common/widespread platforms (people already have them) and specialized platforms (much more refined features)
really motivated core-type people will go for the specialized thing, but how to lure in the more peripheral people who only want to participate casually? could a somewhat related telegram group help?
vague ponderings relating to the “one straw revolution” book I just read
check-out
2. Actions/Outcomes
Tilmann will continue with TWA
3. Next
Next meeting: 2020-09-27 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: Jitsi Meet
