Weekly call about Karrot development 2020

Date: 2020-06-21 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Janina
Participants: Tilmann, Janina, Nick, Bruno, Valentin

1. Agenda

  • checkins
  • pickups to activities
    • just on the frontend code, ignoring the translation strings, no user-facing change for now
    • Nick started on Monday and Tilmann merged it on Saturday
    • vision for future of activities:
      • just omit the specific word for the type of activity in the strings
      • make it so that you just specify the type of activity in one location and not in tons of translation strings and such
      • requires us to be a bit more creative, maybe even have less sentences and clearer contexts
      • there could be different types of activities in one group, with ‘activities’ as a parent category
      • at some point we could even have custom activity types
      • short mention of difficulty to find balance between too much and too little general applicability in software
      • this topic is also a candidate for a design sprint
  • community design process
    • the team is Nick and Bruno now, which is fine. there’s a very good energy and a really clear scope.
    • they chat each Wednesday now to further the process
    • if this rhythm persist it will take 3-4 more weeks until we can try it out
    • Nick seeded the idea in the community forum a week ago
    • hopefully some people will be interested to participate (Karolina? Dan? Solikyl ppl?)
    • there will also be a spot to include input from experts - that could be fitting for people like Doug
    • the process is meant to be highly adaptive so that it can also be used in different settings and projects (like foodsharing… ;))
  • (S)HCI conference NordiCHI
  • open issues to newcomers Allow all members to see and participate in conflict resolution · Issue #2062 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub
    • Tilmann started this just yesterday
    • performance optimations are one goal, reducing unintuitive behavior of Karrot the other
    • this change would introduce a new loophole: the person who has a conflict resolution ongoing against themselves could accept a lot of fake users in the group and fake the vote with it
      • we can ignore this until it happens, because it would be quite obvious and we can revert this using admin superpowers…
      • we could also make it so that people who have been added to a group after a conflict resolution has started cannot vote or join the conversation of this specific case - this is more work though
  • another co-working session on monday afternoon 13:00 - 16:00?
    • Tilmann thought it was quite nice, so let’s do it again!
    • Bruno would like to join but Monday doesn’t fit him - Nick suggests to have two in the week
  • Screencast
    • Bruno got a bit stuck, Tais has loads to do with her thesis
    • we hope for the next wave of motivation/time to come soon! :slight_smile:
  • Anecdote from foodsharing.de
    • Matthias coded a new feature for Nathalie’s birthday:
    • the living utopia instance of big blue button integrated inside foodsharing!
    • It’s not completely inside, meaning it opens in a new tab and doesn’t have the same look, but it takes your username from foodsharing and there is a specific room linked in every district
    • Janina finds out how we can use it next week! :smiley:
  • checkout

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • create a Karrot channel at living utopia’s BBB?
  • write email to SHCI conference to find out more
  • co-working => Monday 13:00 - 16:00 and Thursday 10:00 - 13:00 in the ecotopia mumble! (Mumble setup - Ecotopia Biketour Wiki)

3. Next

Next week there is the money call following the normal one!

Next meeting: 2020-06-28 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: Jitsi Meet (or we try BBB?)

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Date: 2020-06-28 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Bruno, Janina, Tilmann

1. Agenda

  • checkins
  • image rotation for offers (Nick)
  • renaming to activities (Nick)
  • community design process update (Nick/Bruno)
    • the diagram gets filled more and more
    • when it’s filled with good content it could be cool to make it look beautiful so that it’s more inspiring
    • we’re still thinking about good test cases for the process
      • there needs to be some level of complexity
      • a bunch of people participating
      • not too much emotional charge
  • foodsharing rule violations handling (Janina)
    • when you report a user, it goes to a central report place
    • not clear whether it gets passed on to more local people to handle it
    • not make ambassdors too all powerful vs respecting they have a very important role
    • helping vs controlling districts, how centralized should it be?
    • power in districts or in central place?
  • little bug? Playground-string “translated” on notifications (Bruno)
    • we couldn’t detirmine if/where it’s happening :confused:
    • some discussion about whether it’s useful to have “Playground” translated at all
  • checkout

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Next design sprint process session: Wednesday 11am - 12pm (UTC+2)
  • Next co-working session(s):
    • Thursday 11am+
  • Try and schedule a shared call about rule violation stuff? (August?)

3. Next

Money call now!

Next meeting: 2020-07-05 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-07-05 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Nick

1. Agenda

2. Actions/Outcomes

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-07-12 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-07-12 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator:
Participants: Nick, Tilmann

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • pickups to activities merged felt good
    • Nick ran all migrations successfully for dev.karrot.world
    • one translation on the backend was wrongly changed to ‘activities’, should change it back
  • using self-hosted weblate might give us more flexibility in handling translations
    • translation memory on free transifex is a bit limited, can’t delete entries
  • positive feedback via email about blog post regarding postal setup for Karrot
  • project email setup via Discourse seems to work fine so far, still has some problems
    • forwarded email content is not visible → can we disable the email reply parser?
    • which email address was it sent to? → maybe we can add some more context in our custom plugin?
  • activity reminders merged!
    • seem to work fine on dev.karrot.world

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • reply to emails! (Nick, Tilmann)
  • look into installing weblate at weblate.karrot.world (Nick)

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-07-19 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Tilmann
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-07-19 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Janina, Tilmann, Nick, Bruno

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • update about reworking the report system in foodsharing
  • conflict resolution in Göteborg
    • maybe have more screen space for conflict resolution discussion?
    • idea to have issue processes for more things than just kicking people out came up again, e.g. target issues to places or pickup series
    • Göteborg is thinking about becoming more federated → dreaming of umbrella group
  • another co-working session?
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • co-working on Monday 4-7pm

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-07-26 11:00 (UTC+2) with money call afterwards
Next facilitator: Janina
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-07-26 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Janina
Participants: Janina, Bruno, Nick, Tilmann

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • Finished (?) PR on switch groups at topbar Change groups at topbar home icon by brnsolikyl · Pull Request #2072 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub (Bruno)
    • Bruno is happy for people to review and change stuff - even if considerably!
  • Start planning a community design process for governance features? (Bruno)
    • Let’s set an approximate date for a kick-off call that also includes the update about foodsharing governance struggles.
    • It’s meant to get the discussion going about conflict resolution with input from Janina, Nathalie and Bruno, and then use the momentum to teaser the design process.
    • Janina will check with Nathalie for a good (approximate) time.
  • Image upload (Nick) + community engagement
    • Nick has a PR in backend and frontend as WIP. Backend is implemented, frontend needs more work but some user input would be nice.
    • Will wait some weeks and then incorporate any potential wishes. If there are none it’s also fine, community engagement takes some time. But it’s worth it!
    • Community forum integration in Karrot could be made more prominent again. Different ideas how it could look like.
    • Important to keep the channel open and make it possible for users to form an opinion early on. Cause if they complain afterwards we won’t always undo features and such.
    • Idea: Release thread on the forum. Like a changelog in natural language.
  • check-out
  • money call

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • set an approximate date for conflict resolution call
  • make a thread on the community forum for releases

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-02 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-08-02 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Nick, Philip (for a bit), Tilmann, Janina, Mika (only for a tiny bit)

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • governance call with fs + international people
  • NordiCHI thing
  • top bar group select review
  • incoming emails
  • co-working session?
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Janina will talk again to Nathalie to see times that would work for the call
  • Co-working session Tuesday 12:00 (UTC+2)

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-09 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Janina
Where: Jitsi Meet

Hi Janina, wed love to join for rhe netx meeting, but we just realized its tomorrow!! our time!!

We cant make it this time, but we are waiting for your next post with the date for the next meeting, and sure we can be up 3am :wink:

Fausto - Andrea / UIO

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Sounds great! We decided to shift the weekly call next week to 5pm UTC+2, to make it easier for you to join in. Does it fit you?

Date: 2020-08-09 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Janina
Participants: Janina, Tilmann, Nick, Bruno

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • co-working on last Thursday outcomes:
    • Nathalie was there
    • community call about conflict resolution and decision making will happen beginning of September, time poll is running right now
    • Bruno shared the community design sprint docs, because Janina is thinking of using it in foodsharing
    • Janina had a look at Add location-based overview page · Issue #1704 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub again and came to realize that the original idea is not the best, but that there are other solutions mentioned as well. Will make a wireframe.
  • Member List
    • Janina opened VSC for the first time in months :tada:
    • played around with design ideas to display the member count on top of the member list
    • Bruno suggests to put a chat bubble for each member there as well, Janina is not a fan of too many buttons there, Tilmann says the karrot buttons could also go away as it makes the list very slow to load
    • Bruno reminds of the open issue to potentially remove the group invite feature as it makes it possible to smuggle people into a group without going through the application process
    • Janina points out that it could be cool to have the possibility to sort members by karrot count
    • another idea is to display active members in groups of editors, members and newbies
    • a complete redesign of the member list could be useful at some point…
  • Promotion and headhunting
    • more people on the team would be great - but how to get them?
    • mastodon seems to be our best shot so far; there is some engagement so we just keep it going
    • can be found here: Karrot (@karrot@fosstodon.org) - Fosstodon
  • Janina will have a call with Big Belly Taiwan to tell them how foodsharing works in Germany
  • Solikyl using places on Karrot for discussion (Bruno)
    • Karrot doesn’t have much space for casual chatting, so chatting places are talked about: one for random, one for board and one for managing applications
    • the places are marked with ‘[+]’ prefixing the name
    • so far only the board place was created but others will follow
    • still early to evaluate how it works, Bruno will keep us posted
  • Connectors between Karrot team and specific groups
    • enhance personal contact, formalize what’s already happening and create connections where they are missing
    • everybody present can imagine taking over some contacts
    • Nick is interested in pursuing this more when he is back in Göttingen
  • Tilmann made backend dependency upgrades work again; also had a look at automatically marking wall messages as read
    • Tilmann wonders if the wall message marking is important enough to put a lot of time in solving this
    • there are some issues because of the two different possible reading patterns
    • messaging generally is complex, Tilmann would have rather never implemented it; Nick points out that it’s the feature everything is about in the end - but now it’s too late anyway since we already have it
    • Tilmann doesn’t like to work on the conversations, he finds it frustrating because it still doesn’t work properly and he gets the feeling that he will never get it to a satisfactory state
    • Nick and Bruno suggest to identify smaller issues, maybe get more feedback from the community about what actually is annoying or missing - that way it could also feel more motivating because there’s an immediate user need
  • People from UIO want to join the next weekly call: Weekly call about Karrot development 2019 - #67
    • it’s very early for them (3am local time); we could offer them to have the call later, e.g. 5pm UTC+2?
    • agreed
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • add Karrot (@karrot@fosstodon.org) - Fosstodon to Karrot about page (Tilmann)
  • maybe have a look at Bruno’s Pull Request (Tilmann)
  • Bruno will apply to the Swedish groups as a contact person for the Karrot team
  • co-working Thursday 10:00 (UTC+2)

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-16 17:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: Jitsi Meet

Hi Tillman.
yes, if i get everything right, we can join the https://meet.jit.si/karrot at sunday 08-16 17:00 (UTC+2)
As we’ve never used the software: do i need to sign up or something?
Thank you

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That’s right.
You just need to open the link in a browser, no signup necessary. It will use your computer’s microphone and speakers, so you might want to make sure they work :slight_smile:

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@ConexionUtopia if you have any specific points to add to the agenda in advance you can add them to this pad Weekly call about Karrot development - pad - HedgeDoc - but we can also freestyle if you prefer :wink:

Ping @ConexionUtopia - we started the call already, so join if you’re able to! → Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-08-16 17:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Nick, Tilmann, Janina, Bruno, Fausto

1. Agenda

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • co-working on Thursday 3 pm, and potentially more spontaneous dates
  • everybody go through previous roadmap meeting: Roadmap meeting

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-23 11:00 (UTC+2), followed by roadmap
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-08-23 17:00 (UTC+2), followed by roadmap
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Janina, Tilmann, Nick

1. Agenda

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Plan Metagov seminar Tuesday evening on/after 7pm
  • Quick planning online on a pad about the Foodsharing governance call

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-08-30 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator:
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-08-30 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Tilmann, Janina, Nick, Bruno

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • production release!
    • image upload is live, Bruno immediately informed the bike kitchen people
    • they asked about the limits of picture size
    • Nick wants to improve that at some point because the square crop really doesn’t work for graphics with text and/or detailed information. This may take a while though.
  • PWA, offline features and quasar cli
    • Tilmann went on a bit of a journey:
    • first he wanted to build something that would let you open the camera from within the app to directly take a photo and not only have the option to choose one from the gallery
    • he found that it would be cool to progress in the direction of PWA instead of having an extra app, because than we could also use more things from libraries of the webapp
    • quasar cli bundles all the fancy features from the webapp
    • Bruno asks if having a PWA would make the app superfluous, Tilmann says yes
    • Nick points out that PWAs can’t go in the play store but TWAs can - it’s a different kind of wrapper, this time from google
    • is the app even used to much? Bruno has the impression that people use Karrot more in the browser anyways
  • iphone
    • the topic just came up when talking about the previous one
    • grafana shows that the most used os are iphone and android comined
    • Janina says that we should maybe finally ask in the community if someone wants to gift us their older iphone in case they plan on getting a new one so that we can do testing with it
    • Bruno thinks it’s a great idea even though he didn’t get any complainty anymore
    • Tilmann would just hope that safari improves and that all the iphone problems go away magically because he’s really tired of fixing frontend bugs
  • playground and signing up
    • people are often confused to end up in the playground group after signing up, Bruno had recent examples again
    • the plan is to make playground a closed group, there are already prs in the pipeline
    • newly signed up users would then not be added to the playground group anymore but directed to the group gallery
    • it would be cool to guide them more to groups which might be interesting to them, maybe based of geolocation?
    • the tab in which the signup happens often already knows the group people want to apply to, but after signup a new tab opens and that doesn’t have the information anymore - this might be the main flaw in the signup flow
    • Tilmann suggests that it might be time for some kind of backend store
    • Nick likes the idea of using geolocation to show likely relevant groups more prominently
    • sorting in the group gallery divided in the two categories ‘nearby’ and ‘rest of the world’
  • NordiCHI
  • foodsharing call
    • next Thursday at 2 pm in BBB
  • check-out
  • payday call!

2. Actions/Outcomes

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-06 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: ?
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-09-06 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Nick
Participants: Tilmann, Janina, Bruno, Nick

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • Tilmann’s newest thing: PWA features
    • Switch to Quasar App by tiltec · Pull Request #2179 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub
    • pr should be ready but was not properly tested yet
    • ‘add to home screen’ button is the biggest user-facing change
    • push should still work, Tilmann rewrote it a bit
    • the goal is to have the mobile website work in the same way the app does - just without the bugs
    • Nick wants to review in the next few days, if he doesn’t get to it it should be merged to master just like that
  • the other Karrot
  • Foodsharing groups in Sweden
    • other groups using places in more general purpose ways (meetings, drop-offs, fridge cleaning), like other groups have been doing
    • bought foodsharing.se! what to do with it? maybe run karrot on it and migrate all the swedish groups to it?
    • a simple info page seems a good idea for now
    • open questions: do we want to split the swedish groups by topic and have them on different domains? do we want to isolate sweden in the way that it’s on their own instance and not really connected to foodsharing groups in other countries?
  • More on governance
    • very nice call, but was expecting a few more groups to participate
    • was hopefully going to lead into design process
    • challenge to get people comitted, how to get people to participate in a whole design process then?
    • how to motivate more connections/exchanges between foodsharing groups? foodsharing.de groups have been talking about some of it!
    • possiblity to create “foodsharing sweden exchange” (for example)
    • but perhaps having more open/public communication outreach
    • within Gothenburg group, wondering how to avoid hierarchies, and maybe with more specific roles, working on defining store co-ordinator role but concerned how to avoid creating power roles, but important to create a contact person for the store, or guidance for doing pickups
    • moving forward with design process
      • keep it minimal
      • use forum for co-ordinating/running it
      • have perhaps 3 people in core?
      • allow others to participate more randomly
      • also ask the experts is good point for asking
  • NordiCHI submission
    • deadline got moved to the 8th
    • left to do: finish up the critical issues section and finalize tho whole bit
    • Nick is happy to do the final polishing and submission part
    • Janina and Bruno will have another look at the critical issues, Philip doesn’t have any time
  • check-out
  • payday call, second try?

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Nick, Janina, and Bruno to complete NordiCHI submission
  • All: keep in mind progressing the design process for goverance (or other topics)
  • Nick to review Tilmanns PWA MR in the next few days

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-13 11:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Tilmann
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-09-13 11:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Tilmann
Participants: Bruno, Tilmann, Nick, Katie

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • submitted NordiCHI application
  • general Karrot direction
  • design process for governance features
    • anecdote from Gothenburg
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • co-working Tuesday 2 pm
  • merge some of the recent PRs

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-20 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Bruno
Where: Jitsi Meet

Date: 2020-09-20 12:00 (UTC+2)
Facilitator: Bruno
Participants: Bruno, Tilmann, Janina, Nick

1. Agenda

  • check-in
  • NordiCHI new channel + money stuff
    • October 26th
    • we’re quite unclear exactly what is involved
    • fees are a big barrier to participation as we don’t have income
  • custom activity types, name for “pickup”, recap?
    • type names would not be translatable
    • issue of templates + existing groups
    • idea to keep translations for common names, when you create a group you can choose one of those “suggested” names, which then gets copied in as the name
    • idea to detirmine the language of the group (manually, by checking the wall, or automatically by looking at the most common language of the users in that group)
    • the concept is we’re relaxing the concept of all groups having a centralized concept of a “pickup”, but now we’re moving to custom names, so the complexity comes with the transition
    • idea to maintain a standard set of activity types in the translation system that can be used if they want, OR they can use a free text field for the type
    • lingering question on how to implement these predefined-types, just in translation files, or more deeply in code, or something, and how it relates to how the group templates would be defined
    • thinking of groups that might benefit from this work to get involved more, toy library would be a candidate, slowly moving towards possibly adopting an organising tool
    • existing uses for custom activities are meetings, distributing events
    • another idea, the predefined names are only used for the purpose of migrating existing groups, new groups would have to define them
  • production deployment
    • most of the special handling of the playground group removed
    • otherwise not many noticeable changes
    • hold off to fix small issue with app relating to migrating to quasar app
    • need a bit more testing of dev PWA app, in particular push notifications
  • TWA stuff
    • way from google to get the PWA into the play store to replace the cordova app
    • tool available for apk building (bubble wrap), but seems a bit heavy/confusing
    • the web part and app part need to declare things about how they relate to each other, so need to be built together (currently we build seperately), or somehow solve it otherwise
    • initial POC TWA was created, but still WIP FYI YMMV IIRC, (USB cable missing from SOFA)
    • we don’t currently have older android devices, but maybe some people around kanthaus do
    • tilmann has some motivation to continue on this!
    • some confusion around the connection between the web browser version, installed PWA, and TWA based on the PWA… some handling seems available if level-10 PWA master level is achieved
    • query about how google-dependent we become? some support from apple for PWAs
    • “pwabuilder” can make an xcode project, wondering if we can use this, then build the project in circleci? (as we got access to apple ci containers previously iirc)
  • disappearing messages Typed text disappear when reloading · Issue #2192 · yunity/karrot-frontend · GitHub
  • a couple of reflections about Philips paper
    • topic: people grow chili plants together, join a telegram group and start communicating
    • takeaway: creating this connection leads to a much wider interaction between the people involved, they start sharing other stuff and tips and form a bond which can lead to a major shift in society as a whole if done in many places
    • takeaway for karrot: how to lower the threshold for people to participate?
    • old tradeoff between common/widespread platforms (people already have them) and specialized platforms (much more refined features)
    • really motivated core-type people will go for the specialized thing, but how to lure in the more peripheral people who only want to participate casually? could a somewhat related telegram group help?
  • vague ponderings relating to the “one straw revolution” book I just read
  • check-out

2. Actions/Outcomes

  • Tilmann will continue with TWA

3. Next

Next meeting: 2020-09-27 12:00 (UTC+2)
Next facilitator: Nick
Where: Jitsi Meet